UFC Tier System

[DLX]

I was listening to a Luke Thomas Podcast (Yea yea I know, inb4BetaCuck, ugotB3T4'D, etc...), and he was discussing the predicament that's going on in some of the divisions, most notably WW and LW, where you have a bunch of guys in the top 15 who have no scheduled fights (when healthy ofc). That being because there's a common theme of guys not wanting to fight lower ranked opponents once they get to the top. 3 doesn't want to fight 4 doesn't want to fight 5, and so on and so on.

So the fear is that if this continues, the UFC will start to turn into Boxing where the rankings are causing guys to over-stress about risk management rather than being active and building on their career. From a fighters perspective, it makes sense because the UFC gives you zero incentive to fight lower ranked opponents, and theres always far more of a risk than there is reward.

So instead of a linear numbered ranking system, what about having a certain about of fighters in a different tier class based on where they are in their careers, and the types of guys they will most likely be competing against? Separate each division into 5 tiers.

Tier 5 - The new comers who are early in their careers, or guys that are far past their prime and still hanging on or on the cusp of retirement.

Tier 4 - Guys that are on losing streaks and are about to be cut, guys that have been out for a long time and are just getting back into the fold

Tier 3 - High level prospects, The veteran gatekeepers of a weight class who probably will never challenge for a title.

Tier 2 - Guys that are on the cusp of achieving top contender status

Tier 1 - The Elite fighters and top contenders of a weight class

Edit: The tier rankings would PRIMARILY be skill based just like the regular rankings. This is just an outline as to where guys are based on where they're at in their careers.

There wouldn't have to be an exact set amount of guys in each tier in a respective weight class, so it's flexible based on where guys in their class are in relative to the division, as opposed to having a linear system that doesn't accurately represent the make-up of the division. So for example, in a stacked division like LW, you can have 10 or even 15 guys in Tier 1, whereas in LHW, you could have maybe 2 or 3 guys in tier 1. This also eliminates guys not fighting a lower ranked guy who may be dangerous, because he'll be in the same tier and a win of the guy will be beneficial for him. Someone may also skip tiers if their win is dominant enough.

Also, they could have incentives (Monetary perhaps) for guys to fight someone in a lower tier. Perhaps they'll get a certain increase in pay whether they win of lose the fight.



tldr: Replace the Linear ranking system with a more flexible Tier system so guys in the same tier don't have excuses not to fight someone because they're ranked below them. It may prevent divisions stalling from too many guys wanting to protect their careers.


Should the UFC go to this instead of rankings?

 

[MadDogMahoney]

It seems like an ok idea on paper. I feel like they alrdy do an informal version of this (but of course keep the rankings)

 

[LSU]

They already have that. It’s called 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 and everyone else.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

That is an interesting way of breaking it down.

I doubt the UFC would ever go to that format.

But it does seem that is how it currently works, just not officially.

WW, LW and MW seem to have the biggest issues with the top two tiers not fighting down a tier.

It really makes me admire Werdum who has taken risks to fight Walt Harris, Tybura and now Volkov.

Also Cowboy for fighting Yancy and Till.

If we had tournaments every once in a while it would really help straighten things out and create stars. Everyone would have a chance to shoot to the top in a tournament and they are always exciting.

 

[ninja boot]

the problem is the ufc would get greedy and go off the charts with a quick tier 4 vs tier 1 money fight right off the bat.

 

[DLX]

They already have that. It’s called 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 and everyone else.

Yea, but the problem is there's starting to be too many guys looking at where they are and not wanting to fight anyone ranked lower than them. With the linear nature of a ranking system, SOMEONE will always have to bite the bullet, whether its 2 vs 5, 4 vs 7, 9 vs 15. The lower guys have to eventually move up by fighting someone of a higher level, and that becomes impossible when the higher ranked guys are declining to fight them.

With this system, however, that problem is essentially eliminated when you could just put the new and lesser known but highly skilled guys in the same tier with people who are at the top of the division. That way, the new guy can position himself easier should he win, and theres a greater incentive for the top guys to fight people in these positions.

 

[DLX]

the problem is the ufc would get greedy and go off the charts with a quick tier 4 vs tier 1 money fight right off the bat.

How so? Like I said, this is more flexible than rankings, so if the UFC feels like that match up would be competitve, they could just put them in the same tier, or maybe one apart.

 

[Shishio]

this seems like it would be good but would eventually fall into shambles via some unknown bullshit....i like the idea though

 

[LSU]

Yea, but the problem is there's starting to be too many guys looking at where they are and not wanting to fight anyone ranked lower than them. With the linear nature of a ranking system, SOMEONE will always have to bite the bullet, whether its 2 vs 5, 4 vs 7, 9 vs 15. The lower guys have to eventually move up by fighting someone of a higher level, and that becomes impossible when the higher ranked guys are declining to fight them.

With this system, however, that problem is essentially eliminated when you could just put the new and lesser known but highly skilled guys in the same tier with people who are at the top of the division. That way, the new guy can position himself easier should he win, and theres a greater incentive for the top guys to fight people in these positions.

See you are acting like the rankings actually matter. We have guys ranked #7 or #8 like Lee fighting for titles. What was Bisping ranked when he fought Luke? What about Conor and GSP when they fought for their last titles, weren’t they unranked in those divisions?

 

[90 50]

Needs to be ladder tournament style rankings leading up to title contention with winners and losers brackets or this shit is just going to keep on getting worse.

 

[DLX]

See you are acting like the rankings actually matter. We have guys ranked #7 or #8 like Lee fighting for titles. What was Bisping ranked when he fought Luke? What about Conor and GSP when they fought for their last titles, weren’t they unranked in those divisions?

Like I said before, Lee could be considered tier 1 since LW is so deep and there's not much difference in skill level of guys in the top 10.
GSP can be put immediately in tier 1 since he's a former long running champion. BisPing was constantly on the cusp of getting title shots what he got a shot against Luke, so he would at least be in the first or second tier.

The definitions I put for the different tiers wouldn't be set in stone ofc. Any type of fighter could be put in any tier. It's mostly based on skill level, where they're at in the division, or where the UFC wants them.

The only downside with this I'm is finding injury replacements. This isn't a perfect system, but I feel it would be better than the rankings as far as getting guys to fight each other.

 

[The Witcher]

Didnt read @DLX but you get a like cause you're a good cunt

 

[JohnOates]

They already have that. It’s called 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 and everyone else.

Seems like you didn't get the OP's meaning

 

[Franc Mittelo]

It is already boxing, and the best way for the UFC to make

I was listening to a Luke Thomas Podcast (Yea yea I know, inb4BetaCuck, ugotB3T4'D, etc...), and he was discussing the predicament that's going on in some of the divisions, most notably WW and LW, where you have a bunch of guys in the top 15 who have no scheduled fights (when healthy ofc). That being because there's a common theme of guys not wanting to fight lower ranked opponents once they get to the top. 3 doesn't want to fight 4 doesn't want to fight 5, and so on and so on.
So the fear is that if this continues, the UFC will start to turn into Boxing where the rankings are causing guys to over-stress about risk management rather than being active and building on their career. From a fighters perspective, it makes sense because the UFC gives you zero incentive to fight lower ranked opponents, and theres always far more of a risk than there is reward.
So instead of a linear numbered ranking system, what about having a certain about of fighters in a different tier class based on where they are in their careers, and the types of guys they will most likely be competing against? Separate each division into 5 tiers.
Tier 5 - The new comers who are early in their careers, or guys that are far past their prime and still hanging on or on the cusp of retirement.
Tier 4 - Guys that are on losing streaks and are about to be cut, guys that have been out for a long time and are just getting back into the fold
Tier 3 - High level prospects, The veteran gatekeepers of a weight class who probably will never challenge for a title.
Tier 2 - Guys that are on the cusp of achieving top contender status
Tier 1 - The Elite fighters and top contenders of a weight class
There wouldn't have to be an exact set amount of guys in each tier in a respective weight class, so it's flexible based on where guys in their class are in relative to the division, as opposed to having a linear system that doesn't accurately represent the make-up of the division. So for example, in a stacked division like LW, you can have 10 or even 15 guys in Tier 1, whereas in LHW, you could have maybe 2 or 3 guys in tier 1. This also eliminates guys not fighting a lower ranked guy who may be dangerous, because he'll be in the same tier and a win of the guy will be beneficial for him. Someone may also skip tiers if their win is dominant enough.
Also, they could have incentives (Monetary perhaps) for guys to fight someone in a lower tier. Perhaps they'll get a certain increase in pay whether they win of lose the fight.
tldr: Replace the Linear ranking system with a more flexible Tier system so guys in the same tier don't have excuses not to fight someone because they're ranked below them. It may prevent divisions stalling from too many guys wanting to protect their careers.
Should the UFC go to this instead of rankings?

At the end of day, this system doesn't remove the shield that any ranking system provides fighters to duck fighters.

Fighters from a certain Tier will duck fighters from other Tiers. Fighters are all connected to each other. They know who they can definitely beat, who can give them an uncertain challenge, and who will really give them a hard time.

Any ranking system we come up with, will only serve as a shield to protect higher ranked fighters from lower ranked fighters they fear. It makes it easy to say "I am Tier 1, so why should I fight a Tier 5 fighter?"

A simpler solution is this: Most fighters aim to fight twice per year. So, (1) Only Top 3 fighters can get title shots and (2) Non-champion fighters should be given 1 fight above his rank, and 1 fight below his rank. For example, if you are Top 5 Fighter, you will be given a tough match-up from a Top 6 to Top 10. If you win, you will be given (preferably) a Top 1 to Top 4 fighter, if you win, you earn a title shot. If there are no Top 1 to Top 4 available, you get the title shot.

If you are a Top 15 fighter, you will be given a tough Top 16 to Top 20. If you win, your next fight will be a Top 10 to Top 14, if you win, you take that fighter's rank. If you lose, you move 1 spot down the ranking.

I think this way the chains will keep moving. The Top 10 ranked fighters will know that they can't move up the ranks, if they refuse to fight a lower ranked fighter, and the lower ranked fighters will have an opportunity to prove that they deserve to move up the ranks.

Basically, every fighter will fight 1 fight to prove that they deserve their rank or maybe higher, and another fight to prove that they definitely deserve to move up in the ranking. Every fight is a number 1 contender fight , to keep your rank or move up, and the next is the "championship" fight to definitely move up the rank.

This way, fighters know exactly how they are going to get to the title shot or move up the ranks, and there will be less ducking. You have to fight at least twice per year. The first time is somebody below your rank, and the second fight is somebody above your rank. If you are injured or turning down fights, you move down the ranking for every fight you miss.

Also, there should be a base salary attached to every rank. For example, being ranked number 10 means you get a base of U$100K. If you are a good promoter, you can get a bonus on top of that, but the negotiations starts at U$100K (or whatever number is feasible).

If fighters know there is a certain base monetary amount attached to rank, they will definitely have something for sure to fight for.

 

[DLX]

It is already boxing, and the best way for the UFC to make

At the end of day, this system doesn't remove the shield that any ranking system provides fighters to duck fighters.

Fighters from a certain Tier will duck fighters from other Tiers. Fighters are all connected to each other. They know who they can definitely beat, who can give them an uncertain challenge, and who will really give them a hard time.

Any ranking system we come up with, will only serve as a shield to protect higher ranked fighters from lower ranked fighters they fear. It makes it easy to say "I am Tier 1, so why should I fight a Tier 5 fighter?"

A simpler solution is this: Most fighters aim to fight twice per year. So, (1) Only Top 3 fighters can get title shots and (2) Non-champion fighters should be given 1 fight above his rank, and 1 fight below his rank. For example, if you are Top 5 Fighter, you will be given a tough match-up from a Top 6 to Top 10. If you win, you will be given (preferably) a Top 1 to Top 4 fighter, if you win, you earn a title shot. If there are no Top 1 to Top 4 available, you get the title shot.

If you are a Top 15 fighter, you will be given a tough Top 16 to Top 20. If you win, your next fight will be a Top 10 to Top 14, if you win, you take that fighter's rank. If you lose, you move 1 spot down the ranking.

I think this way the chains will keep moving. The Top 10 ranked fighters will know that they can't move up the ranks, if they refuse to fight a lower ranked fighter, and the lower ranked fighters will have an opportunity to prove that they deserve to move up the ranks.

Basically, every fighter will fight 1 fight to prove that they deserve their rank or maybe higher, and another fight to prove that they definitely deserve to move up in the ranking. Every fight is a number 1 contender fight , to keep your rank or move up, and the next is the "championship" fight to definitely move up the rank.

This way, fighters know exactly how they are going to get to the title shot or move up the ranks, and there will be less ducking. You have to fight at least twice per year. The first time is somebody below your rank, and the second fight is somebody above your rank. If you are injured or turning down fights, you move down the ranking for every fight you miss.

Also, there should be a base salary attached to every rank. For example, being ranked number 10 means you get a base of U$100K. If you are a good promoter, you can get a bonus on top of that, but the negotiations starts at U$100K (or whatever number is feasible).

If fighters know there is a certain base monetary amount attached to rank, they will definitely have something for sure to fight for.

I agree. The Tier system doesn't completely get rid of guys ducking lower guys. There will always be fighters looking to protect their careers because the incentive to do so is simply greater than being a company guy willing to take risky fights. The UFC WANTs the fighters to be company men and take any fight. But they do very little to actually reward the guys that do that (publicly at least).

However with this system, my main argument is that there won't be as much of an excuse to avoid guys that are competitive match ups. So there won't be a need to put 1 vs 5 because most divisions have enough fighters to fill the gaps. The main objective for the UFC is to make competitive match ups. Having 1 vs 5 literally makes no sense. And remember, if someone does fight a tier lower, they get a bonus incentive for taking the fight.

Your system would be great in a perfect world. But I think the constant injury pull outs would severely hamper the structure and pretty much ruin how guys move up in the rankings, along with the fact that the higher ranked guy might decline. Which is why I proposed the idea that you people a number of guys into one group instead of having a linear ranking system.

 

[RockyLockridge]

as a fighting game enthusiast, I can tell you that Tiers are some times taken too close to face value. People will begin to say stuff like, "why is a tier 5 matched up with a tier 3?" ect. They don't have to justify matchups nearly as much Without a tiered system. (lets face it they already don't justify their match ups anyway.)

 

[Magx951]

See you are acting like the rankings actually matter. We have guys ranked #7 or #8 like Lee fighting for titles. What was Bisping ranked when he fought Luke? What about Conor and GSP when they fought for their last titles, weren’t they unranked in those divisions?

Bisping was short notice.

GSP is a top 3 GOAT no matter how you look at it, he can get a title fight wherever he wants at this point of his career tbh.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Bisping was short notice.

GSP is a top 3 GOAT no matter how you look at it, he can get a title fight wherever he wants at this point of his career tbh.

A lot of people like to ignore context in relation fights. It's normal. It's like when people as why did conor get a LW title fight after going 1-1 with nate diaz.... Because of everything that happened before that.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

I was listening to a Luke Thomas Podcast (Yea yea I know, inb4BetaCuck, ugotB3T4'D, etc...), and he was discussing the predicament that's going on in some of the divisions, most notably WW and LW, where you have a bunch of guys in the top 15 who have no scheduled fights (when healthy ofc). That being because there's a common theme of guys not wanting to fight lower ranked opponents once they get to the top. 3 doesn't want to fight 4 doesn't want to fight 5, and so on and so on.

So the fear is that if this continues, the UFC will start to turn into Boxing where the rankings are causing guys to over-stress about risk management rather than being active and building on their career. From a fighters perspective, it makes sense because the UFC gives you zero incentive to fight lower ranked opponents, and theres always far more of a risk than there is reward.

i agree that this is a problem. i disagree with your solution.

instead, we need to incentivize contenders fighting contenders more. and i think flattening the pay structure is better. let me explain.

a #5 in a division making $40k/$40k has 4 choices:

1) fight a lower tiered, less dangerous opponent for $40k/$40k,
2) fight a very dangerous #2 or #3 for $40k/$40k,
3) hold out for more money to fight another contender, or
4) hold out for a title shot, and though they'll still only get $40k/$40k, they know a substantial pay increase is next if they win.

we want guys to do #2, but more and more they're doing #1 or #4. how do we get guys to do #2? pay contenders to fight contenders more.

but today the pay structure is just a modified tournament theory economic model. a very few make huge $ and most make peanuts. modified, because there is now a small middle class making 6 figures.

so increase the middle class of pay. if the choice is $40k/$40k or hold out for 7 figures, guys will continue to hold out. but if the choice was $40k/$40k to fight lower tier, $200k/$200k to fight a #2 contender, or hold out for 7 figures, a lot more guys would be more willing to put their career on the line to fight the #2.

and i call it 'flattening' because in order to pay for it they'd probably give champs and/or big money fighters less points.

 

[johnmangala]

Decent idea, you would have to label the rankings accordingly by tiers.

C-IC: Tier 1

1-5: Tier 2

6-10: Tier 3

10-15: Tier 4

>15: Tier 5