UFC has some of the worst BJJ Black Belts

[omawho402]

Huge distinction between gi and no gi.

 

[chiefwiggum]

Such as?

Vitor when he beat Joe Charles. It’s no myth fighters have been getting bjj black belts for decades not based on their jj. Black belt has always looked better and sounds better than blue or purple belt in jj.
Bones is the only guy who is still a white belt and he is no white belt.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Vitor when he beat Joe Charles. It’s no myth fighters have been getting bjj black belts for decades not based on their jj. Black belt has always looked better and sounds better than blue or purple belt in jj.
Bones is the only guy who is still a white belt and he is no white belt.

I believe he's a purple belt now. He probably is a purple belt because he probably doesn't know enough about gi chokes.

 

[Trabaho]

Jones beats almost any black belt globally. You are making too much oit of this.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Jones beats almost any black belt globally. You are making too much oit of this.

Not in a gi he doesn't.

 

[AstralPanda]

There's a few factors at play here I feel

On the one hand, to attain that level of mastery in jiu jitsu, like we see in the current competive scene requires a level of dedication that isn't possible from someone who has to learn and balance multiple arts.

But Jiu Jitsu also isn't the same in MMA. It's a lot harder to implement even a high level grappling game today than it ever has been. Everyone knows how to defend exceptionally well, they know how to wrestle and use the cage, even the gloves to their advantage.

Its not the same as it used to be, all those openings are getting smaller and smaller as time goes on.

The rules inherently do not favor grappling I feel. Even the greatest grapplers to ever exist in the sport failed to implement their game, those that did struggled for every position and opening.

A lot of fighters gameplan to use their jiu jitsu defensively, to avoid positions, submissions, get back to their feet, etc. Those same fighters if you got them on the mats in a GI, they got subs.

A lot of them are probably way better than they appear, but it's more strategically viable to adopt a defensively minded gameplan.

Definitely a lot of factors at play but overall, I think MMA is just a different beast.

Moving forward I think we'll start to see more good wrestlers go directly into jiu jitsu and we'll start to see a comeback in the level of jiu jitsu that's able to be used effectively.

The biggest issue in the modern grappler is the ability to dictate where the fight takes place. Everyone can wrestle now and have gotten so good at defending and avoiding any sort of danger.

 

[Trabaho]

Not in a gi he doesn't.

He still destroys you and all of your friends. Gi no gi business suit naked

 

[StewDogg11]

Lytle is a black belt

"While Lytle had long ago decided that he wasn’t interested in going for takedowns of his own, the jiu-jitsu black belt was more than ready to grapple when Hardy initiated it"

Today in MMA History: Chris Lytle's farewell adds to Dan Hardy's painful losing streak

Chris Lytle and Dan Hardy were both ready for their careers to be over, but only one let people in on that secret, and only one ended up sticking to it.

mmajunkie.usatoday.com

Wrong. This is from Lytle himself:

“People ask me all the time who I’m a black belt under. I’m not. I don’t even own a gi. I told the UFC, but they keep sayin’ it. What can I do? I told ‘em.”

 

[AstralPanda]

Rashad claims to have a black belt however I have never once ever seen him use a move that originated from BJJ. I've also never seen him submitted though so make of that what you will.

Rashad has been grappling a long time. He probably gives every black belt he rolls on the mats hell. Rashad was a BEAST in his prime

A lot of guys have it so they're ready for the positions or submissions when they arise.

But it's not necessarily ideal for some styles to just go after things, just because they have it. It's used In alignment with the strategy that makes the most sense for their style.

On the other hand, what Islam said is probably dead on. Guys are getting awarded black belts way too soon and would likely be purple- brown belts at a good school.

Probably a mix of both things.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

He still destroys you and all of your friends. Gi no gi business suit naked

I have friends who've competed in Polaris and ADCC lol. They'd sub Jon in a gi.

 

[AstralPanda]

There's a lot of keyboard warriors on here who like to think because they got a BJJ black belt after training 3 days/week for years, or train with those who do, that they have better grappling and have something over "pro fighters". It's just pure ego on their parts.

There's probably a lot of idiots on here who thought they had better grappling than Mighty Mouse simply because he was only a brown (even if we all knew he should've been black a long time ago) or because he was small. Then Mighty Mouse decided to actually join grappling tournaments and most people got real reality checks that yes, these guys absolutely are putting in insane levels of work on the mats during their MMA careers and actually are better than the vast majority of grapplers.

(obviously MM is a GOAT but you get the point)

When it comes to pure technique, positional mastery and submission prowess, there's countless black belts who are levels above MM.

That doesn't mean he couldn't smoke them in a grappling match. On some level, it definitely should be about effectiveness in real scenarios.

But I guess there's arguments on both sides. In the purest sense, a black belt probably should have a standard in regards to technical competency.

I doubt MM would be a black belt at a higher level school because there's simply a higher standard of what Is expected, even if he might be able to crush a few tournaments.

Truth probably lies somewhere in the middle, but I'd probably lean in the direction of how the best schools would approach awarding belts and deservedness, since they're the ones leading ship and leveling up the game.

 

[Snoowpy]

BJJ is is set up right now to not do well in MMA. Can't accept things that are metagame in BJJ but in MMA let you lose by points or get damaged by strikes. Wrestling has some awkward moments when they get elbowed into oblivion against the cage but further than that it always strives to take and maintain top position. A much better goal in a 1v1 fight.

BJJ stylists most often can't take a fight to the ground reliably. So half of the time they're at the bottom and either will finish the fight by sub, lose the fight by sub or gnp or lose the decision. The odds just are stacked against some styles of BJJ.

 

[Trabaho]

When it comes to pure technique, positional mastery and submission prowess, there's countless black belts who are levels above MM.

That doesn't mean he couldn't smoke them in a grappling match. On some level, it definitely should be about effectiveness in real scenarios.

But I guess there's arguments on both sides. In the purest sense, a black belt probably should have a standard in regards to technical competency.

I doubt MM would be a black belt at a higher level school because there's simply a higher standard of what Is expected, even if he might be able to crush a few tournaments.

Truth probably lies somewhere in the middle, but I'd probably lean in the direction of how the best schools would approach awarding belts and deservedness, since they're the ones leading ship and leveling up the game.

I think elite athletes like MJ and Jones nuke real black belts based on phisical and overal abilties. It's their job and their resources go into training where half of the sport is grappling. They don't got 9-5s. They got nutritionists. Sleep out each day. Full of energy. Just too atlhetic. Train twice a day for years. Good coaches focused on them.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I think elite athletes like MJ and Jones nuked real black belts based on phisical and overal abilties. It's their job and their resources go into training where half of the sport is grappling. They don't got 9-5s. They got nutritionists. Sleep out each day. Full of energy. Just too atlhetic. Train twice a day for years. Good coaches focused on them.

I think gi and no gi is an important distinction. I found gi frustrating for a bit so I kind of sacked it off for a year and trained no gi exclusively. Got to a stage where I can roll with competitive black belts without being submitted (not getting close to subbing them but I can survive) and beating a lot of brown belts and decided I want to get my brown belt so started putting the gi on again and immediately started having issues with blue belts that I'd absolutely trash without a gi on.

Makes a massive difference.

 

[CroCopsLHK]

Well BJJ has gotten to a place where athletes can make a living- or a fortune- on competing at it as it's own sport without getting punched. Gary Tonin, Mikey Musumeci, Gordon Ryan, etc

I think the point you are trying to make is BJJ belts are given out too often. Which is true. You had Poatan get one for knocking someone out lmao. There's been fighters like Wanderlei that never did shit on the ground

But to say UFC has the worst blackbelts is such a weird thing to say. Don't forget about Werdum, Maia, Penn, Dern, Jacare, Mir, Nogueiras, Burns, Vinny M, Pantoja. You could go on forever lol

Lastly MMA is fought no gi with so many more things to worry about at all times. It's also pretty hard to grapple wearing those gloves

So.... GO figure. Troll post?

 

[Masturbin]

Branch is a Renzo Gracie black belt who trained under John Danaher. A black belt doesn't get any more legit than that.

He did not show great grappling.
My only memories of him is getting subbed by Rockhold and Hermanson and jumping a gilly and dying.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

He did not show great grappling.
My only memories of him is getting subbed by Rockhold and Hermanson and jumping a gilly and dying.

Yeah but BJJ is a gi sport. He might be an absolute beast in a gi without punches involved.

 

[Trabaho]

I think gi and no gi is an important distinction. I found gi frustrating for a bit so I kind of sacked it off for a year and trained no gi exclusively. Got to a stage where I can roll with competitive black belts without being submitted (not getting close to subbing them but I can survive) and beating a lot of brown belts and decided I want to get my brown belt so started putting the gi on again and immediately started having issues with blue belts that I'd absolutely trash without a gi on.

Makes a massive difference.

It's irrelevant. They compete at mma. You can't pull shorts in mma. They would elbow every black belts face in in a street fight. Just like it doesn't matter what their take one do belt is. It's a different sport. They're black belts at mma grappling.

In the end they > you. By a galaxy.

 

[Trabaho]

Well BJJ has gotten to a place where athletes can make a living- or a fortune- on competing at it as it's own sport without getting punched. Gary Tonin, Mikey Musumeci, Gordon Ryan, etc

I think the point you are trying to make is BJJ belts are given out too often. Which is true. You had Poatan get one for knocking someone out lmao. There's been fighters like Wanderlei that never did shit on the ground

But to say UFC has the worst blackbelts is such a weird thing to say. Don't forget about Werdum, Maia, Penn, Dern, Jacare, Mir, Nogueiras, Burns, Vinny M, Pantoja. You could go on forever lol

Lastly MMA is fought no gi with so many more things to worry about at all times. It's also pretty hard to grapple wearing those gloves

So.... GO figure. Troll post?

Belts are based on skill, not what they have done in mma. They got belts for years of grappling training, not for their UFC victories. It's just timed that way to ve spectacular, give em the belt after a UFC fight.

Wand never got submittrd by anyone.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

It's irrelevant. They compete at mma. You can't pull shorts in mma. They would elbow every black belts face in in a street fight. Just like it doesn't matter what their take one do belt is. It's a different sport. They're black belts at mma grappling.

In the end they > you. By a galaxy.

But you can't be a black belt at MMA grappling because it isn't a thing. So when people are complaining about levels of black belts they're complaining about people they haven't seen roll in a gi without strikes which is what the sport of BJJ is, which is the sport they got the black belt in.

Nobody would question a judo black belt because they had a bad double leg.