UFC has some of the worst BJJ Black Belts

[AstralPanda]

Mighty Mouse is winning golds at IBJJF competitions at 154lbs, then afterwards for shits and giggles randomly getting IBJJF silvers in absolute divisions where he's grappling against 250lb guys.

You're literally the keyboard warrior I was talking about who wants to believe these guys aren't going to be good grapplers after grappling twice a day for 20 years.

I was simply acknowledging multiple sides of the discussion, not necessarily fully aligning with any particular idea.

I specifically said the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle, as there's validity in multiple schools of thought.

I think you have some issues with reading comprehension. How you got that from what I said, I have no idea, but you have some issues.

If what I said went over your head, you probably shouldn't be discussing jiu jitsu to begin with. Only keyboard warrior here is you.

 

[Ares Black]

I was simply acknowledging multiple sides of the discussion, not necessarily fully aligning with any particular idea.

I specifically said the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle, as there's validity in multiple schools of thought.

I think you have some issues with reading comprehension. How you got that from what I said, I have no idea, but you have some issues.

If what I said went over your head, you probably shouldn't be discussing jiu jitsu to begin with. Only keyboard warrior here is you.

I can't see who you are talking to, which means I have filed them under Not Worth Listening To.

 

[Clark Rogers]

???

Andrei's been submitted 3x in 60 fights by 3 black belts.

He's also not a black belt.

This. That bit about AA totally ruined any point OP thought they were making.

 

[ChickenBrother]

There's a lot of keyboard warriors on here who like to think because they got a BJJ black belt after training 3 days/week for years, or train with those who do, that they have better grappling and have something over "pro fighters". It's just pure ego on their parts.

There's probably a lot of idiots on here who thought they had better grappling than Mighty Mouse simply because he was only a brown (even if we all knew he should've been black a long time ago) or because he was small. Then Mighty Mouse decided to actually join grappling tournaments and most people got real reality checks that yes, these guys absolutely are putting in insane levels of work on the mats during their MMA careers and actually are better than the vast majority of grapplers.

(obviously MM is a GOAT but you get the point)

The disconnect is there are two belt standards in BJJ. Hobbyists (>95% of BJJers) and dedicated competitors who compete at IBJJF Pans, Worlds, etc. The latter are sandbagged AT LEAST 2 belts relative to the average hobbyist. A dude who medals at Pans at blue belt senior can tap most hobbyist black belts and I've seen this at our gym.

From what I've seen, for MMA fighters the BJJ belt standard is often somewhere in between. It's not as high as for top BJJ competitors, but is still well above average hobbyist standard. Also the conditioning and "fuck you up factor" that MMA guys bring are a big equalizer even in pure grappling.

But back to Mighty Mouse, I also thought he was sandbagged to hell and still don't understand how you can win worlds at master 2 brown and be allowed to compete in the same division at Pans the following year. But on balance, he competed at worlds last month for the first time at master 2 black and didn't place, getting subbed in his 4th match by a guy who took bronze. So it's not completely insane (although it still kind of is) that maybe his coach kept him at brown until he saw competitor BB proficiency in a gi.

TLDR: Only dummies think belt ranks are an absolute standard.

 

[markg171]

I was simply acknowledging multiple sides of the discussion, not necessarily fully aligning with any particular idea.

I specifically said the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle, as there's validity in multiple schools of thought.

I think you have some issues with reading comprehension. How you got that from what I said, I have no idea, but you have some issues.

If what I said went over your head, you probably shouldn't be discussing jiu jitsu to begin with. Only keyboard warrior here is you.

There is no multiple sides. Mighty Mouse is literally winning golds while competing 20-30lbs over what he even fought MMA at, and silvers against 250lbs grapplers. Something there's zero possible way he could've ever similarly done in MMA. Nobody remotely thinks he'd have won the LW belt, let alone competitively fight the HW champ.

There are a handful of better grapplers in the world. As one would expect from a guy who's grappled multiple times most days for the last 20 years. He's got more grappling experience than nearly everybody. Of course he's at the highest levels even if he's not also some Gordon Ryan.

But some people would rather pretend that after doing BJJ a couple times a week for years and having their own BB they could actually stand a chance rolling with them.

 

[Dr. Rose]

A few non Brazilian fighters have black belts off very legit people.

Erin Blanchfield is a Karel Prevec BB
Weidman has a Serra/Renzo BB
Holland under Lutter
Gunni under Renzo
Morono under Draculino
Brady under Daniel Gracie
Beneil under Barral
Swanson under Machado
Ortega under Rener Gracie

Etc etc

Out of how many fighters? It is approaching a 1000. The one's under Renzo was a blunder on my part. But I think the main point is sound, it seems easier to get a BJJ blackbelt now than in the 2000.

 

[Pierced7681]

I've watched his fights and seen a shocking lack of fundamentals consistently throughout the latter half of his career. In his case, it might be more that he earned it and experienced skill erosion as opposed to never really earning it.

Look at the skill level at the time when Vitor was given his black belt. Guys like Tank Abbott were still fighting. Vitor was clearly a black belt when he got it as a young man.

 

[Sonny Qc]

I think a black belt under the Nogueira's is saying, like, I got a free toy in my Happy Meal.

 

[Trabaho]

no one here believes poatan is a blackbelt
even gane who has submission wins is in a lower tier belt

Gane looked too bad vs Jones to be black belt. No no way. Avoided Curtis. He is so much more athletic at HW than Jones but got easily served.
He submited some lower level ufc hws. Ufc got a weak HW division outside the top 15.

 

[Billthebutcher]

Always found it a shameless gym/school promotion when a UFC fighter was awarded a BJJ black belt after a match.

Especially when they won by strikes.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

There is no multiple sides. Mighty Mouse is literally winning golds while competing 20-30lbs over what he even fought MMA at, and silvers against 250lbs grapplers. Something there's zero possible way he could've ever similarly done in MMA. Nobody remotely thinks he'd have won the LW belt, let alone competitively fight the HW champ.

There are a handful of better grapplers in the world. As one would expect from a guy who's grappled multiple times most days for the last 20 years. He's got more grappling experience than nearly everybody. Of course he's at the highest levels even if he's not also some Gordon Ryan.

But some people would rather pretend that after doing BJJ a couple times a week for years and having their own BB they could actually stand a chance rolling with them.

You should point out that mighty mouse was doing it at brown belt in the masters division so it's not like he's facing anything approaching elite competitors.

 

[StewDogg11]

He did not show great grappling.
My only memories of him is getting subbed by Rockhold and Hermanson and jumping a gilly and dying.

Rockhold didn’t submit him in a traditional sense. He tapped to punches.

 

[FriskyRandy]

Jon probably doesn't put the gi on. If you're a no gi grappler you can be a white belt at BJJ because the belt is part of the gi uniform.

Spanks, been doing BJJ for about 20 years, needed that quick lesson.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Spanks, been doing BJJ for about 20 years, needed that quick lesson.

Cool, then you should be aware of why he doesn't have a black belt.

 

[markg171]

You should point out that mighty mouse was doing it at brown belt in the masters division so it's not like he's facing anything approaching elite competitors.

Wow you actually are retarded enough to think that a 38 year old retired Mighty Mouse casually winning IBJJF gold while all the way up at 154lbs somehow doesn't show his grappling is very high level. Next you'll tell us he sucks for then making it to the semi-finals at black belt too.

Can't wait to hear your next shit take that Gordon Ryan suddenly sucks when he moves on to the masters division when he's eligible for it next year.

 

[AstralPanda]

There is no multiple sides. Mighty Mouse is literally winning golds while competing 20-30lbs over what he even fought MMA at, and silvers against 250lbs grapplers. Something there's zero possible way he could've ever similarly done in MMA. Nobody remotely thinks he'd have won the LW belt, let alone competitively fight the HW champ.

There are a handful of better grapplers in the world. As one would expect from a guy who's grappled multiple times most days for the last 20 years. He's got more grappling experience than nearly everybody. Of course he's at the highest levels even if he's not also some Gordon Ryan.

But some people would rather pretend that after doing BJJ a couple times a week for years and having their own BB they could actually stand a chance rolling with them.

Well, there is, and I laid them out, lol.

There is no multiple sides. Mighty Mouse is literally winning golds while competing 20-30lbs over what he even fought MMA at, and silvers against 250lbs grapplers. Something there's zero possible way he could've ever similarly done in MMA. Nobody remotely thinks he'd have won the LW belt, let alone competitively fight the HW champ.

There are a handful of better grapplers in the world. As one would expect from a guy who's grappled multiple times most days for the last 20 years. He's got more grappling experience than nearly everybody. Of course he's at the highest levels even if he's not also some Gordon Ryan.

But some people would rather pretend that after doing BJJ a couple times a week for years and having their own BB they could actually stand a chance rolling with them.

So, what is the overarching point of what you're trying to say? There's some validity here, but it's also kind of all over the place.

 

[blaseblase]

Tyrone Woodley, Cuba Swanson.

There's tons of guys that if they weren't in the UFC would have never received a black belt in a traditional gym.

I think Cub received his black belt before he got to the UFC. He won the Pan Ams as a blue belt back in the day.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Wow you actually are retarded enough to think that a 38 year old retired Mighty Mouse casually winning IBJJF gold while all the way up at 154lbs somehow doesn't show his grappling is very high level. Next you'll tell us he sucks for then making it to the semi-finals at black belt too.

Can't wait to hear your next shit take that Gordon Ryan suddenly sucks when he moves on to the masters division when he's eligible for it next year.

It's a noteable difference between beating the elite of the sport and winning at masters brown belt which is generally going to be hobbyists.

Hopefully now he's a black belt he'll enter some comps against everyone.

Someone like Ryan likely wouldn't compete at masters.

 

[FriskyRandy]

I think Cub received his black belt before he got to the UFC. He won the Pan Ams as a blue belt back in the day.

Yup. He was originally touted as a bjj guy. His sub defense has been horrendous his entire career.

 

[FriskyRandy]

Cool, then you should be aware of why he doesn't have a black belt.

This thread about people that have been awarded black belts and are clearly below that level.

Reading comprehension is harder than jiu-jitsu though.