UFC Fox 23 - Pena vs Shevchenko - Denver

[Sham5916910]

Nash looks trash. I watched his last three fights and he was getting handled by 3-2 trevino under a year ago until he pulled a guillotine out of his arse. If he cant put li away with one of his big shots hes getting done. His wrestling looked shite trevino was dumping him all over the shop and out scrambling him. He looked better against the ufc vet in his last fight but the lines gonna be interesting on this one.

Anyone know where li trained for this fight

 

[Cptn1NSAN0]

Aljo not ready for Assuncao, terrible stylistic match up for him. TD won't be there and he's gonna get 30-27'ed on the feet. Unless Assuncao looks like a shell of himself then I don't see him losing this fight.

I tend to agree but the altitude is no joke and Aljo came out here early to acclimate. Plus I believe he just signed a new contract so I'm sure his motivation for this fight is as high as it could possibly be, especially coming off a tough loss. I'm sweating my 2.5u play on Rafa...

 

[Cptn1NSAN0]

Would be pretty surprised with Assuncao's level of jiu jitsu, but he did come close in round 1 vs Caraway so wouldn't be all that shocking

Exactly. He's shown glimpses of greatness on the mat already and he's only getting better.

 

[Basek]

Nash looks trash. I watched his last three fights and he was getting handled by 3-2 trevino under a year ago until he pulled a guillotine out of his arse. If he cant put li away with one of his big shots hes getting done. His wrestling looked shite trevino was dumping him all over the shop and out scrambling him. He looked better against the ufc vet in his last fight but the lines gonna be interesting on this one.

Anyone know where li trained for this fight

He won his last 3 fights by 2x tko and 1 sub . "trash " is a strange analogy here.
I believe you found his style boring. Imo he is developing really good and I believe wrestling and cardio will be enough to get a first UFC W against liliangliakliang.

 

[Rasdun]

I love Cowboy, but he's activity ,constant training and years in mma starts to show up. Sorry but Matt Brown who is ghost of himself gave him a lot of trouble and almost ktfo him.
Plus there is a liver for shot.

In other hand we have Mas who in my opinion is reaching his prime. His preasure, boxing skills , power I believe makes Donald to much trouble to handle. Maybe not like against RDA when he was paralyzed but he will give up.
Also Mas have 42 fights and just 1 KO lost , the chance to KO him is clearly small and I don't see Cowboy decision him either.
Waiting for more bets on Donald and better odds to hit Mas much higher then I hit so far.
Will be awesome bloody fight.

how can you hold Cerrone's "years in MMA" against him but not Masvidal.

Cerrone is 1 1/2 years older, BUT he has only three more fights. Plus he turned pro in Feb '06 at age 22. fighting pro for 11 years
Masvidal turned pro in May 2003 at age 18 and has been fighting pro for almost 14 years.
Plus, Masvidal is known as an old-school bare-knockle street brawler; he has been involved in countless other unsanctioned street fights.
Point being, I don't think Cerrone's activity and years as a fighter is anymore than Masvidal.
plus, many are talking as if Brown was beating Cerrone bf the KO. IMO Cerrone was winning the fight and then knocked someone out who had only been knocked out once in 35 prior fights and that was by a perfectly placed liver shot.
Not saying Masvidal doesn't have slight value if he's approaching +150, but I don't favor him to win, especially based upon the previously provided evidence

 

[Sham5916910]

He won his last 3 fights by 2x tko and 1 sub . "trash " is a strange analogy here.
I believe you found his style boring. Imo he is developing really good and I believe wrestling and cardio will be enough to get a first UFC W against liliangliakliang.

I didnt find him boring but under a year ago he was getting dominated by a guy whos 3-2. Maybe trash was too strong but i have to heavily favour li based on tape i saw. Problem with li tho is he is hittable and nash clearly hits hard but nashs wrestling looks shite. The 3-2 kid trevino was out wrestling and scrambling him

 

[Sham5916910]

how can you hold Cerrone's "years in MMA" against him but not Masvidal.

Cerrone is 1 1/2 years older, BUT he has only three more fights. Plus he turned pro in Feb '06 at age 22. fighting pro for 11 years
Masvidal turned pro in May 2003 at age 18 and has been fighting pro for almost 14 years.
Plus, Masvidal is known as an old-school bare-knockle street brawler; he has been involved in countless other unsanctioned street fights.
Point being, I don't think Cerrone's activity and years as a fighter is anymore than Masvidal.
plus, many are talking as if Brown was beating Cerrone bf the KO. IMO Cerrone was winning the fight and then knocked someone out who had only been knocked out once in 35 prior fights and that was by a perfectly placed liver shot.
Not saying Masvidal doesn't have slight value if he's approaching +150, but I don't favor him to win, especially based upon the previously provided evidence

It was 1 1 dude c'mon. Check the stats from r2 if watching with your own eye isnt enough.

 

[Rasdun]

Mas's one KO loss is bs it was a terrible stoppage. In my mind he has never been stopped.

Jim Miller had never been KO'd; Story had never been KO'd; Cote only one once (by Anderson Silva - by injury?); Matt Brown only once in 35 fights by a liver kick.
Cerrone is capable of stopping those who don't get stopped

 

[Rasdun]

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2017/1/2...g-criteria-explained-hinds-bell-mma-interview

Interesting read especially this section in regard to the Lauzon fight:

"BE: Effectiveness and Dominance through grappling still seem to be widely misunderstood concepts. What are judges looking for when assigning credit to grappling?

Hinds: Agreed. The main reason for the misunderstanding is that people continue to evaluate actions instead of results. In a grappling scenario, positioning means the least when making an evaluation. This is a very hard concept for most to understand; especially when it comes to grappling artists that are used to “gaining points” for positional advantages.

All must keep in mind: It’s what is being accomplished to progress/finish the fight in that position as opposed to the position itself.

Example: A fighter with their opponent’s back (dominant position) that is doing nothing but holding a seat belt grip is going to weigh less than a fighter that is on bottom in full closed guard (neutral position) hurting his/her opponent with elbows and solid, (near) fight ending threatening submission attempts.

Judges should be always looking at the result of an action, not the action itself.

Judges should be looking for the same things in grappling that they look for in striking. Damage. The opportunity to finish the fight.

They should be evaluating (near) fight ending sequences such as: tight effective submissions, positions and transitions that have clearly diminished their opponent’s ability to compete, slams that have affected their opponents output and positional dominance that has rendered their opponent solely defensive with little to no offensive output.

Just hold a position has some weight, but not as much as people think when assessing an effective grappling round."

I think chaps we need to be going with the guy who has threatened from the bottom moving forward if the other person has just laid on them. Examples are Magny and Lauzon fights. I scored the fight for Magny but the other fight for Held. Let's hope it takes the books a few months to cotton on and let's get rich on live bet. I'm gonna imprint damage, dominance and duration into my mind.

In the same article the guy says r2 of tate holm should be 10-8 tate. can anyone remember that round?

helpful - Thanks

 

[Rasdun]

It was 1 1 dude c'mon. Check the stats from r2 if watching with your own eye isnt enough.

dude cmon???

3 Sherdog judged had Cerrone up 2-0
mma fighting had cerrone up 2-0
mma junkie had Cerrone up 2-0

Obviously, I'm not the only one

 

[Joseph Budden]

Yeah when I rewatched Brown vs Cerrone it doesn't seem unreasonable at all to have Cowboy 2-0

Also a fair point regarding Cowboy finishing guys who don't get finished.

Hope money comes in on Mas cause tbh I'd rather play Cerrone here. At current odds though i'd have to play Mas dec

 

[BatBoyJG]

New judging rules are fucking retarded.

With that article posted it says having the back and holding will be valued less then someone on their back throwing elbows. And then they follow that saying that judges should look for positional dominance that leaves the opponent solely defenseive with little to no offense output. Isn't that exactly what the back position is?

 

[t6p]

Would be pretty surprised with Assuncao's level of jiu jitsu, but he did come close in round 1 vs Caraway so wouldn't be all that shocking

Guys I talked to Sterling at the Albany event and he told me he's going to sub RA, so there you have it. Kidding obviously but he really did tell me that.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

Big Knight fan but I dont like him in this spot. He doesnt cut off the cage very well just chases his opponent with very little defense. His style works well vs the right opponents but Caceres movement is gonna be the key here IMO and something Knight hasnt seen before. If he just follows him around I dont think he will get much offense going and will probably walk into a lot of strikes. He's gonna have to cut Caceres off and get him on the fence.

The same here.

I watched some tape on Knight and I think Caceres has the potential to outclass him.

Caceres has looked outstanding lately. Very confortable there. Great movement and distance control.

I think Jason is too basic. That does not mean he cant catch Alex (who has been finished in the past) but I see this being a clear decision for Caceres.

 

[HeDucking]

Jim Miller had never been KO'd; Story had never been KO'd; Cote only one once (by Anderson Silva - by injury?); Matt Brown only once in 35 fights by a liver kick.
Cerrone is capable of stopping those who don't get stopped

Except the guys like Cote and Story have wear and tear whilst Mas is more fresh. I would be surprised as hell if Cerrone was the one to KO Mas. Its easier finishing guys who have sustained punishment in fights over a long time. Story was held together by nothing other than his will atm with the surgery to his neck etc. Cote has been hurt several times in fights prior by bigger guys, theres bound to be some residual damage. Besides Chuck ha an iron chin until he didnt after all the punishment.

 

[Ukram]

New judging rules are fucking retarded.

With that article posted it says having the back and holding will be valued less then someone on their back throwing elbows. And then they follow that saying that judges should look for positional dominance that leaves the opponent solely defenseive with little to no offense output. Isn't that exactly what the back position is?

Yeah its baffling I think its trying to say that controlling will still be a factor but they would still award the damage or control + damage factor overall.

So if someone took a opponent down 3 times and held him down, controlled him while on top but his/her opponent landed few strikes while standing up they give the round to the guy throwing strikes more and at least attempting to finish the fight.

It gets even more confusing since they now award confidence or lack of confidence in this new criteria, and to make things harder to understand a cut, bruises, bumps can also be viewed as significant damage and also be awarded. So Shev could jab Penas face 20 times in r1 with little damage shown but if Pena cuts her under her eye and blood runs with one punch, she wins the round.

Now all I have to do is wait for someone to correct all the above to make sense of it all lol

 

[Cord]

The same here.

I watched some tape on Knight and I think Caceres has the potential to outclass him.

Caceres has looked outstanding lately. Very confortable there. Great movement and distance control.

I think Jason is too basic. That does not mean he cant catch Alex (who has been finished in the past) but I see this being a clear decision for Caceres.

You have a point, however even Dan Hooker was arguably stylistically and physically superior to Knight, and look what happened to him.

Knight's potential is overall still undervalued in my opinion.
My only concern with Knight on this fight is his cardio while fighting at altitude. He hasn't got a bad cardio, however his ultra aggressive style tends to wear him down in the last round, and if you add the altitud and having to deal with Caceres' evasiveness, that adds up to a tough fight for Knight. Reason why I will bet against him for the first time.. but still not too confident about it.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

You have a point, however even Dan Hooker was arguably stylistically and physically superior to Knight, and look what happened to him.

Knight's potential is overall still undervalued in my opinion.
My only concern with Knight on this fight is his cardio while fighting at altitude. He hasn't got a bad cardio, however his ultra aggressive style tends to wear him down in the last round, and if you add the altitud and having to deal with Caceres' evasiveness, that adds up to a tough fight for Knight. Reason why I will bet against him for the first time.. but still not too confident about it.

Yeah.. Im not confiden either but I have to go with Caceres at + odds.

 

[Cptn1NSAN0]

You have a point, however even Dan Hooker was arguably stylistically and physically superior to Knight, and look what happened to him.

Knight's potential is overall still undervalued in my opinion.
My only concern with Knight on this fight is his cardio while fighting at altitude. He hasn't got a bad cardio, however his ultra aggressive style tends to wear him down in the last round, and if you add the altitud and having to deal with Caceres' evasiveness, that adds up to a tough fight for Knight. Reason why I will bet against him for the first time.. but still not too confident about it.

Hooker gave Knight all he could handle on the feet. He was tagging Knight with left straights all day, Knight won that fight with his wrestling and top game. I believe Caceres is a much better wrestler than Hooker and an even better striker.

 

[Card]

Highlights -