UFC Founder wanted Rickson Gracie to face Aleksandr Karelin

[JPOMMA]

Not somebody he would duck? Rickson fought one credible opponent in his entire MMA career.

Anyone who has ever fought even a little and looks into his career knows it’s untrue. At 19 he was already fighting one of the biggest threats of his day. Zulu was like 100kg/215lbs to Rickson’s 160/70. If you look at his career through the context of his time (vale tudo, challenge fights, Japanese MMA, etc.) you might appreciate what he’s done.

Granted, in later years he became picky and was never really into the spectacle if it all. Seeing “fans” clamor for [fill any all time great’s name] to fight yet another random contender to prove their “goatness” (geez…), it’s easy to understand a champ’s distaste for the public. After all, even Fedor was a can crusher and never any good, right?

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Karelin would have slammed Rickson through whatever surface they were fighting on.

Through that, then whatever surface was underneath supporting the former surface.

Karelin vs Rickson would have stomped out the dreams of many a BJJ nerd.

For reference, Rickson was 5'10 185 at his absolute peak, while Karelin was 6'3" 287lbs.

I cannot express in words the type of ground meat that Karelin would have turned Rickson into in an early UFC/NHB fight, as those butchery techniques haven't been invented yet.

 

[JPOMMA]

Aleksandr Karelin was a competent Sambo champion.
I suspect he wouldn't have issues defending subs from Rickson, before violently slamming him through the mat

Karelin vs Maeda (highlights)

Full match (choreographed)

Ugh? Lay-n-pray and WWE moves (and this fight looks like a work)? Guys like Rickson and Fedor FINISHED bigger opponents with technique and yet they are called can crushers. Karelin endlessly lays on top of a much smaller, unathletic guy…and he’s getting praise? Sounds like hate against a given fighter masquerading as appreciation for another.

 

[JPOMMA]

Through that, then whatever surface was underneath supporting the former surface.

Karelin vs Rickson would have stomped out the dreams of many a BJJ nerd.

For reference, Rickson was 5'10 185 at his absolute peak, while Karelin was 6'3" 287lbs.

I cannot express in words the type of ground meat that Karelin would have turned Rickson into in an early UFC/NHB fight, as those butchery techniques haven't been invented yet.

Any videos of Karelin finishing strong NHB competition? Genuinely asking, to assess whether he would have been a Bo Nikal instead.

 

[TheBulge]

What a coincidence I was actually thinking about Rickson the other day how he would do against huge worst class wrestlers and I remember atleast 1 story of a big HW wrestler pinning him down for like an hour and even the great Rickson could not break himself free and go for a sub.

There's also a video where he grapples another big wrestler and I don't remember if he eventually catches him with a sub or he was again pinned down in a stalemate.

So Rickson has atleast 1 draw on his legendary record along with the Sambo loss. I have a hard time seeing any BJJ guy beat Karelin if he decides to just hold them down.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Any videos of Karelin finishing strong NHB competition? Genuinely asking, to assess whether he would have been a Bo Nikal instead.

Comparing the 300lb greatest HW greco roman wrestler of all time, with a record of 887-2 with both losses being controversial point losses to fucking Bo Nickal.

Karelin was too busy winning golds in 92, 96, and getting robbed of one in 2000 when they literally had to change the rules to nerf him (Gardner never scored a single point on Karelin, he was given a point due to Karelin breaking a new rule) to even entertain the idea of competing in NHB at the time.

He gut wrenched 300lb men like they were sacks of flour, cross trained boxing and Sambo in his spare time earlier in his career, father was a pro boxer.

He has a PHD in defending against the suplex. I'm not using that as a metaphor for how good he was. I mean he has an actual PHD, for which he literally wrote a thesis on defending the suplex.

No Gracie alive could have taken him down and the first time they'd pull guard they'd get slammed into dust.

I know it's hard for some fans to digest, but Karelin in UFC 1 would have looked like a grown man against a third grade class in the thunderdome.

"He made a mistake, and I got a lucky call, I told him, 'You're still the best. There's nobody close to as good as you are.'" -Rulon Gardner

 

[acannxr]

From what I remember he was going to face Saku and contract negotiations were ongoing…then his son died. I love Saku but it’s not someone Rickson would duck.

And yet after his son's death he continued criticizing and calling out active fighters.

 

[TheBulge]

He gut wrenched 300lb men like they were sacks of flour, cross trained boxing and Sambo in his spare time earlier in his career, father was a pro boxer.

He did have a very successful boxing career after the loss to Gardner in the olympics. I always thought he should have lost that fight against old Evander Holyfield though.

 

[YesForGayJesus]

Ugh? Lay-n-pray and WWE moves (and this fight looks like a work)? Guys like Rickson and Fedor FINISHED bigger opponents with technique and yet they are called can crushers. Karelin endlessly lays on top of a much smaller, unathletic guy…and he’s getting praise? Sounds like hate against a given fighter masquerading as appreciation for another.

It's a total work. I don't think Maeda ever had an actual sanctioned fight.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

He did have a very successful boxing career after the loss to Gardner in the olympics. I always thought he should have lost that fight against old Evander Holyfield though.

Holyfield being 46 and having the balls to get in the ring with that 7ft tall monster in Valuev is some underrated boxing legend stuff only because Evander lost that razor thin decision

 

[Shaolin Alan]

Ugh? Lay-n-pray and WWE moves (and this fight looks like a work)? Guys like Rickson and Fedor FINISHED bigger opponents with technique and yet they are called can crushers. Karelin endlessly lays on top of a much smaller, unathletic guy…and he’s getting praise? Sounds like hate against a given fighter masquerading as appreciation for another.

Is reading comprehension difficult for you?
"choreographed"

 

[BowserJr]

Rickson by armbar..

Best 1st response

/ thread

 

[swizztony]

karelin via batista bomb paralyzation in the first 30 seconds

 

[TheBulge]

Holyfield being 46 and having the balls to get in the ring with that 7ft tall monster in Valuev is some underrated boxing legend stuff only because Evander lost that razor thin decision

That's how I like to remember him in his final boxing days. Not TRT Vitor making him crip walk all over the ring.

 

[JPOMMA]

Comparing the 300lb greatest HW greco roman wrestler of all time, with a record of 887-2 with both losses being controversial point losses to fucking Bo Nickal.

Karelin was too busy winning golds in 92, 96, and getting robbed of one in 2000 when they literally had to change the rules to nerf him (Gardner never scored a single point on Karelin, he was given a point due to Karelin breaking a new rule) to even entertain the idea of competing in NHB at the time.

He gut wrenched 300lb men like they were sacks of flour, cross trained boxing and Sambo in his spare time earlier in his career, father was a pro boxer.

He has a PHD in defending against the suplex. I'm not using that as a metaphor for how good he was. I mean he has an actual PHD, for which he literally wrote a thesis on defending the suplex.

No Gracie alive could have taken him down and the first time they'd pull guard they'd get slammed into dust.

I know it's hard for some fans to digest, but Karelin in UFC 1 would have looked like a grown man against a third grade class in the thunderdome.

"He made a mistake, and I got a lucky call, I told him, 'You're still the best. There's nobody close to as good as you are.'" -Rulon Gardner

Woulda shoulda coulda…but didn’t. I think most educated enthusiasts (and you’re clearly one) would agree that we never know how an “athlete” from one discipline would cross over into MMA.

We also know that many decorated people from one sport don’t succeed in another. The greatest and most decorated thai boxer I’ve ever met got choked to sleep in the first round of his very first pro MMA fight and promptly retired. And there are plenty of amazing wrestlers who freeze once they get punched in the face. MMA is MMA. An Olympic medal in wrestling is great but it’s not fighting. At all.

Of course you’re free to theorize on what Karelin MIGHT have done against actual MMA guys as if he were a childhood cartoon hero (the Hulk?). That’s totally fine and partly what this forum is for after all. “My guy would kill your guy!!!”

 

[JPOMMA]

Is reading comprehension difficult for you?
"choreographed"

Then why are you showing a fake fight of a roided Russian laying on a smaller Japanese man as proof that he would have beaten Rickson? The video doesn’t match your comment, so it’s not my reading comprehension but your logic that’s faulty. Respectfully.

 

[JPOMMA]

And yet after his son's death he continued criticizing and calling out active fighters.

I don’t quite remember that, rather a big silence from him during that period. But you might be right

 

[Natural Order]

Karelin would have chewed up the entire Gracie family in the cage at the same time. Stop playing.

 

[FriskyRandy]

Comparing the 300lb greatest HW greco roman wrestler of all time, with a record of 887-2 with both losses being controversial point losses to fucking Bo Nickal.

Karelin was too busy winning golds in 92, 96, and getting robbed of one in 2000 when they literally had to change the rules to nerf him (Gardner never scored a single point on Karelin, he was given a point due to Karelin breaking a new rule) to even entertain the idea of competing in NHB at the time.

He gut wrenched 300lb men like they were sacks of flour, cross trained boxing and Sambo in his spare time earlier in his career, father was a pro boxer.

He has a PHD in defending against the suplex. I'm not using that as a metaphor for how good he was. I mean he has an actual PHD, for which he literally wrote a thesis on defending the suplex.

No Gracie alive could have taken him down and the first time they'd pull guard they'd get slammed into dust.

I know it's hard for some fans to digest, but Karelin in UFC 1 would have looked like a grown man against a third grade class in the thunderdome.

"He made a mistake, and I got a lucky call, I told him, 'You're still the best. There's nobody close to as good as you are.'" -Rulon Gardner

Cool info about the PhD. Aleksandr Karelin was one awesome mother fucker.

 

[xhaydenx]

Karelin would have slaughtered any Gracie ever.