News UFC Dana White are SAVAGES (Sunset Clause)

Jason7227 said:
https://bloodyelbow.com/2023/11/01/ufc-using-francis-ngannou-to-help-case/

New contract change allows UFC to ‘pause’ sunset clauses

John Nash explains the brand new changes to the sunset clause in UFC contracts and why Jon Jones might have lost out on a generational wealth payday against Francis Ngannou.
Similarly, former UFC Heavyweight Champion Francis Ngannou, who PFL signed in May 2023, indicated in the press that PFL offered him more compensation than any other competitor MMA promotion, including UFC. Moreover, it has increasingly drawn athletes away from UFC directly rebutting Plaintiffs’ theory that “elite” MMA athletes would not be willing to leave UFC for competitors. If plaintiff’s allegation in this case and Johnson regarding allegedly exclusionary contracts were correct, UFC fighters would not be signing contracts with competitors.”

*Note: The “Johnson” they refer to is the second antitrust case that Kajan Johnson, C.B. Dollaway, et al launched to cover contract dates that were effective after July 1, 2017.

That’s their argument and it basically means if the UFC had an exclusionary contract and were a monopsony, their fighters couldn’t go and sign contracts with the competitors. Nash figures this could be a stalling tactic by the promotion:


“It just strikes me as an attempt that if the appeal process fails, if the appeal isn’t picked up by the Ninth Circuit, they’re trying to delay the case even longer. I thought it was well written, but if you follow the business, if you follow MMA, the arguments they make don’t quite line up with the reality of how the business, the state of the industry is actually like.”

Brand new change to the sunset clause to prevent another Francis Ngannou
It’s important to remember that Francis Ngannou was able to leave the company by waiting out the sunset clause in his contract. That sunset clause was introduced as a response to the Le et al. v Zuffa antitrust lawsuit and ensured that the promotion couldn’t continuously extend the terms of fighter contracts indefinitely, capping those terms at the five year mark. Before 2017, it did not exist.

Since its inception, the clause has undergone changes, and most recently, a significant change all but ensures the contracted fighter cannot just wait out the length of their contract for release. Nash provides some information and context to the new adjustment:


“The first set of changes to the clause was noted when Taila Santos’ contract was made public after it appeared in an unrelated court case. Two alterations were clear:




    • The five year sunset provision would now kick in on the date of the first fight on the contract, rather than the previous iteration where it began the day you singed the contract
    • The contract could be ‘paused’ in cases of suspension (could possibly include medical suspensions)
A further change has appeared in the newest contracts Nash has been made privy to, as well:

“On top of those changes, a brand new one is here, and it’s even more restrictive. Basically, what it says is that if you turn down fights and the UFC doesn’t think you have a legitimate enough reason to turn down said fights, they can again pause the five year period. Let’s say it’s the third year of a fighter’s contract and they decide, ‘You know what, I don’t like what I’m being offered, I’m just going to wait out my contract’. Well, the UFC can say that you are refusing to take a legitimate offer, and that five year period will be paused. So it ruins the whole purpose of a sunset clause.”
He went on to state,

“So their argument is, ‘Oh, ‘Francis Ngannou was an example of how we didn’t have monopoly power.’ But that would only apply to the brief period that you changed your contracts so they were no longer perpetual. That’s only a couple-year window, which now no longer applies to the reason under the new contracts.”

The biggest loser is Jon Jones
When Jon Jones and Francis Ngannou talks were in the earliest stages a few years ago, Dana White was quick to throw Jones under the bus for asking for an “absurd amount of money” to fight the Cameroonian. Ngannou would champion Jonny’s cause, though, echoing the need for a purse bump for the superfight.


Since then, Ngannou has left the UFC, signed a mega deal with the PFL, fought the lineal heavyweight boxing champion of the world and took him to a contested split decision where many thought he won. Jon Jones, by comparison, signed another restrictive contract and locked himself out of the biggest fight MMA—maybe even all combat sports—has to offer.

Nash figures the odds of that superfight happening are between none and a snowball’s chance in the hot place:

They’d have to co-promote with PFL. That’s never going to happen. They will never co-promote. The next step would be if Ngannou somehow get out of his PFL contract in a reasonable time and then with the UFC, he’s going to want something akin to what he’s making in boxing, right? That might be too much for the UFC to give him because they don’t want to break their business model.


He continued,

“The other step would be for Jon Jones to get out of his contract. The problem is, he just re-signed. My understanding is he probably had a sunset clause and could have waited until next year, been out of that contract, and then fought Ngannou. Everybody I’ve talked to in the industry, they all say that fight is huge. It’d be huge even outside the UFC because of the interest level in it.

If someone fumbled a bag, it might be Jon Jones, because if that fight sells as much as people think, like 1.5 million buys, 1.6, just a huge number of buys that people think it would do, like one of the biggest MMA fights, perhaps the biggest ever, he would have not only doubled what he’s making with the UFC, but quadrupled what they’re paying him. So, he lost out on a generational wealth match and possibly a rematch if they wanted to do it again
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly Jon stated that he signed a multi fight contract. I believe he said the exact amount in the post fight presser after the Gane fight. I will go find it and update.

Update: It was an 8 fight deal. -Source-
 
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The thing about the PFL is that they are bleeding money, but they have to make revenue at some point and be consistent for it to be sustainable. We've seen similar stories before with other promotions. Anyone with sufficiently reckless investors can offer a few exorbitant contracts that outbid the UFC, but the question is whether it is a sustainable business model and platform in the long run.

I really like the PFL production values, but I seriously doubt they will succeed in capturing market share.
 
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Idk where I fall on that, on one hand yeah it sounds ugly, on the other I could see someone trying to do just that, not accept valid offers and refuse to hold up their end of the contract they signed hoping to wait out the end.

Idk the right answer to that dilemma.
 
Dana White:

“I didn’t see the fight, but the fact that he went 10 rounds with Tyson Fury is crazy,” White said on Donald Trump Jr.’s Triggered podcast. “He just went 10 rounds with Tyson Fury. Conor (McGregor) made it 9 or 10 with Floyd. just beat Roy Jones Jr. – I know Roy is friggin’ 60 years old or whatever. But I don’t know what the hell is going on. It’s crazy. I didn’t see the fight, but the fact that he went 10 rounds is unbelievable.”

When asked if Ngannou’s boxing success hurt the UFC, White scoffed at the notion.

“I don’t care,” White said. “Listen, these guys, at some point, everybody is going to move on. Everybody has to do what’s right for them and make money for their families, so whatever they’ve got to do, they’ve got to do.”

Except Dana, it seems you are actually trying to keep them around...
 
Jason7227 said:
Dana White:

“I didn’t see the fight, but the fact that he went 10 rounds with Tyson Fury is crazy,” White said on Donald Trump Jr.’s Triggered podcast. “He just went 10 rounds with Tyson Fury. Conor (McGregor) made it 9 or 10 with Floyd. just beat Roy Jones Jr. – I know Roy is friggin’ 60 years old or whatever. But I don’t know what the hell is going on. It’s crazy. I didn’t see the fight, but the fact that he went 10 rounds is unbelievable.”

When asked if Ngannou’s boxing success hurt the UFC, White scoffed at the notion.

“I don’t care,” White said. “Listen, these guys, at some point, everybody is going to move on. Everybody has to do what’s right for them and make money for their families, so whatever they’ve got to do, they’ve got to do.”

Except Dana, it seems you are actually trying to keep them around...
Click to expand...
Even if he's not sincere (I don't know, of course), it's a decent statement from him. It's a non-bridge-burning type statement.
 
wwkirk said:
Even if he's not sincere (I don't know, of course), it's a decent statement from him. It's a non-bridge-burning type statement.
Click to expand...
He sees the money. Maybe he can have his fight after all. Only so many boxers Frank can take on and produce really good numbers.
 
wwkirk said:
Even if he's not sincere (I don't know, of course), it's a decent statement from him. It's a non-bridge-burning type statement.
Click to expand...
PoS statement "Ask Randy how that worked out" was the threat to all fighters.
 
  • The contract could be ‘paused’ in cases of suspension (could possibly include medical suspensions)
Click to expand...

Smart UFC guys.
<[analyzed}>
 
Jason7227 said:
https://bloodyelbow.com/2023/11/01/ufc-using-francis-ngannou-to-help-case/

New contract change allows UFC to ‘pause’ sunset clauses

John Nash explains the brand new changes to the sunset clause in UFC contracts and why Jon Jones might have lost out on a generational wealth payday against Francis Ngannou.
Similarly, former UFC Heavyweight Champion Francis Ngannou, who PFL signed in May 2023, indicated in the press that PFL offered him more compensation than any other competitor MMA promotion, including UFC. Moreover, it has increasingly drawn athletes away from UFC directly rebutting Plaintiffs’ theory that “elite” MMA athletes would not be willing to leave UFC for competitors. If plaintiff’s allegation in this case and Johnson regarding allegedly exclusionary contracts were correct, UFC fighters would not be signing contracts with competitors.”

*Note: The “Johnson” they refer to is the second antitrust case that Kajan Johnson, C.B. Dollaway, et al launched to cover contract dates that were effective after July 1, 2017.

That’s their argument and it basically means if the UFC had an exclusionary contract and were a monopsony, their fighters couldn’t go and sign contracts with the competitors. Nash figures this could be a stalling tactic by the promotion:


“It just strikes me as an attempt that if the appeal process fails, if the appeal isn’t picked up by the Ninth Circuit, they’re trying to delay the case even longer. I thought it was well written, but if you follow the business, if you follow MMA, the arguments they make don’t quite line up with the reality of how the business, the state of the industry is actually like.”

Brand new change to the sunset clause to prevent another Francis Ngannou
It’s important to remember that Francis Ngannou was able to leave the company by waiting out the sunset clause in his contract. That sunset clause was introduced as a response to the Le et al. v Zuffa antitrust lawsuit and ensured that the promotion couldn’t continuously extend the terms of fighter contracts indefinitely, capping those terms at the five year mark. Before 2017, it did not exist.

Since its inception, the clause has undergone changes, and most recently, a significant change all but ensures the contracted fighter cannot just wait out the length of their contract for release. Nash provides some information and context to the new adjustment:


“The first set of changes to the clause was noted when Taila Santos’ contract was made public after it appeared in an unrelated court case. Two alterations were clear:




    • The five year sunset provision would now kick in on the date of the first fight on the contract, rather than the previous iteration where it began the day you singed the contract
    • The contract could be ‘paused’ in cases of suspension (could possibly include medical suspensions)
A further change has appeared in the newest contracts Nash has been made privy to, as well:

“On top of those changes, a brand new one is here, and it’s even more restrictive. Basically, what it says is that if you turn down fights and the UFC doesn’t think you have a legitimate enough reason to turn down said fights, they can again pause the five year period. Let’s say it’s the third year of a fighter’s contract and they decide, ‘You know what, I don’t like what I’m being offered, I’m just going to wait out my contract’. Well, the UFC can say that you are refusing to take a legitimate offer, and that five year period will be paused. So it ruins the whole purpose of a sunset clause.”
He went on to state,

“So their argument is, ‘Oh, ‘Francis Ngannou was an example of how we didn’t have monopoly power.’ But that would only apply to the brief period that you changed your contracts so they were no longer perpetual. That’s only a couple-year window, which now no longer applies to the reason under the new contracts.”

The biggest loser is Jon Jones
When Jon Jones and Francis Ngannou talks were in the earliest stages a few years ago, Dana White was quick to throw Jones under the bus for asking for an “absurd amount of money” to fight the Cameroonian. Ngannou would champion Jonny’s cause, though, echoing the need for a purse bump for the superfight.


Since then, Ngannou has left the UFC, signed a mega deal with the PFL, fought the lineal heavyweight boxing champion of the world and took him to a contested split decision where many thought he won. Jon Jones, by comparison, signed another restrictive contract and locked himself out of the biggest fight MMA—maybe even all combat sports—has to offer.

Nash figures the odds of that superfight happening are between none and a snowball’s chance in the hot place:

They’d have to co-promote with PFL. That’s never going to happen. They will never co-promote. The next step would be if Ngannou somehow get out of his PFL contract in a reasonable time and then with the UFC, he’s going to want something akin to what he’s making in boxing, right? That might be too much for the UFC to give him because they don’t want to break their business model.


He continued,

“The other step would be for Jon Jones to get out of his contract. The problem is, he just re-signed. My understanding is he probably had a sunset clause and could have waited until next year, been out of that contract, and then fought Ngannou. Everybody I’ve talked to in the industry, they all say that fight is huge. It’d be huge even outside the UFC because of the interest level in it.

If someone fumbled a bag, it might be Jon Jones, because if that fight sells as much as people think, like 1.5 million buys, 1.6, just a huge number of buys that people think it would do, like one of the biggest MMA fights, perhaps the biggest ever, he would have not only doubled what he’s making with the UFC, but quadrupled what they’re paying him. So, he lost out on a generational wealth match and possibly a rematch if they wanted to do it again
Click to expand...
Francis didnt wait out his contract thought he made his obligigation and left.. he has x many fights left and faught it out even when he was injured vs gane
 
Jason7227 said:
https://bloodyelbow.com/2023/11/01/ufc-using-francis-ngannou-to-help-case/

New contract change allows UFC to ‘pause’ sunset clauses

John Nash explains the brand new changes to the sunset clause in UFC contracts and why Jon Jones might have lost out on a generational wealth payday against Francis Ngannou.
Similarly, former UFC Heavyweight Champion Francis Ngannou, who PFL signed in May 2023, indicated in the press that PFL offered him more compensation than any other competitor MMA promotion, including UFC. Moreover, it has increasingly drawn athletes away from UFC directly rebutting Plaintiffs’ theory that “elite” MMA athletes would not be willing to leave UFC for competitors. If plaintiff’s allegation in this case and Johnson regarding allegedly exclusionary contracts were correct, UFC fighters would not be signing contracts with competitors.”

*Note: The “Johnson” they refer to is the second antitrust case that Kajan Johnson, C.B. Dollaway, et al launched to cover contract dates that were effective after July 1, 2017.

That’s their argument and it basically means if the UFC had an exclusionary contract and were a monopsony, their fighters couldn’t go and sign contracts with the competitors. Nash figures this could be a stalling tactic by the promotion:


“It just strikes me as an attempt that if the appeal process fails, if the appeal isn’t picked up by the Ninth Circuit, they’re trying to delay the case even longer. I thought it was well written, but if you follow the business, if you follow MMA, the arguments they make don’t quite line up with the reality of how the business, the state of the industry is actually like.”

Brand new change to the sunset clause to prevent another Francis Ngannou
It’s important to remember that Francis Ngannou was able to leave the company by waiting out the sunset clause in his contract. That sunset clause was introduced as a response to the Le et al. v Zuffa antitrust lawsuit and ensured that the promotion couldn’t continuously extend the terms of fighter contracts indefinitely, capping those terms at the five year mark. Before 2017, it did not exist.

Since its inception, the clause has undergone changes, and most recently, a significant change all but ensures the contracted fighter cannot just wait out the length of their contract for release. Nash provides some information and context to the new adjustment:


“The first set of changes to the clause was noted when Taila Santos’ contract was made public after it appeared in an unrelated court case. Two alterations were clear:




    • The five year sunset provision would now kick in on the date of the first fight on the contract, rather than the previous iteration where it began the day you singed the contract
    • The contract could be ‘paused’ in cases of suspension (could possibly include medical suspensions)
A further change has appeared in the newest contracts Nash has been made privy to, as well:

“On top of those changes, a brand new one is here, and it’s even more restrictive. Basically, what it says is that if you turn down fights and the UFC doesn’t think you have a legitimate enough reason to turn down said fights, they can again pause the five year period. Let’s say it’s the third year of a fighter’s contract and they decide, ‘You know what, I don’t like what I’m being offered, I’m just going to wait out my contract’. Well, the UFC can say that you are refusing to take a legitimate offer, and that five year period will be paused. So it ruins the whole purpose of a sunset clause.”
He went on to state,

“So their argument is, ‘Oh, ‘Francis Ngannou was an example of how we didn’t have monopoly power.’ But that would only apply to the brief period that you changed your contracts so they were no longer perpetual. That’s only a couple-year window, which now no longer applies to the reason under the new contracts.”

The biggest loser is Jon Jones
When Jon Jones and Francis Ngannou talks were in the earliest stages a few years ago, Dana White was quick to throw Jones under the bus for asking for an “absurd amount of money” to fight the Cameroonian. Ngannou would champion Jonny’s cause, though, echoing the need for a purse bump for the superfight.


Since then, Ngannou has left the UFC, signed a mega deal with the PFL, fought the lineal heavyweight boxing champion of the world and took him to a contested split decision where many thought he won. Jon Jones, by comparison, signed another restrictive contract and locked himself out of the biggest fight MMA—maybe even all combat sports—has to offer.

Nash figures the odds of that superfight happening are between none and a snowball’s chance in the hot place:

They’d have to co-promote with PFL. That’s never going to happen. They will never co-promote. The next step would be if Ngannou somehow get out of his PFL contract in a reasonable time and then with the UFC, he’s going to want something akin to what he’s making in boxing, right? That might be too much for the UFC to give him because they don’t want to break their business model.


He continued,

“The other step would be for Jon Jones to get out of his contract. The problem is, he just re-signed. My understanding is he probably had a sunset clause and could have waited until next year, been out of that contract, and then fought Ngannou. Everybody I’ve talked to in the industry, they all say that fight is huge. It’d be huge even outside the UFC because of the interest level in it.

If someone fumbled a bag, it might be Jon Jones, because if that fight sells as much as people think, like 1.5 million buys, 1.6, just a huge number of buys that people think it would do, like one of the biggest MMA fights, perhaps the biggest ever, he would have not only doubled what he’s making with the UFC, but quadrupled what they’re paying him. So, he lost out on a generational wealth match and possibly a rematch if they wanted to do it again
Click to expand...

Great post sir, thanks for the information.
 
blaseblase said:
The sunset clause is the only reason Ngannou was able to get out his contract. It says that after 5 years the contract is over, no exceptions. The issue is that the UFC is trying to change it to prevent fighters from doing what he did.

Ideally you wouldn't need a sunset clause but under the current contract it's the only thing they have to get out.
Click to expand...

It’s not the only thing to get out, it’s the only thing that allows you to fight for a competitor.

You can always get out by not fighting anymore (retiring)
 
Kenny Powerth said:
Can you just go in the octagon, lay down, tap out, collect show money, and then wait?
Click to expand...

No one hiring your ass ever again or trust you in a contract.

That’s like going to work and doing nothing so you can get fired to land a better higher paying job.
 
So what are the parameters for "legitimate reason to refuse" and even more so what are the parameters for "legitimate offer"?
 
No one has embarrassed and owned the UFC quite like Francis Ngannou has. War Francis
 
bambammccoy said:
So what are the parameters for "legitimate reason to refuse" and even more so what are the parameters for "legitimate offer"?
Click to expand...
That's always been the curious gray area. Presumably it just has to be a fight the commissions would sanction. In other words, not even in your weight class, just in it or in one you could make (i.e. a weight class up).
 
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