News UFC Dana White are SAVAGES (Sunset Clause)

[Duke Kensington]

Lol how are they possibly considered independent contractors??

 

[jitzmonkey]

Seems archaic to say the least.
Good stuff, man.
Thanks!

You should probably GFYM

There should be no such thing as a sunset clause let alone being able to extend it with any flimsy excuse. UFC is an extortion racket. Honestly hope the fighters get paid the fuck out and those who want it can void their shitty contracts.

This does seem quite predatory; especially since fighters (as far as I know) aren't paid a salary.

I’m not reading all that. I’m just gonna sssume jon Jones snorted an 8ball and powerbomed a disabled, pregnant woman down a flight of stairs. Give me a like if I’m right please.

That's always a safe assumption.

Such shady tactics from the UFC. Making me lose respect for them.

If you are the best and most highest paying promotion fighters naturally would want to be loyal and remain with you.

First they took away sponsorships and now they trying to tie you in for years longer than your contracted length. You essentially cannot wait out your contract anymore. They can keep extending and keep you locked in.

This should be illegal.

One really shouldn't need to take a buyer beware approach to their employment.
This almost comes across as modern day indentured servitude for fighters.

If this is a standard enforceable (I don't know know much about the legal side) contract, then it's definitely going to dissuade the best and the brightest from signing with the UFC.

 

[kingmob6]

Once you sign, Dana owns you in blood.

 

[Poirierfan]

Knew they would conjure up some bullshit after Francis found a way out, fuck Dana.

 

[skylolow]

The 3 kings had a platform and should have used it. Imagine a handful of current champions making an announcement that they demand changes be made. Imagine 3-5 champions threatening to strike if contracts aren't more fighter friendly, and a solid minimum fight wage established. Would the UFC strip three champions of their belts?
Ngannou, Usman, and Izzy had a platform and never used it.

Would've been nice to see.

The fighters have more power than they think and it just isn't at the top of the roster. The UFC has to put shows on to get paid from media deals (main reason why they kept pushing forward during Covid). Fighters strike in any numbers the UFC instantly loses revenue. ESPN, other media outlets, sponsors, and investors/shareholders aren't going to stand idle with the UFC trying to fill cards with junk to keep going. They are invested a UFC product that is held to a certain standard. They would be getting massive pressure from the inside out to resolve the issues. Public perception would easily be on the athletes side.

P.S.: The fighters don't even need to really strike, they can continue to compete while negotiations are going on. They first need get a ruling on if they are employees or independent contractors and move forward accordingly. By no means will it solve all the problems but it will get them a seat at the table and anything is better than nothing like it is now.

 

[Jason7227]

Seems archaic to say the least.
Good stuff, man.
Thanks!





This does seem quite predatory; especially since fighters (as far as I know) aren't paid a salary.



That's always a safe assumption.



One really shouldn't need to take a buyer beware approach to their employment.
This almost comes across as modern day indentured servitude for fighters.

If this is a standard enforceable (I don't know know much about the legal side) contract, then it's definitely going to dissuade the best and the brightest from signing with the UFC.

Don't think these arbitrary clauses will stand muster, it's the fact that the UFC is TRYING this shit almost as if they don't care how it makes them look.

 

[skylolow]

The UFC can get out of the contract whenever they wants , or maintain it as long as they want.

The fighter can never decide when the contract ends, and if he tries to wait it out, the UFC will destroy years of their career and only releases them when their stock is at the lowest.

That's slavery.

Not that its right, but even in sports with unions teams retain your rights if you sit out or even retire. You can't just sit on the sideline and wait x amount of time and leave for another team in most situations.

What the UFC is doing probably is not allowed if challenged in court.

 

[markg171]

Knew they would conjure up some bullshit after Francis found a way out, fuck Dana.

Francis would've still gotten out of his contract under this policy too. He had fulfilled all of his fights in his contract, not was refusing fights he still owed. He'd still be free to leave once he hit his 5 year mark exactly like he did.

But you won't see this because you blocked me. So have fun continuing being an idiot.

 

[Frank Kain]

TLDR;

Jon Dwight Jones dropped the ball, for over 3 years,
and is still fuckin' up ... by staying with the UFC.

love your AV…the DENNIS system is one of my favorite episodes. The best is still when Frank pimps Dennis. ‘No more dinners, going straight to bangin.’

 

[jitzmonkey]

Don't think these arbitrary clauses will stand muster, it's the fact that the UFC is TRYING this shit almost as if they don't care how it makes them look.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[Paul E Gensinger]

Would've been nice to see.

The fighters have more power than they think and it just isn't at the top of the roster. The UFC has to put shows on to get paid from media deals (main reason why they kept pushing forward during Covid). Fighters strike in any numbers the UFC instantly loses revenue. ESPN, other media outlets, sponsors, and investors/shareholders aren't going to stand idle with the UFC trying to fill cards with junk to keep going. They are invested a UFC product that is held to a certain standard. They would be getting massive pressure from the inside out to resolve the issues. Public perception would easily be on the athletes side.

P.S.: The fighters don't even need to really strike, they can continue to compete while negotiations are going on. They first need get a ruling on if they are employees or independent contractors and move forward accordingly. By no means will it solve all the problems but it will get them a seat at the table and anything is better than nothing like it is now.

The champs make money.
And you know what, across the board, a bunch of selfish tools who won't speak out for fellow fighters.
Strickland being a serious exception.

And DWCS is human cockfighting to make 20-40 grand a year. Great.

For a guy who has made multiple generational wealth because of fighters, how does he pay someone 10 grand to step into the cage on a televised event?

The writers actors strike is affecting their industry and they are way better off than fighters.

 

[jx820]

It sounds like the TLDR is: Sunset window changes from 5 calendar years to 5 years of active competition. Medical suspensions and intentionally sitting on the shelf are not ways of gaming out the suset window.

It of course favors the UFC, but it's not exactly "unfair". It's closing a loophole that allowed fighters to not honor the intention of the contract in good faith.

 

[HaulParris]

https://bloodyelbow.com/2023/11/01/ufc-using-francis-ngannou-to-help-case/

New contract change allows UFC to ‘pause’ sunset clauses

John Nash explains the brand new changes to the sunset clause in UFC contracts and why Jon Jones might have lost out on a generational wealth payday against Francis Ngannou.
Similarly, former UFC Heavyweight Champion Francis Ngannou, who PFL signed in May 2023, indicated in the press that PFL offered him more compensation than any other competitor MMA promotion, including UFC. Moreover, it has increasingly drawn athletes away from UFC directly rebutting Plaintiffs’ theory that “elite” MMA athletes would not be willing to leave UFC for competitors. If plaintiff’s allegation in this case and Johnson regarding allegedly exclusionary contracts were correct, UFC fighters would not be signing contracts with competitors.”

*Note: The “Johnson” they refer to is the second antitrust case that Kajan Johnson, C.B. Dollaway, et al launched to cover contract dates that were effective after July 1, 2017.

That’s their argument and it basically means if the UFC had an exclusionary contract and were a monopsony, their fighters couldn’t go and sign contracts with the competitors. Nash figures this could be a stalling tactic by the promotion:


“It just strikes me as an attempt that if the appeal process fails, if the appeal isn’t picked up by the Ninth Circuit, they’re trying to delay the case even longer. I thought it was well written, but if you follow the business, if you follow MMA, the arguments they make don’t quite line up with the reality of how the business, the state of the industry is actually like.”

Brand new change to the sunset clause to prevent another Francis Ngannou
It’s important to remember that Francis Ngannou was able to leave the company by waiting out the sunset clause in his contract. That sunset clause was introduced as a response to the Le et al. v Zuffa antitrust lawsuit and ensured that the promotion couldn’t continuously extend the terms of fighter contracts indefinitely, capping those terms at the five year mark. Before 2017, it did not exist.

Since its inception, the clause has undergone changes, and most recently, a significant change all but ensures the contracted fighter cannot just wait out the length of their contract for release. Nash provides some information and context to the new adjustment:


“The first set of changes to the clause was noted when Taila Santos’ contract was made public after it appeared in an unrelated court case. Two alterations were clear:

• 
  
  
  • The five year sunset provision would now kick in on the date of the first fight on the contract, rather than the previous iteration where it began the day you singed the contract
  • The contract could be ‘paused’ in cases of suspension (could possibly include medical suspensions)

A further change has appeared in the newest contracts Nash has been made privy to, as well:

“On top of those changes, a brand new one is here, and it’s even more restrictive. Basically, what it says is that if you turn down fights and the UFC doesn’t think you have a legitimate enough reason to turn down said fights, they can again pause the five year period. Let’s say it’s the third year of a fighter’s contract and they decide, ‘You know what, I don’t like what I’m being offered, I’m just going to wait out my contract’. Well, the UFC can say that you are refusing to take a legitimate offer, and that five year period will be paused. So it ruins the whole purpose of a sunset clause.”

and Francis Ngannou talks were in the earliest stages a few years ago, Dana White was quick to throw Jones under the bus for asking for an “absurd amount of money” to fight the Cameroonian. Ngannou would champion Jonny’s cause, though, echoing the need for a purse bump for the superfight.

champion of the world and took him to a contested split decision where many thought he won. Jon Jones, by comparison, signed another restrictive contract and locked himself out of the biggest fight MMA—maybe even all combat sports—has to offer.

Nash figures the odds of that superfight happening are between none and a snowball’s chance in the hot place:

“They’d have to co-promote with PFL. That’s never going to happen. They will never co-promote. The next step would be if Ngannou somehow get out of his PFL contract in a reasonable time and then with the UFC, he’s going to want something akin to what he’s making in boxing, right? That might be too much for the UFC to give him because they don’t want to break their business model other step would be for Jon Jones to get out of his contract. The problem is, he just re-signed. My understanding is he probably had a sunset clause and could have waited until next year, been out of that contract, and then fought Ngannou. Everybody I’ve talked to in the industry, they all say that fight is huge. It’d be huge even outside the UFC because of the interest level in it.

If someone fumbled a bag, it might be Jon Jones, because if that fight sells as much as people think, like 1.5 million buys, 1.6, just a huge number of buys that people think it would do, like one of the biggest MMA fights, perhaps the biggest ever, he would have not only doubled what he’s making with the UFC, but quadrupled what they’re paying him. So, he lost out on a generational wealth match and possibly a rematch if they wanted to do it again.”

Thank You for the info

 

[Jason7227]

Thank You for the info

Welcome!

 

[Jason7227]

It sounds like the TLDR is: Sunset window changes from 5 calendar years to 5 years of active competition. Medical suspensions and intentionally sitting on the shelf are not ways of gaming out the suset window.

It of course favors the UFC, but it's not exactly "unfair". It's closing a loophole that allowed fighters to not honor the intention of the contract in good faith.

The above is true, I agree. The problem is these lengthening of clauses wouldn't be all that necessary if fighters felt they were getting good deals. The UFC didn't care in the past because you had nowhere to go. If you played games you got released and likely got into some promotion that paid way less. Or, you just faded into obscurity. Social media, the Internet, Instagram and the like has made it possible to market yourself and change your strata on your own. That's tough to keep up when your promotion has an archaic structure trying to control everything.

PFL and the Ngannou contract sort of gives an example of a fair contract that can work for both parties. That scares the shit out of Dana.

 

[don't ask]

Fuck the UFC and all the shitbags who run it.

 

[Tweak896]

This is why the law sucks. People foolishly believe it protects the people, but really it's for the rich who can afford the best lawyers and management, which isn't the common man. This is why the rich love the legal and pretend its to help the helpless. But shit like this is really who the law is for today.

 

[HHJ]

"The biggest loser is Jon Jones"

Well DUH

 

[jx820]

The above is true, I agree. The problem is these lengthening of clauses wouldn't be all that necessary if fighters felt they were getting good deals. The UFC didn't care in the past because you had nowhere to go. If you played games you got released and likely got into some promotion that paid way less. Or, you just faded into obscurity. Social media, the Internet, Instagram and the like has made it possible to market yourself and change your strata on your own. That's tough to keep up when your promotion has an archaic structure trying to control everything.

PFL and the Ngannou contract sort of gives an example of a fair contract that can work for both parties. That scares the shit out of Dana.

I think it remains to be seen if the PFL will find that the contract works for them. They seem OK with it so far, but to date, they're out the cost of a signing bonus, and haven't so much as booked him in a fight. I'd be kind of surprised if he does MMA in the PFL as his next fight.

I think Francis got a very good deal in his PFL contract and I think that's what managers and agents should be pushing for.

Conversely I think most of the promotions that have made a big show of offering fighter friendly contracts in the past (Affliction, Pride, Strikeforce) have long since failed.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

all i got out of this was Jon Jones ducked Ngannou by signing that restrictive contract