UFC Boxing Edition

The Batkilt said:
Yeah, it's far more about how strikers adapt their skills into MMA and adjust accordingly.

But a lot of vaunted strikers in MMA have been overhyped by Rogan or Zuffa. Which has led to the backlash any time someone breaks through and their striking is praised.
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What do you mean? K-1 level striking is legit and can't be touched inside a cage.

Also, I hope you clap exactly like you avatar whenever you read an underwhelming post.
 
cottagecheesefan said:
Hi there everyone. I take steroids every day leading up to a fight, except the day before and day of a fight. All those days are OUT of competition.

So I pass, right.... RIGHT? It's not like I have to meticulously cycle those drugs and stop them weeks prior to competition, or use a masking agent.
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1. This is an ignorant argument and not the same thing.
2. Steroids are banned OUT of competition.
 
wilddeuces said:
What do you mean? K-1 level striking is legit and can't be touched inside a cage.

Also, I hope you clap exactly like you avatar whenever you read an underwhelming post.
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I mean that the key for a striker switching to MMA is more about how they adjust their striking to suit MMA rather than what level they competed at in a previous sport. Sometimes it's actually better not to be world class at a discipline as it's harder to adjust.

And I indeed often clap like Walder Frey.
 
cottagecheesefan said:
If anything, that supports their claim. The one he has the least amount of time to over hydrate for (which can mask THC metabolites), came back positive.

Based on the tests, he was clean before right before the fight.

He then tested positive after. Which shows he smoked right after the first one, meaning he was high IN competition.

Then he had time to overhydrate, or take a masking agent.

BOOM, burden of proof done. Thanks for supporting the NSAC.
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lmao if you think he smoked during or right after the fight. That still isn't proof, so you're wrong. No proof, that's a guestimate. I would hate for you to be involved with law.
 
The Batkilt said:
I mean that the key for a striker switching to MMA is more about how they adjust their striking to suit MMA rather than what level they competed at in a previous sport. Sometimes it's actually better not to be world class at a discipline as it's harder to adjust.

And I indeed often clap like Walder Frey.
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That's a pretty good point, we have seen high level strikers who have achieved things struggle in MMA before. I say whatever works for guys is good for them. There are many different styles a fighter can use and be successful with, look at Lyoto Machida, you would never teach a guy to fight like he does.
 
robjenkins2 said:
He passed the first one before the fight, he failed the second one directly after the fight, then he passed the last one about an hour after the second one. The second one was much higher than 300 ng/ml, I think around 700 actually. It's in an article somewhere. When you work out and sweat, those metabolites get released from your fat cells through sweating, which most likely is why he failed that second one.
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Yeah, it was the 2nd one. I don't know enough about the procedures and how high the levels released into the blood would be just from burning fat (those levels seem extremely high to begin with) to speculate on whether those numbers might suggest a faulty test, masking agents, or anything else. What I do know is that he was in violation of the rules and in any situation in a fight that is tested according to WADA guidelines, his levels exceeded the legal amount by at least 2x. There are fighters who routinely smoke weed out of competition and don't constantly fail in competition marijuana tests, let alone at least double the allowed amount because of the fat burned while exercising. Again, I don't know enough about how high one would expect the levels in the blood to be due to exercise, or if one could expect those levels to go down drastically in 30 minutes. I am fairly sure that he'd be found to be in the wrong (whether he should or should not be might be another discussion) by just about any organization that conformed to WADA guidelines, though.
 
Nick Diaz said he's not staying at MW after this fight. I guess he's already expecting to get WRECKED
 
JayElectra said:
Yeah, it was the 2nd one. I don't know enough about the procedures and how high the levels released into the blood would be just from burning fat (those levels seem extremely high to begin with) to speculate on whether those numbers might suggest a faulty test, masking agents, or anything else. What I do know is that he was in violation of the rules and in any situation in a fight that is tested according to WADA guidelines, his levels exceeded the legal amount by at least 2x. There are fighters who routinely smoke weed out of competition and don't constantly fail in competition marijuana tests, let alone at least double the allowed amount because of the fat burned while exercising. Again, I don't know enough about how high one would expect the levels in the blood to be due to exercise, or if one could expect those levels to go down drastically in 30 minutes. I am fairly sure that he'd be found to be in the wrong (whether he should or should not be might be another discussion) by just about any organization that conformed to WADA guidelines, though.
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His brother Nate is one of those guys who smokes but has never failed a test. That's not the point though, the test cannot prove that he used in competition, a urinalysis doesn't tell you that. How can you convict someone and punish them based on that? I guess we will see when it goes to an actual court.
 
Nick was never really vocal about competing at 185lbs full time so much as he'd do it if it was a big fight. He doesn't fight because he loves it - he's in it for the money, so the highest profile and biggest purse is what he's after. Anderson was pretty much the only fight at 185lbs he was angling for.
 
robjenkins2 said:
lmao if you think he smoked during or right after the fight. That still isn't proof, so you're wrong. No proof, that's a guestimate. I would hate for you to be involved with law.
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That is what the evidence presented by you indicates. Sorry you are a bad lawyer for Mr. Diaz.
 
I thought Nick Diaz threw a tantrum and retired anyway?
 
robjenkins2 said:
lmao if you think he smoked during or right after the fight. That still isn't proof, so you're wrong. No proof, that's a guestimate. I would hate for you to be involved with law.
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I don't think WADA would claim that their levels unequivocally prove use during the fight. They'd simply argue that levels that high strongly suggest that the athlete was under the influence of the substance during the the in competition timeframe. Again, I can't say how effective those levels are in determining in competition use, but that's the clear rationale behind what they do. I can say that the number of positives for THC that USADA has found across all the sports that they test since the levels were raised to 150 ng/ml have drastically gone down.
 
He retired but pretty much left the door open for a big money fight.
 
JayElectra said:
I don't think WADA would claim that their levels unequivocally prove use during the fight. They'd simply argue that levels that high strongly suggest that the athlete was under the influence of the substance during the the in competition timeframe. Again, I can't say how effective those levels are in determining in competition use, but that's the clear rationale behind what they do. I can say that the number of positives for THC that USADA has found across all the sports that they test since the levels were raised to 150 ng/ml have drastically gone down.
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Having metabolites in your system doesn't mean that you were high during competition.
 
The Batkilt said:
He retired but pretty much left the door open for a big money fight.
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So he's like Bernard Hopkins? Willing to take multi million dollar paydays that he didn't earn?

Or is it multi hundred dollar paydays? This is UFC we're talking about.
 
robjenkins2 said:
Having metabolites in your system doesn't mean that you were high during competition.
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No, but having certain levels does suggest it according to WADA guidelines. Again, not anything to do with the NSAC, really, in any sport that is subject to the worldwide overarching anti-doping organization, his levels strongly suggest that he was influenced by the active ingredients in marijuana in competition. Now I don't know how to interpret the level of certainty that those levels suggest and I'd suggest neither are you.

Perhaps marijuana should not be tested for in competition, at all. I recall Dick Pound, the former head of WADA who is interviewed a fair amount up here in Canada (as he is Canadian), suggested that there are many within WADA and involved in drug testing in sport that don't feel particularly strongly about marijuana being a banned substance in or out of competition, though, there is a sizable contingent that see it as a substance that puts those who are under the influence of its active ingredients at undue risk in competition. At present, the official position of WADA is that it presents undue risk to athletes competing under it and as a result they set those levels so as to have the best chance of catching those who are under the influence in competition while avoiding sanctioning those who were under the influence only outside of competition. The problem about your reasoning that the levels don't ensure absolute certainty that he was under the influence during competition is that the same reasoning could conceivably be used for certain stimulants that are banned in competition, but I don't think anyone would want to be erring on the side of doubt with regards to stimulants in competition. As long as WADA determines it should be banned (which is debatable, certainly), it would seem that the testing they use is reasonable even if it doesn't prove with absolute certainty that he was necessarily under the influence during competition (again, I'm not sure if his extremely high levels more or less confirm that he was under the influence, anyway, or the effectiveness of the 150 ng/ml threshold in determining whether the athlete was under the influence in competition).
 
JayElectra said:
No, but having certain levels does suggest it according to WADA guidelines. Again, not anything to do with the NSAC, really, in any sport that is subject to the worldwide overarching anti-doping organization, his levels strongly suggest that he was influenced by the active ingredients in marijuana in competition. Now I don't know how to interpret the level of certainty that those levels suggest and I'd suggest neither are you.

Perhaps marijuana should not be tested for in competition, at all. I recall Dick Pound, the former head of WADA who is interviewed a fair amount up here in Canada (as he is Canadian), suggested that there are many within WADA and involved in drug testing in sport that don't feel particularly strongly about marijuana being a banned substance in or out of competition, though, there is a sizable contingent that see it as a substance that puts those who are under the influence of its active ingredients at undue risk in competition. At present, the official position of WADA is that it presents undue risk to athletes competing under it and as a result they set those levels so as to have the best chance of catching those who are under the influence in competition while avoiding sanctioning those who were under the influence only outside of competition. The problem about your reasoning that the levels don't ensure absolute certainty that he was under the influence during competition is that the same reasoning could conceivably be used for certain stimulants that are banned in competition, but I don't think anyone would want to be erring on the side of doubt with regards to stimulants in competition. As long as WADA determines it should be banned (which is debatable, certainly), it would seem that the testing they use is reasonable even if it doesn't prove with absolute certainty that he was necessarily under the influence during competition (again, I'm not sure if his extremely high levels more or less confirm that he was under the influence, anyway, or the effectiveness of the 150 ng/ml threshold in determining whether the athlete was under the influence in competition).
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That's exactly the point, cannot prove it to convict and punish someone especially with the severity that they did. I agree, they shouldn't even be testing for it at all, it's not a PED and there is no reason for them to be testing for it. WADA says that it is banned in competition but not out of it, that's the issue and discrepancy here. Their own rules work against themselves. There needs to be not only rules overhaul but personnel overhaul as well. Those people are not fit to govern combat sport's athletes. If they wanted to punish him for not filling out the prefight questionnaire correctly, then fine. That's not what they did here though.
 
Joe Rogan says that Nick Diaz has the kind of trash talk that makes you reevaluate your life. I'm guessing that earns him those pay days. Dat money.
 
robjenkins2 said:
That's exactly the point, cannot prove it to convict and punish someone especially with the severity that they did. I agree, they shouldn't even be testing for it at all, it's not a PED and there is no reason for them to be testing for it. WADA says that it is banned in competition but not out of it, that's the issue and discrepancy here. Their own rules work against themselves. There needs to be not only rules overhaul but personnel overhaul as well. Those people are not fit to govern combat sport's athletes. If they wanted to punish him for not filling out the prefight questionnaire correctly, then fine. That's not what they did here though.
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WADA or the NSAC? WADA's reasoning for banning it is that it puts athletes at undue risk, not because it's a PED. I think that might be questionable, but nowhere do they cite that it's a PED and that's why it's banned. If they have genuine reason to think that, erring on the side of caution and using a 150 ng/ml level that, according to them, makes it much more likely that those who use it only out of competition won't be caught, likely makes sense. The argument that one can't prove with absolute certainty that they used in competition could conceivably be used for stimulants (which are banned both because of their danger to the athlete taking them and their PED qualities) and it's clearly an irresponsible way to approach drug testing in sport, I think. As long as they assert that levels over 150 ng/ml strongly suggest in competition effects of THC (this is what I understand their position is, though, I can't confirm it through my own knowledge) and that such effects put an athlete at an undue risk (which is very debatable), I think the 150 ng/ml threshold makes sense even if doesn't mean with absolute certainty that they were under the effects of THC.
 
The Batkilt said:
Joe Rogan says that Nick Diaz has the kind of trash talk that makes you reevaluate your life. I'm guessing that earns him those pay days. Dat money.
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He's never losing to a brazilian boy.
 
JayElectra said:
WADA or the NSAC? WADA's reasoning for banning it is that it puts athletes at undue risk, not because it's a PED. I think that might be questionable, but nowhere do they cite that it's a PED and that's why it's banned. If they have genuine reason to think that, erring on the side of caution and using a 150 ng/ml level that, according to them, makes it much more likely that those who use it only out of competition won't be caught, likely makes sense. The argument that one can't prove with absolute certainty that they used in competition could conceivably be used for stimulants (which are banned both because of their danger to the athlete taking them and their PED qualities) and it's clearly an irresponsible way to approach drug testing in sport, I think. As long as they assert that levels over 150 ng/ml strongly suggest in competition effects of THC (this is what I understand their position is, though, I can't confirm it through my own knowledge) and that such effects put an athlete at an undue risk (which is very debatable), I think the 150 ng/ml threshold makes sense even if doesn't mean with absolute certainty that they were under the effects of THC.
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The NSAC, they are inept. What risk does it put on the athletes? This is the same NSAC that discredits USADA who governs the Olympics and now the UFC. The NSAC aren't scientists, or even knowledgeable in any of this and that's pretty apparent. Needs to be overhaul with them, look at how good Andy Foster is doing in California. Another joke is that the NSAC acts like they are broke and could never afford advanced drug testing when they make millions of dollars off these shows. Imagine how much money Floyd makes them, or GSP made them, or Silva, or Manny. They are a corrupt organization and every writer who follows combat sports agrees and sees through them.
 
Wanderlei4Life said:
Now we need that gif of Lyoto and Anderson making it rain
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1342248390790-1.gif
 
robjenkins2 said:
The NSAC, they are inept. What risk does it put on the athletes? This is the same NSAC that discredits USADA who governs the Olympics and now the UFC. The NSAC aren't scientists, or even knowledgeable in any of this and that's pretty apparent. Needs to be overhaul with them, look at how good Andy Foster is doing in California. Another joke is that the NSAC acts like they are broke and could never afford advanced drug testing when they make millions of dollars off these shows. Imagine how much money Floyd makes them, or GSP made them, or Silva, or Manny. They are a corrupt organization and every writer who follows combat sports agrees and sees through them.
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I'm not disagreeing about issues with the commissions in several states including Nevada, they've been long talked about in boxing, and more recently in MMA, but if we're talking about marijuana being banned, that's a WADA guideline and would be found in every single sport that uses their drug testing guidelines in the world.
 
Saw a stat where Nick averages 15 strikes thrown per minute to Anderson's 5, wonder if he can outwork him over 5 rounds or get inside and hurt him with combinations.
 
JayElectra said:
I'm not disagreeing about issues with the commissions in several states including Nevada, they've been long talked about in boxing, and more recently in MMA, but if we're talking about marijuana being banned, that's a WADA guideline and would be found in every single sport that uses their drug testing guidelines in the world.
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You and I both know that marijuana is banned due to political reasons. With the progressive movement across the country recently I would venture to say that it won't be banned for much longer.
 
robjenkins2 said:
Saw a stat where Nick averages 15 strikes thrown per minute to Anderson's 5, wonder if he can outwork him over 5 rounds or get inside and hurt him with combinations.
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Spoiler alert: it's the latter
 
robjenkins2 said:
You and I both know that marijuana is banned due to political reasons. With the progressive movement across the country recently I would venture to say that it won't be banned for much longer.
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I mean, it's the World Anti-Doping Agency, it's not just about America. Having a BAC over a certain level is also banned in competition, regardless of alcohol's legality. Not saying that they have the same effects as they different substances but I don't think the position that being high could make a fight more dangerous is ridiculous. For something to be banned it just has to represent an actual or potential health risk to an athlete. Now, if it were up to me, with all of my personal experience with weed, I don't really think it needs to be banned in competition, but I don't think the argument that they make to ban it has no merit, either. I just don't think the risk is substantial enough.
 
I hope Silva gives Diaz a scary beating.
 
robjenkins2 said:
You and I both know that marijuana is banned due to political reasons. With the progressive movement across the country recently I would venture to say that it won't be banned for much longer.
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Aspirin is legal prety much everywhere but its banned by the ACs.

See, fans think that their opinion of weed is somehow relevant here. It is not.
 
I just read a story on Nick Diaz and getting suspended after the Condit fight 3 years ago, it is like literally the exact same story but with Condit's name in place of Silva.

The guy is just not that bright and probably should take a break from getting punched in the head anyway.
 
Seano said:
I just read a story on Nick Diaz and getting suspended after the Condit fight 3 years ago, it is like literally the exact same story but with Condit's name in place of Silva.

The guy is just not that bright and probably should take a break from getting punched in the head anyway.
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I'm glad you know what's best for people and their careers. Any more words of wisdom o' wise one?
 
robjenkins2 said:
I thin Anderson will hang out around the cage too much and it will hurt him.
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I think Anderson never leaves the center of the ring. He has no reason to back up against the cage, that is a habit he has against guys who want to take him down--- he plants his hips and back on the cage for balance.

When people try to strike with Anderson, he doesn't move anywhere.
 
Nick Diaz: The UFC's biggest PPV star come 2017.
 
Jukai said:
I think Anderson never leaves the center of the ring. He has no reason to back up against the cage, that is a habit he has against guys who want to take him down--- he plants his hips and back on the cage for balance.

When people try to strike with Anderson, he doesn't move anywhere.
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He might do it just to do it, he did against Bonnar and let him throw combinations.
 
Prime Jones vs Prime Spartacus and Optimus Prime vs Prime Fedor threads going on in the heavies right now.
 
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