UFC "best boxer" hilarity

[OldBoy91]

After watching Jake Paul emasculate UFC champions I have to admit boxers are the superior fighters.

In boxing. There's a reason Jake isn't calling out these guys to an MMA fight.

 

[corrupted]

Best boxer in MMA can only be argued as "Best MMA boxer Vs MMA fighter"

Until they're in there with an actual boxer, it really is very difficult to tell. Unless they're truly awful (insert Honda shadow boxing and Askren spinning shit). Then of course we can say they're awful. But how they are at ACTUAL boxing is something you can only really work out AFTER they've had a pure boxing match

 

[OldBoy91]

Best boxer in MMA can only be argued as "Best MMA boxer Vs MMA fighter"

Until they're in there with an actual boxer, it really is very difficult to tell. Unless they're truly awful (insert Honda shadow boxing and Askren spinning shit). Then of course we can say they're awful. But how they are at ACTUAL boxing is something you can only really work out AFTER they've had a pure boxing match

I don't think anybody is insinuating that a good MMA boxer can compete in boxing with a good boxer, or at lease I hope no one is. That would be silly. Every single MMA guy would get outclassed in a pure boxing scenario.

MMA boxing by necessity is quite a bit different than pure boxing, and bare knuckle boxing is different again. You can't stand like a boxer when leg kicks are coming your way. You can't slip and move your head the same way as a boxer when head kicks are coming behind the punches and feints.

This is why I don't get the comparison or why MMA guys always want to test themselves against boxers. Boxers at least seem smart enough to realise they would be out of their depth under MMA rules.

 

[corrupted]

I don't think anybody is insinuating that a good MMA boxer can compete in boxing with a good boxer, or at lease I hope no one is. That would be silly. Every single MMA guy would get outclassed in a pure boxing scenario.

MMA boxing by necessity is quite a bit different than pure boxing, and bare knuckle boxing is different again. You can't stand like a boxer when leg kicks are coming your way. You can't slip and move your head the same way as a boxer when head kicks are coming behind the punches and feints.

This is why I don't get the comparison or why MMA guys always want to test themselves against boxers. Boxers at least seem smart enough to realise they would be out of their depth under MMA rules.

Yup. 100%

 

[tramendous]

I remember people thought Max Holloway had “elite boxing skills”





Average MMA fans know nothing about boxing… they’re usually just obsessed with HL reel offense, meaningless movement/output, and completely disregard defense.

They mean relative to other MMA fighters. Just because someone thinks an mma fighter has elite grappling doesnt mean theyre ADCC champs or olympic calibre wrestlers or something.

 

[GolovKing]

In MMA it ends up being that power and other physical attributes are much more of a game changer than in pure boxing. Like ngannou isn't technical at all but nobody can throw hands with him because he's just too big, powerful and explosive. I bet a lot of the guys he's KOed like stipe would probably fair a lot better in a pure boxing match with 10 oz gloves. Same thing with Conor and Dustin. Dustin has better technique than Conor and I know people like to say he outboxed him but really he had to turn the fights into MMA matches in order to eventually catch Conor. He knew trying to just throw hands only was bad and Conor was getting the better of him early on. Just recently we saw the same thing with Yan and O'Malley. I guarantee Yan would beat O'Malley in an actual boxing match but in MMA, the reach, and power is just too dangerous to try to get into a boxing match with those 4 oz gloves on

 

[dont_axe]

Without question, the best boxer to ever compete in the octagon was James "Lights Out" Toney. It didn't go so well...
Any subjective ranking of "elite boxers in the UFC" has to factor in take-down defense or it has absolutely no meaning in the context of MMA.

Exactly why MMA fighters are warmly welcomed into a ring, yet fighting cages seem to repel most boxers.
Weird phenomenon.

 

[HaulParris]

My issue with "great boxing for MMA" isn't even with strikes absorbed/landed - it's commentators like Rogan j:zzing their pants over "next level footwork" of Cruz and Edgar. Do they bounce around a lot - Yes. Is it actually great footwork - No.

It served a purpose of confusing their lower- to mid-tier opponents (whose "boxing for MMA" consisted of a pawing jab and an overhand), but as the sport evolved (and as they faced dudes with actual solid fundamentals like Aldo), all that bouncing around was shown to be worthless.

 

[OldBoy91]

My issue with "great boxing for MMA" isn't even with strikes absorbed/landed - it's commentators like Rogan j:zzing their pants over "next level footwork" of Cruz and Edgar. Do they bounce around a lot - Yes. Is it actually great footwork - No.

It served a purpose of confusing their lower- to mid-tier opponents (whose "boxing for MMA" consisted of a pawing jab and an overhand), but as the sport evolved (and as they faced dudes with actual solid fundamentals like Aldo), all that bouncing around was shown to be worthless.

Or guys like Calvin Kattar. Who doesn't even have any footwork.

It was hilarious watching the buildup to the Allen/Kattar fight. With all the supposed experts and people who tell you who to bet on for a living saying that Kattar has "elite MMA boxing" and that Allen would have to look for takedowns to stand a chance with him.

Yeah Kattar, who has no footwork, no defense and telegraphs everything about 3 seconds before he does it. A guy who takes tons of damage against basic wrestle boxers who only have a jab and an overhand right.

Against Arnold Allen, a guy who actually does have good MMA boxing, his footwork, lateral movement, head movement are lightyears beyond anything Kattar offers, and "experts" were telling everyone he desperately needed a takedown.

 

[Clark Rogers]

People need to stop pretending that MMA striking, even success there, is anything like real boxing.

 

[Lawrence]

My barometer?

Footwork ? Well it's MMA so footwork ain't the same.

Who rolls with punches/strikes ?

Anderson is gone

Who else?

It's a short list.

 

[Mayonnaiseandjelly]

Ts has the obsession

What obsession? Pointing out some amusing narratives. I think boxing is fuckin lame. Don’t be fragile

 

[Ghostoftheville]

shit thread, this is like saying GSP’s MMA wrestling wasn’t good wrestling because if he got denied once or someone got up. MMA Boxing is about its effect on winning. Yeah Diaz bros take damage but their boxing set up their BJJ, in Nicks case it made him a world champion and in Nate’s he got an underdog win on McGregor who was easily the most feared striker at the time who immediately turned into a panic wrestler after being stunned. Nate’s boxing has rocked Leon Edwards the current WW champ and lead to a victory over Tony. Y’all have this obsession with perfection in MMA and it’s cringey af. UFC has brainwashed a lot of you to be this way because they have a revolving door of fighters and if you’re not undefeated you basically get pushed back to the end of the line.

Terrible take, and that comparison to start the whole thing off makes zero sense in relation to the topic.
OP's pointing out terrible fundamentals that get ignored in mma by fans who love to repeat the legitimate argument of not being able to utilize boxing stances in mma, without understanding why.

 

[Benoitthegr8]

A “shitty UFC boxer” will still look like a pro Vs a Joe against the average sherdogger or untrained guy. There’s only a couple of guys like Shields and Askren who wouldn’t.

Boxing is harder than it looks. Unless you have had specific training you will look like a spazz.

Paddy Pimblett is a BJJ can compared to the elite but there’s a video of him submitting 10 marines one after the other.

A fair video representation of what your average sherdogger would look like trying boxing for the first time;

I clicked this video out of curiosity and lost fight IQ

 

[Starman]

You do realize that most are speaking of boxing in comparison to other MMA fighters and relative to MMA as a hole.

Whole.

 

[Harlekin]

I would argue though that Wilder is not fighting in a golden age of heavyweight boxing skills.

We are not in the golden era of boxing heavyweight skills.
Because we are in the golden era of size. The bigger, the less skilled on average. Center of gravity and weight thing.
Ali would be a cruiserweight today, who could be a light heavyweight
Dempsey and Marciano would cut to super welter nowadays
With quite a lot of exceptions they got on average ~5cm bigger every 30-40 years


Lennox 196
Valuev 213
Vitali 201
Wladimir 198
Wilder 201
Joshua 198
Fury 206

Tyson 178
Ali 191
Spinks 185
Frazier 182

marciano 178
Louis 188
Dempsey 185
Tunney 183
Walcott 183
Patterson 183

Sullivan 179
Fitzsimmons 182
Hart 182
Burns 170
Johnson 184

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

After watching Jake Paul emasculate UFC champions I have to admit boxers are the superior fighters.

The "superior" fighter is the one that wins under rules that dont ban 80% of their opponents skillset.....

 

[rear naked ankle pick]

Proven many times on many occasions that boxing is indeed a superior sport and MMA fans are angry about it

 

[getupandfightsuckah!]

My issue with "great boxing for MMA" isn't even with strikes absorbed/landed - it's commentators like Rogan j:zzing their pants over "next level footwork" of Cruz and Edgar. Do they bounce around a lot - Yes. Is it actually great footwork - No.

It served a purpose of confusing their lower- to mid-tier opponents (whose "boxing for MMA" consisted of a pawing jab and an overhand), but as the sport evolved (and as they faced dudes with actual solid fundamentals like Aldo), all that bouncing around was shown to be worthless.

Worthless? Cruz’ footwork caused TJ Dillashaw to wiff on the majority of his shots, and TJ is most certainly not a low level striker.

 

[theTKDguy]

Best boxer in the UFC is Alexander Volkanovski, no doubt.

Yes