PBP UFC 256: Figueiredo vs. Moreno - Main Card PBP Discussion: 10:00 pm ET/7:00 pm PT

Who Wins?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Holland & Fiz PotN

Fig & More FoTN
 
It's been a blast, Sherdoggers! I'm outta here. Good will to all, have a happy holiday season.
 
awesome fights !!! i miss prime Cigano tho, he just cant take a punch anymore :(
 
Cooliox said:
One judge literally gave the 5th round to Moreno
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I mean, what can I say, that judge obviously had some kind of bias because Moreno literally landed no relevant shots in that round, Figgy landed less than the other rounds but still he was clearly ahead on striking, no discussion really...
 
How many times have we seen a fighter do nothing in round 5 thinking they've won the fight?

Really annoying I wish Moreno gave it more.

I really dislike Fig. He's one of these psycho cunts like Chamzat and Paul Harris that really like hurting people.

Junior needs to seriously retire now. He just turtles up as soon as he gets hit.
 
Really great card , co main & main delivered
Do Bronx is on fire
 
Been saying Nate Diaz is a better, more skilled fighter than Tony Ferguson for a long time now.

Hopefully people realize just how true that is now

Diaz has never gotten the credit he deserves because people look at his record and ignore his skillset

Tony comparatively has gotten more credit for his skills than he actually deserves
 
Ozze said:
You're getting it confused my man.
He didn't get any takedowns on the third. He was actually taken down by Fig.
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you're right, the 4th is when he got the TDs.

Guess they gave it to him based on activity and landing a few more shots even though Figgy did more damage. I thought it was a close round (if u check my posts at time of fight)
 
MescalineDreams said:
Been saying Nate Diaz is a better, more skilled fighter than Tony Ferguson for a long time now.

Hopefully people realize just how true that is now

Diaz has never gotten the credit he deserves because people look at his record and ignore his skillset

Tony comparatively has gotten more credit for his skills than he actually deserves
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uh wut? He is given more credit than Nate because while Nate was going around being a 0.500 fighter, Tony went undefeated and against very good opposition.
 
JSN said:
uh wut? He is given more credit than Nate because while Nate was going around being a 0.500 fighter, Tony went undefeated and against very good opposition.
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Yeah. That's the logic dumb people use. All due respect.

They look at records. Not skills.

Nate is one of the better boxers in the sport. One of the few mma fighters who has regularly had an elite top 5 p4p boxer as a sparring partner for most of his career.

On top of having every attribute Tony does in terms of heart, spirit, cardio etc.

Nate is also a 2nd degree gracie black belt who's been training with kron gracie( Ricksons son) for the last 6 years.

When it comes to boxing and jiu jitsu. He is better than almost everyone in the division.

Nate also basically started his career in the UFC. A lot of those losses were in the younger portion of his career. During the latter portion, he was always up near the top of the division.

Lawler was in a similar position and he rose up to become champion. Masvidal also had a bunch of losses and came on in the latter portion of his career.

Fighters evolve. Everyone wants to ignore that Nate actually improved a lot and really hit his prime around 30. People still want to define him by those old losses.

It's shitty analysis. Plain and simple.

I believe Nate is the more skilled fighter than Ferguson and always has been. Record doesnt change that.
 
JSN said:
uh wut? He is given more credit than Nate because while Nate was going around being a 0.500 fighter, Tony went undefeated and against very good opposition.
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Last night once again proved that record isnr everything

People acted like Ferguson was one of the best LW'S in the history of the sport and that has never been true. People just gave him more credit for his win streak than his skills actually deserved.
 
MescalineDreams said:
Yeah. That's the logic dumb people use. All due respect.

They look at records. Not skills.

Nate is one of the better boxers in the sport. One of the few mma fighters who has regularly had an elite top 5 p4p boxer as a sparring partner for most of his career.

On top of having every attribute Tony does in terms of heart, spirit, cardio etc.

Nate is also a 2nd degree gracie black belt who's been training with kron gracie( Ricksons son) for the last 6 years.

When it comes to boxing and jiu jitsu. He is better than almost everyone in the division.

Nate also basically started his career in the UFC. A lot of those losses were in the younger portion of his career. During the latter portion, he was always up near the top of the division.

Lawler was in a similar position and he rose up to become champion. Masvidal also had a bunch of losses and came on in the latter portion of his career.

Fighters evolve. Everyone wants to ignore that Nate actually improved a lot and really hit his prime around 30. People still want to define him by those old losses.

It's shitty analysis. Plain and simple.

I believe Nate is the more skilled fighter than Ferguson and always has been. Record doesnt change that.
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You're ass backwards, my dude. There's a reason why the scientific method has advanced technology orders of magnitude more since its inception than the hundreds of thousands of years prior. It works.

You can sit there claiming that Nate has these incredible skills on paper, but the proof is in the pudding- you need to win fights.

Speaking of Masvidal, he recently smashed Nate's face in.
 
JSN said:
You're ass backwards, my dude. There's a reason why the scientific method has advanced technology orders of magnitude more since its inception than the hundreds of thousands of years prior. It works.

You can sit there claiming that Nate has these incredible skills on paper, but the proof is in the pudding- you need to win fights.

Speaking of Masvidal, he recently smashed Nate's face in.
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You really think just looking at records on wikipedia can be equated with the scientific method?

Context is everything
 
JSN said:
You're ass backwards, my dude. There's a reason why the scientific method has advanced technology orders of magnitude more since its inception than the hundreds of thousands of years prior. It works.

You can sit there claiming that Nate has these incredible skills on paper, but the proof is in the pudding- you need to win fights.

Speaking of Masvidal, he recently smashed Nate's face in.
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Another note

Nate did really improve in the latter portion of his career.

He had always been on the cusp of true absolute top of the division but lost to the very best.

Against Michael Johnaon and then Conor is when he truly broke through I feel.

I would put him on the level of his brother, skill wise.

There are not many fighters who can have that level of success against Conor. Which speaks volumes about his skill level and attributes as a fighter.

How well do you think Tony would have done? It would have been a one sided destruction.

Again, record isn't always everything and often makes people lose sight of the bigger picture. As I said, Lawler and masvidal were in a similar position and peaked in the latter portion of their career.

Something else worth considering is USADA. Guys like Nate and Mas were likely some of the more clean fighters in the sport. A bit part of why Nate lost so many fights wasnt necessarily his skill. It's the fact that half the people he fought threw him down like a test dummy.

He also filled out his frame ,got much stronger and started eating differently in the latter portion of his career. By his own testimony, he ate mostly plants to make LW and walked about basically running on empty/ feeling drained.

So, yeah. A lot of variables and niche to consider. You can't just look at records and really know what's happening on a deeper level.

It's why so many thought Tony was this unstoppable juggernaut, BECAUSE they looked at his record.

But ignored what many legit martial arts fans knew from day 1, that he had incredible holes that just hadn't been exposed yet.
 
JSN said:
You're ass backwards, my dude. There's a reason why the scientific method has advanced technology orders of magnitude more since its inception than the hundreds of thousands of years prior. It works.

You can sit there claiming that Nate has these incredible skills on paper, but the proof is in the pudding- you need to win fights.

Speaking of Masvidal, he recently smashed Nate's face in.
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I'm gonna add another really great example from just Last night

Oliveira also spent the majority of his career inside the octagon.

Lots of losses to guys that arent even in the top 10

But, without question, he is among the top 5 best fighters in the division.

At 31 years old.

Fighters evolve.
 
MescalineDreams said:
I'm gonna add another really great example from just Last night

Oliveira also spent the majority of his career inside the octagon.

Lots of losses to guys that arent even in the top 10

But, without question, he is among the top 5 best fighters in the division.

At 31 years old.

Fighters evolve.
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Would you maybe say that his recent record is proof of that? Meanwhile, Nayt has fought twice in the last three years and beaten Pettis and got smashed by Masvidal.
 
JSN said:
Would you maybe say that his recent record is proof of that? Meanwhile, Nayt has fought twice in the last three years and beaten Pettis and got smashed by Masvidal.
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Nah, I think he probably lost a step in his time off. A lot of people agree with this.

Nate is a different case in that I think he really hit his peak around 30. Around the Michael Johnaon, Conor fights.

He earned about 12 million for the second Conor fight according to Forbes.

So Its understandable he lost motivation and felt like he "made it"

I think you can only really just the most recent versions of a fighter when assessing their level of talent and position in the division.

Most of Nate's losses happened when he was very young and nowhere near his peak. Also skinny and eating almost entirely vegan.

At some point he closed the gap on his brother and the difference between the two became a lot more negligible.

It could be argued that Nate is the best incarnation of a Diaz bro ever because he also had Kron as a training partner for the last 6-7 years. Which is huge if you know anything about Kron's philosophy, mental, spiritual and dietary practices. He's the type of guy I would expect to make a big impact on someone career, not just in the sense of giving them of benefit with a truly upper echelon jiu jitsu wizard.

I also am one of the few who believes if the Masvidal fight would have continued on, it would've ended up very close. The Diaz bros are comeback fighters by nature. They take everything you throw at them and then come back stronger and have the cardio to outlast almost anyone on the roster.

The 3rd round in that fight was incredibly close. Nate actually got the better of the standup, landed about 3 solid, clean combinations on him and was mounting a comeback. Masvidal was slowing. Mas barely stole the round by taking him down with 1 minute left in the round.

Trajectory wise, the fight was moving in Nate's favor. I dont believe simply marking that fight as a Nate destruction is objectively and historically honest.

Nate always gets destroyed and he comes back. He got destroyed in both Conor fights and won the first by sub and lost the second by narrow decision.
 
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