UFC 217 - Bisping vs GSP - NYC

[Orion]

If GSP looked crisp and like he didn't lose a step in training would you ignore that.

How is how a fighter looks in training not a MAJOR part of looking into a fight?

The blips of training footage we're given is worse than judging a fighter off a highlight video on youtube. You're going off pad work in UFC promos dude...lol. There's a long list of fighters that have looked great/bad on pads and performed the opposite in the cage. If you want to mention that as a potentially interesting tidbit, fine...but it's not worth pages and pages of discussion due to the lack of reliability.

 

[raketmannen]

Re. Bisping x GSP, Bet365 has:
- Fight goes to distance: -150
- Either fighter by decision/draw: -140

What is the difference? Why would anyone bet the -150 option?

I guess people bet fight goes the distance at -140 or lower making it rise to -150

 

[Zee's MMA Subscriber]

LOL Randy Brown +100

 

[MMA Goodfella]

Speaking of delusional, here's Vick:



He says "how many more Joe Duffy's do I have to beat?" He actually thinks Duffy is on par with the bums he's been fighting. Says he's better everywhere and he'd beat him in a boxing match. He's pissed at everything just because the UFC haven't pushed him for beating post-USADA Trujillo and Polo Reyes.

He's definitely overlooking Duffy. He's in for a rude awakening, and I can confirm that Duffy is indeed a cosmic value bet.

I just finished watching tape on James Vick and Joe Duffy and I think that the Irishman absolutely beats the piss out of James Vick. They are similarly sized but Joe’s boxing fundamentals are much crisper and he’s more athletic with speed and power to boot. Duffy has a ramrod jab from the outside and sneaky combinations for find their target a higher clip. The main x-factor however between the two is their defense. James leaving his chin up in the air like a flag flapping in the wind on a flagpole makes it a magnet for a Duffy shot off of a nice combo.

The other aspect with Joe is that he is extremely versatile in his striking. Specifically he has excellent boxing infused with a nuanced kicking game and you will rarely see him throw single shots. Almost every time Joe lets loose with strikes he does so in combinations. His finishing sequences are often accomplished because of this. Meaning that it’s not the first or second strike that closes the show but the third or fourth. Combine this striking with the fact that James is defensively irresponsible with a head kept high and thus you get a jaw that is ripe to get cracked.

Ultimately, I can understand the hesitancy for anyone not wanting to lay a lot of juice on Duffy, but -180 to me is a very fair price. I just think Joe has way too many tools for Vick to deal with. Add in JV’s terrible defensive flaws and you have a bad night from Vick.

 

[SBJJ]

The blips of training footage we're given is worse than judging a fighter off a highlight video on youtube. You're going off pad work in UFC promos dude...lol. There's a long list of fighters that have looked great/bad on pads and performed the opposite in the cage. If you want to mention that as a potentially interesting tidbit, fine...but it's not worth pages and pages of discussion due to the lack of reliability.

There is more than just blips out there. And you think the UFC promos would use the WORST footage they could find? There is also people close to GSP coming out saying this is not good.

I mean, what else u gonna go by in this fight. It's like you think it's all a conspiracy

 

[Barkus]

We didn't even see 90% of prime GSP performance in his last few fights. 4 years ago. Pre USADA. In a different era of the sport.

Jessamyn Duke vs Peggy Morgan was on the main card of a UFC event since GSP last fought.

This was the era when Rogan would contantly say wrestling is the best base for mma because you can choose where the fight takes place. When was the last time he said that? It's been years because it doesn't work that way anymore. The wrestler doesn't choose to get the takedown now, he has to work for it and often fails and gasses out if he commits too hard. The sport has evolved but the odds are seem to be skewed because of GSP's dominance of a bygone era.

 

[Orion]

There is more than just blips out there. And you think the UFC promos would use the WORST footage they could find? There is also people close to GSP coming out saying this is not good.

I mean, what else u gonna go by in this fight. It's like you think it's all a conspiracy

No, that's exactly my point -- there isn't much to go off here, so it's more of a dart throw bet.

 

[SBJJ]

I personally think most of the Bisping backers have made a better case for a fighter then I've seen in a long time. To act like they are grasping at straws is ridiculous.

 

[SBJJ]

No, that's exactly my point -- there isn't much to go off here, so it's more of a dart throw bet.

There is plenty. There is more footage out there of him dude.

4 years off

Bad style matchup

People close to him thinking he doesn't look good.

Didn't look good before retiring

Tape doesn't look good

New heavier weight class

 

[SBJJ]

This was the era when Rogan would contantly say wrestling is the best base for mma because you can choose where the fight takes place. When was the last time he said that? It's been years because it doesn't work that way anymore. The wrestler doesn't choose to get the takedown now, he has to work for it and often fails and gasses out if he commits too hard. The sport has evolved but the odds are seem to be skewed because of GSP's dominance of a bygone era.

Honestly when you are dealing with elite fighters there are very few that can just be dominated or laid on by a wrestler

 

[Barkus]

There is plenty. There is more footage out there of him dude.

4 years off

Bad style matchup

People close to him thinking he doesn't look good.

Didn't look good before retiring

Tape doesn't look good

New heavier weight class

A probable user fighting in his first USADA fight.

His best skillset is much less effective in the direction the sport has taken.

The fight requires a lot more outside the box analysis and less technical analysis but that doesn't mean value isn't there.

 

[Stunna77]

Honestly when you are dealing with elite fighters there are very few that can just be dominated or laid on by a wrestler

Tbf GSP had adequate striking to set-up his wrestling and dominated plenty of elite fighters. I understand that was obviously in his prime and pre-layoff, etc. Wouldn't be shocked to see Bisping stuff enough takedowns and win the striking, possibly even hurting GSP at points in the fight. BUT, I also wouldn't be shocked if GSP consistently gets Bisping to the mat and wins a dec. Only have a bet on the Over at -140, may hit GSP dec small for action pre-fight.

 

[DarkneT]

I just finished watching tape on James Vick and Joe Duffy and I think that the Irishman absolutely beats the piss out of James Vick. They are similarly sized but Joe’s boxing fundamentals are much crisper and he’s more athletic with speed and power to boot. Duffy has a ramrod jab from the outside and sneaky combinations for find their target a higher clip. The main x-factor however between the two is their defense. James leaving his chin up in the air like a flag flapping in the wind on a flagpole makes it a magnet for a Duffy shot off of a nice combo.

The other aspect with Joe is that he is extremely versatile in his striking. Specifically he has excellent boxing infused with a nuanced kicking game and you will rarely see him throw single shots. Almost every time Joe lets loose with strikes he does so in combinations. His finishing sequences are often accomplished because of this. Meaning that it’s not the first or second strike that closes the show but the third or fourth. Combine versus tie striking with the fact that James is defensively irresponsible with a head kept high and thus you get a jaw that is ripe to get cracked.

Ultimately, I can understand the hesitancy for anyone not wanting to lay a lot of juice on Duffy, but -180 to me is a very fair price. I just think Joe has way too many tools for Vick to deal with. Add in JV’s terrible defensive flaws and you have a bad night from Vick.

This all day, I see literally no reason why Duffy can't do what Beni did, which felt like two minutes ago

 

[SBJJ]

Tbf GSP had adequate striking to set-up his wrestling and dominated plenty of elite fighters. I understand that was obviously in his prime and pre-layoff, etc. Wouldn't be shocked to see Bisping stuff enough takedowns and win the striking, possibly even hurting GSP at points in the fight. BUT, I also wouldn't be shocked if GSP consistently gets Bisping to the mat and wins a dec. Only have a bet on the Over at -140, may hit GSP dec small for action pre-fight.

I'm talking in general in current MMA. Top guys have evolved to a point where it's so hard to just take them down and control them the entire fight. Most elite fighters have worked there TDD to a point it makes it harder than it was 4 or 5 years ago. Also USADA has probably contributed to it.

Guys that used to smash people on the ground now seem to be having a much harder time.

Look, I'm not saying Bisoing is a lock. A hate the word lock.

I don't like that Bisping has been out a year. I don't like that Bisping seems to think this will be easy

 

[betrayedlurker]

I just finished watching tape on James Vick and Joe Duffy and I think that the Irishman absolutely beats the piss out of James Vick. They are similarly sized but Joe’s boxing fundamentals are much crisper and he’s more athletic with speed and power to boot. Duffy has a ramrod jab from the outside and sneaky combinations for find their target a higher clip. The main x-factor however between the two is their defense. James leaving his chin up in the air like a flag flapping in the wind on a flagpole makes it a magnet for a Duffy shot off of a nice combo.

The other aspect with Joe is that he is extremely versatile in his striking. Specifically he has excellent boxing infused with a nuanced kicking game and you will rarely see him throw single shots. Almost every time Joe lets loose with strikes he does so in combinations. His finishing sequences are often accomplished because of this. Meaning that it’s not the first or second strike that closes the show but the third or fourth. Combine versus tie striking with the fact that James is defensively irresponsible with a head kept high and thus you get a jaw that is ripe to get cracked.

Ultimately, I can understand the hesitancy for anyone not wanting to lay a lot of juice on Duffy, but -180 to me is a very fair price. I just think Joe has way too many tools for Vick to deal with. Add in JV’s terrible defensive flaws and you have a bad night from Vick.

Best post I've ever seen from you. Keep it up.

 

[betrayedlurker]

This was the era when Rogan would contantly say wrestling is the best base for mma because you can choose where the fight takes place. When was the last time he said that? It's been years because it doesn't work that way anymore. The wrestler doesn't choose to get the takedown now, he has to work for it and often fails and gasses out if he commits too hard. The sport has evolved but the odds are seem to be skewed because of GSP's dominance of a bygone era.

Awesome post.

 

[SBJJ]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/gambler-allegedly-wins-14-million-153045243.html

Holy Shit!

Is this you lifeisgood?

 

[betrayedlurker]

OMG the retarded naked flying knees from Vick in the Trujillo fight, left himself way open... This dude is getting KTFO.

 

[Sadistics]

OMG the retarded naked flying knees from Vick in the Trujillo fight, left himself way open... This dude is getting KTFO.

Haha, throws them in every fight. Dariush grazed him with a counter on it. To his credit he did land one on Trujillo leading to the finishing sequence

 

[betrayedlurker]

Haha, throws them in every fight. Dariush grazed him with a counter on it. To his credit he did land one on Trujillo leading to the finishing sequence

They're so bad. Pre USADA non-vegan Trujillo would have knocked his head into the rafters.

The Dariush performance was really, really bad...