U.S. Navy ship fired warning shots at Iranian vessels near the Strait of Hormuz

[UpaLoompa]

Just bullshit. We could walk away from the deal if we wanted. You might consider it asinine to do, but the notion that we cannot walk away from this deal despite Iran acting like petulant retards while in negotiation is a load of bull. That's quite different than believing the deal is better than sanctions.

You're ignoring the fact that the sanctions weren't strictly those imposed by the US. Walking away from the nuclear deal would result in both the loosening of sanctions and none of the nuclear controls.

So no, we couldn't just walk away. The sanctions were collapsing with or without the deal.

 

[Rod1]

Just going to shoot from the hip with my responses since it's well past bedtime.

I feel like we're parsing the differences we share viewing Hezbollah and Al Qaeda, and straying from the point. AQ also had purposes with their bombings and terrorist acts, it wasn't always punishment. But really, I feel like we're just repeating ourselves here even though we don't really disagree.

I think it's extremely short sighted to view terrorist attacks as being justified because a non-actor was in a general vicinity. We are going to have to disagree here. I can't even get over your premise.

I could go on and on about ISIS, but the one thing that would strengthen them like no other is to face a shitty Sunni force and absolutely decimate those forces, which is well within the realm of possibility if you've ever heard stories about the Saudi armed forces. I can't agree with arming the Kurds and then having them turn around and use them against everyone else in the region (and maybe us) in a fight for independence, but this might happen anyway. I like the Kurds but I'm not going to ignore how much they could destabilize the region again, right after ISIS is defeated. It's a very shitty situation and there are zero good options left.

Did you forget how North Korea became a nuclear nation even with all the spy satellites and intelligence we had directed at them? That one flew under the radar. Much like Iran, some people were in denial that the Best Koreans were actually actively engaged in making nuclear warheads up until the ground shook from a nuclear explosion. So I don't agree at all with the premise that it's impossible. The question is, is this nuclear deal going to stop decades of attempts, or will Iran make the deal and keep attempting to get the bomb? I hope it's the former. Only time will tell, our speculation is worthless (though I am always skeptical when it comes to the leadership in Iran, dealing with a nutbag Shia leader).

The Persian people are mostly awesome and if they could lift the veil of their overbearing religious dictator, Iran could flourish. I just can't tell you what actions we could take to help facilitate such a thing happening, or working with the Iranian government and thus legitimizing its control.

1.- Im not justifying Hezbollah actions, im merely stating why they are less of a threat than Alqaeda. Rabid dog on a leash > rabid dog with no leash.

That being said i dont justify terrorist acts carried by the west or its allies either.

2.- North Korea got its nukes by literally sacrificing everything else, Iran could do the same indeed and the only thing that could stop them is war, but they wont.

Thats why the deal is so important, it gives the west control over the nuclear capabilities of Iran and it gives tools to punish them in case they dont comply.

 

[Rod1]

4 Democrat Senators and 19 Democrat Congressman voted against it. Iran gets the right to delay any inspection for 24 days.

The United States lifts sanctions and concedes to Iran the right to have its own nuclear reactors but not the ability to develop the capacity to enrich nuclear fuel, which doubles as an important element of nuclear weapons production. Then, the United States conceded to Iran that the strict limitations on enrichment would expire. Iran gets to delay any inspections of a suspect facility for 24 days.

Tell me that you don't think there is a risk of Iran going nuclear?

It also gives the US the capability to unilateraly impose sanctions back on. All of those rights given back to Iran also depend on their full compliance with the terms of the deal.

The deal certainly puts more locks on developing a nuke than what you would have with no deal.

Otherwise the only way to stop a nuclear Iran would be war, North Korea got their nukes despite the country living in African famine levels of poverty after all.

 

[djacobox372]

Nobody on Sherdog knows what the president's response to the video is. Tense international relations aren't something that is made for public consumption.

Just because a president doesn't immediately go on fox news and grandstand and saber rattle for political points doesn't mean shit isn't happening.

Besides as I pointed out before, these videos were made and released by factions within Iran in order to anger the US and prevent the treaty--we shouldn't be so keen to react how our enemies want us to. When someone can "get to you" and cause you to behave like they want, that's called being their bitch. Bin Laden made us his bitch by causing us to invade Iraq which led to the Islamic State--EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTED!

 

[Arkain2K]

Tense international relations aren't something that is made for public consumption.

Apparently this video is, though

Besides as I pointed out before, these videos were made and released by factions within Iran in order to anger the US and prevent the treaty--

Feel free to post up the outraged public response from the "friendly" Iranian faction condemning it, if there's such a thing.

 

[djacobox372]

Apparently this video is, though
Feel free to post up the outraged public response from the "friendly" Iranian faction condemning it, if there's such a thing.

Nobody described Iran as "friendly, but the fact is that those in Iran that want to cooperate with the west and the treaty (in return for lifted sanctions) are NOT the ones releasing the video.

If you react to such a video by going back on the treaty than you are cooperating with the intentions of those who made the video.

That's the problem with the anger of those on the right, it makes you very vulnerable to manipulation.

 

[Rod1]

Apparently this video is, though

Feel free to post up the outraged public response from the "friendly" Iranian faction condemning it, if there's such a thing.

Its giving them too much leeway, its a provokation for both sides.

As for Rouhani being a reformist.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Ir...med-at-US-policies-not-American-people-416603

Its like big countries with diverse populations also had a diverse set of ideas and pluralistic politics.

 

[Arkain2K]

Navy relieved commander of U.S. sailors detained in Iran waters
May 12, 2016

WASHINGTON D.C. -- The Navy has fired the commander of the 10 American sailors who wandered into Iranian territorial waters in the Persian Gulf and were captured and held by Iran for about 15 hours.

In a statement Thursday, the Navy said it had lost confidence in Cmdr. Eric Rasch, who was the executive officer of the squadron that included the 10 sailors at the time of the January incident. He was responsible for the training and readiness of the more than 400 sailors in the unit.

A Navy official said Rasch failed to provide effective leadership, leading to a lack of oversight, complacency and failure to maintain standards in the unit. The official was not authorized to discuss the details publicly so spoke on condition of anonymity.

Rasch has been relieved of his command duties and reassigned, the Navy said.

Although this is the first firing by the Navy regarding the incident, several other sailors received administrative reprimands. The investigation is expected to be finished by the end of the month, and others are likely to be disciplined.

Rasch was promoted to commander of the unit in April -- after the Iran incident occurred, but before the preliminary investigation was done.

This photo released by the Iranian state-run IRIB News Agency on Jan. 13, 2016, shows the detention of American Navy sailors by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards in the Persian Gulf.​

The sailors, nine men and one woman, were detained after their boat drifted into Iranian waters off Farsi Island, an outpost in the middle of the Persian Gulf that has been used as a base for Revolutionary Guard speedboats since the 1980s.

The sailors were on two small armed vessels, known as riverine command boats, on a 300-mile journey from Kuwait to Bahrain, where the Navy's 5th Fleet is located. The incident, while brief, raised tensions between the U.S. and Iran because of images Iran published of the soldiers kneeling with their hands on their heads. It caused political uproar at home, too, coming on the day of President Barack Obama's final State of the Union address and months after the signing of a deal with Iran to curb its nuclear program in exchange for relief from financial penalties.

Navy Capt. Gary Leigh, commander of Riverine Group 1, decided to fire Rasch after Leigh reviewed the initial investigation. A Navy official said no action has been taken, at least so far, against Cmdr. Greg Meyer, who was serving as commander of the squadron when the incident happened. He is no longer in a command job.

Defense Secretary Ash Carter said the sailors made a navigational error and went off course.

An initial account said the "planned transit path for the mission was down the middle of the Gulf and not through the territorial waters of any country other than Kuwait and Bahrain."

That account said the crew stopped when a diesel engine in one of the boats appeared to have a mechanical issue. The second boat also stopped.

At this point they were in Iranian territorial waters, "although it's not clear the crew was aware of their exact location," the report said.

A US Navy riverine patrol boat similar to the two seized by Iran​

While the boats were stopped and the crew was trying to assess the mechanical problem, two small Iranian craft carrying armed personnel approached. Soon after, they were joined by two more Iranian military vessels. A verbal exchange ensued between the Iranians and Americans, but there was no gunfire.

The sailors had been scheduled to meet up with a U.S. Coast Guard ship, the Monomoy, in international waters to refuel. But about 10 minutes before the refueling was supposed to take place, the Navy headquarters in Bahrain got a report that Iranians were questioning the crew members.

Soon afterward, the Navy lost communications with the boats.

An undated picture released by Iran's Revolutionary Guards website shows one of the U.S. boats detained by Iran, in an undisclosed location.​

The Navy launched a large-scale search-and-rescue mission, but it is not clear whether the Americans had already been taken ashore on Farsi Island. The Iranians eventually told the U.S. that the 10 sailors were safe and healthy.

Secretary of State John Kerry, in a series of phone calls, used the personal relationship he has formed with Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif to work out the crews' release. Kerry credited the quick resolution to the "critical role diplomacy plays in keeping our country secure and strong."

"After determining that their entry into Iran's territorial waters was not intentional and their apology, the detained American sailors were released in international waters," a statement posted online by Iran's Revolutionary Guard said in January.

Vice President Joe Biden, speaking to "CBS This Morning," in January denied that Americans made any apology.

"There's nothing to apologize for," Biden said. "When you have a problem with the boat you apologize the boat had a problem? No, and there was no looking for any apology. This was just standard nautical practice."

While there was no official apology issued, Iran state television showed footage showing one U.S. sailor apologizing, calling the incident a "mistake."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/navy-fires-commander-of-us-sailors-who-were-captured-in-iran/

 

[Thunderflash500]

So why was the sailor crying?

 

[oldshadow]

He was in charge and unlike some politicians is held accountable as it should be.

 

[Arkain2K]

Why Iran is 'playing with fire' in the Persian Gulf against US Navy ships

​

For the fifth time in about a month, Iranian fast-attack craft have harassed US Navy ships with "unsafe and unprofessional" maneuvers at sea in the gulf between Saudi Arabia and Iran

While experts acknowledge that Iran is "playing with fire" against the best navy in the world, don't expect these incidents to stop anytime soon.

"The number of unsafe, unprofessional interactions for first half of the year is nearly twice as much as same period in 2015, trend has continued. There's already more in 2016 than all of 2015," Commander Bill Urban of the Navy's 5th Fleet told Business Insider in a phone interview.

Urban stressed that despite the Iranian navy fast-attack craft being several orders of magnitude less potent than US Navy ships, the threat they pose in the gulf is very real.

"Any time another vessel is charging in on one of your ships and they’re not talking on the radio ... you don’t know what their intentions are," said Urban.

Urban confirmed that Iran sends small, fast attack ships to "swarm" and "harass" larger US Naval vessels that could quite easily put them at the bottom of the ocean, but the ships pose a threat beyond firepower.

According to Urban, these ships are "certainly armed vessels with crew-manned weapons, not unarmed ships. I wouldn't discount the ability to be a danger. A collision at sea even with a much larger ship is always something that could cause damage to a ship or injure personnel."

In the most recent episode at sea, Urban said that an Iranian craft swerved in front of the USS Firebolt, a US Coastal Patrol craft, and stopped dead in its path, causing the Firebolt to have to adjust course or risk collision.

"This kind of provocative, harassing technique risks escalation and miscalculation," Urban added.

The messages Iran wants to send

"In my view, [Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic] Khamenei decided it's time to send a message: I’m here and I’m unhappy," Cliff Kupchan, chairman of Eurasia Group and an expert on Iran, told Business Insider in a phone interview.

According to Kupchan, the Iranian navy carries out these stunts under directions straight from the top because of frustrations with the Iran nuclear deal. Despite billions of dollars in sanction relief flowing into Iran following the deal, Kupchan says Iran sees the US as "preventing European and Asian banks from moving into Iran and financing Iranian businesses," and therefore not holding up their end of the Iran nuclear deal.

But despite their perception that the US has under delivered on the promises of the Iran nuclear deal, Kupchan says Iran will absolutely not walk away from the deal, which has greatly improved their international standing and financial prospects.

The lifting of sanctions on Iran's oil has resulted in "billions in additional revenue ... they're not gonna walk away from that."

So Iran seems to be simply spinning its wheels to score political points with hardliners, but what if the worst happens and there's a miscalculation in a conflict between Iranian and US naval vessels resulting in the loss of life?

The coastal patrol ship USS Squall, one of the ships harassed by the Iranians. ​

"The concern is miscalculation," Kupchan said. "Some guy misjudges the speed of his boat, people could die. There is a lot on the line." According to Kupchan and other experts, Iran's navy doesn't stand a serious chance against modern US Navy ships.

"Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and the Iranian Navy are not very capable or modern," Kupchan said.

The fast-attack craft we've seen challenge US Navy boats have simply been older speedboats, some Russian-made, outfitted with guns.

The Iranian craft can certainly bother US Navy ships by risking collisions and functioning as "heavily armed gnats, or mosquitoes" that swarm US ships, but a recent test carried out by the Navy confirms that the gunships wouldn't have much trouble knocking them out of the water. The ensuing international incident, however, would dominate headlines for weeks.

A military truck carrying a missile and a picture of Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei during a parade marking the anniversary of the Iran-Iraq war (1980-88), in Tehran. ​

"The wood is dry in US and Iranian relations," said Kupchan, suggesting that a small miscalculation could spark a major fire, and that harassing these ships is "one of the ways the Iranian political system lets off steam."

"Hardliners on both sides would go nuts," said Kupchan, referencing both the conservative Islamist Iranians and the conservative US hawks who would not pass up any opportunity to impinge Obama over his perceived weakness against the Iranians.

Yet Kupchan contends that even a lethal incident would not end the deal. Both sides simply have too much riding on the deal's success: Obama with his foreign-policy legacy and Iran with its financial redemption and status in the region as the main adversary to Western powers.

Iranian military personnel watch over the Strait of Hormuz, which they have threatened, though not credibly, to close off to US forces. ​

But Iran's Khamenei may be sending a second message to incoming US leadership, specifically Hillary Clinton, who seems likely to be the next commander-in-chief.

"They know Clinton is tough," said Kupchan, and Khamenei may be addressing Clinton with a second message, saying, "Madame Secretary, I’m still here. I know you’re tough, but I'm ready."

For now, Kupchan expects these incidents at sea to carry on as Iran vents about its larger frustrations and that a violent exchange would "not be the end of the deal" or the start of a larger war "but a serious international incident."

http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-playing-with-fire-in-persian-gulf-2016-9

 

[xcvbn]

Honestly wtf are we doing with ships 10,000 miles away ferrying Saudi oil through the Strait of Homuz? Guaranteed you put Saudi's in those ships and they run away or somehow manage to sink themselves. Just a waste of resources, money, and unnecessarily putting American troops at risk near shithole, backwards ass countries.

 

[Prefect]

Why are we there? Seriously.

 

[Arkain2K]

U.S. Navy ship fired warning shots at Iranian vessels
By Idrees Ali
January 9, 2017

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. Navy destroyer fired three warning shots at four Iranian fast-attack vessels near the Strait of Hormuz after they closed in at high speed and disregarded repeated requests to slow down, U.S. officials said on Monday.

The incident, which occurred on Sunday and was first reported by Reuters, comes as U.S. President-elect Donald Trump prepares to take office on Jan. 20. In September, Trump vowed that any Iranian vessels that harassed the U.S. Navy in the Gulf would be "shot out of the water."

"This was an unsafe and unprofessional interaction, and that is due to the fact that they were approaching at a high level of speed with weapons manned and disregarding repeated warnings," Captain Jeff Davis, a Pentagon spokesman, said in a briefing.

The warning shots were fired at the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps boats by the USS Mahan after it established radio contact but failed to get them to slow down, Davis said, confirming earlier accounts of U.S. defense officials.

Those officials, speaking to Reuters on condition of anonymity, said the Iranian vessels came within 900 yards (800 meters) of the Navy destroyer, which was escorting two other U.S. military ships.

The Mahan also fired flares and a U.S. Navy helicopter also dropped a smoke float before the warning shots, they said.

The IRGC and Trump transition team were not immediately available for comment.

The White House said the Iranian vessels had behaved in an unacceptable manner and that such incidents risked increasing tensions.

"At this point the United States does not know what the intentions of the Iranian vessels were, but the behavior is not acceptable given that the USS Mahan was operating in international waters," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said during a press conference on Monday.

Years of mutual animosity eased when Washington lifted sanctions on Tehran last year after a deal to curb Iran's nuclear ambitions. But serious differences still remain over Iran's ballistic missile program as well as conflicts in Syria and Iraq.

One of the U.S. defense officials said similar incidents occur occasionally.

Most recently in August, another U.S. Navy ship fired warning shots toward an Iranian fast-attack craft that approached two U.S. ships.

In January 2016, Iran freed 10 U.S. sailors after briefly detaining them in the Gulf.

The one official added that the warning shots fired on Sunday were just one of seven interactions the Mahan had with Iranian vessels over the weekend, but the others were judged to be safe.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-navy-destroyer-fires-warning-shots-iranian-vessels-122748841.html

 

[oldshadow]

Its about time to start taking out the screws and rudders on thoses shit heads.

If they want to step it up after that put them on the bottom.

 

[2DUM2TAP]

 

[SlicerDM]

Know what's embarrassing and shameful.


When your soldiers cry because you refuse to help them with your psychological problems because you subjected them to the horrible aspects of War.

That's shameful, not the crying. That's War and the Military Life.

 

[SlicerDM]

Did McCain happen to offer a suggestion on what the appropriate response should be? Go to war? I don't see a lot of options here to get back at a country for releasing a video that embarrasses some of our guys. This is just cheap political theater by McCain.

Truly, if McCain really gave a fuck he would try to help the Soldiers who are crying, because they are obviously under psychological stress.

The guy is a bafoon.

 

[Dan O]

Not surprising an arleigh Burke opted to open fire. Destroyers are not to be fucked with.