Turtling Good/Bad Idea?

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lightw8

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I have very stiff hips, and when put on my back Im horrible-agilitywise especially since i put on some weight. I just absolutely am so slow moving around when Im on my back. I have some limitations- I dont allow myself to get stacked cause ive had lower back issues. The best thing I do now when i get put on my back is turtle up or stand up cause Im pretty strong for my weight- 5'8 200lbs. My guard replacement is horrible- and something I will obviously work on. My question for you guys with slow/stiff hips/hip movement, do you guys just resort to turtling/standing or is this just a bad mentality to have and I should avoid turtling and force a bottom game to come out sometime. When Im on bottom, I'm at home with halfguard and sometimes Z. When I was lighter I had a bit more mobile hips and way better cardio (of course), and one day I may be back at 180lbs, but for now, its not gonna happen anytime soon, so I have to adapt.
 
a turtle is pretty easy to break open and attack, but better than just giving your back to the guy. I would work on escapes from turtle into better position.
 
Work on you're bottom game, but there's nothing wrong with rolling over to turtle, and taking a single leg ever
 
I think developing turtle purposefully is a good idea however having to because you are avoiding your bad hip movement is bad.
 
Don't practice bad habits. Turtling works in Judo comps and that's it.

I've spent a lot of time "undoing" certain habits and it sucks.

Even a mildly decent grappler will break down your turtle in a few seconds.
 
Turtling is always a bad idea when out in public. Especially if you don't have an extra pair of underpants. Wait... what are we talking about again?
 
If you happen to be caught in a bad spot then it is great. As far as making a routine out of it, not so good.
 
I use in in BJJ - only as a transition though, and it is risky against those who are good at taking the back immediately.

No one breaks my turtle "easily", but then I am not static but actively looking to lock down an arm, grab a leg or sit through. If you do a "lay and pray" then it's even worse.
 
some people slam the turtle too hard, others praise it too much.
it's a usable position, but you sound like you're trying to avoid developing basics.
turtle can be really useful as u progress, but for now stick to shrimping.
 
I don't like the term, because I think it gives the wrong idea. Turtling implies balling up tight to protect yourself, which is not what I think you should be trying to do here.

It is a vulnerable position, but one that you have to be active in, playing it like a Judo fighter is suicide in most cases as you can't tuck in and wait for the ref to save you. Instead you need to get out fast and fight hard to do so. More like a wrestler, but adapting to protect against submissions.

It is certainly not a place to go if you are not very mobile, you should be able to sit out, hip heist, shoulder roll, granby roll and other movements that require some agility and explosiveness in order to really use the position effectively IMO.
 
bora y said:
some people slam the turtle too hard, others praise it too much.
it's a usable position, but you sound like you're trying to avoid developing basics.
turtle can be really useful as u progress, but for now stick to shrimping.
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yeah I agree. turtling is fine once in a while but you're gonna have to pick a guard and develop it. my wrestling instincts have me pulling it on the better players because they pass my guard, but it's a last resort. I'd rather sweep using a traditional guard.
 
fourfif said:
yeah I agree. turtling is fine once in a while but you're gonna have to pick a guard and develop it. my wrestling instincts have me pulling it on the better players because they pass my guard, but it's a last resort. I'd rather sweep using a traditional guard.
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thanks for all the replies guys, seriously. I love working half guard, and when on my back, thats my best option. I guess its in the scrambles, and when Im coming up off my back, I feel like its taking more effort than it should to not stay flat on my back, and to move my hips effectively. Maybe I should start every roll with the guy in my closed/open guard for awhile. For the record, when I get to turtle, I dont stay there. Also outside of shrimping drills, are there anything else to become more nimble off my back?
 
there is a reason why even telles stopped turtling like he used to
 
The only time I ever turtle is if I can't escape from under mount/side control from traditional techniques or when my guard is about to be passed. When I do turtle, I never ever ever hang out there. Its turtle than roll immediately to regain guard or get to my feet.
 
he is playing alot more half guard now. I guess he sorta found his glass ceiling with the turtle.
 
lightw8 said:
you mind enlightening me about it?
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In case you didn't know who Telles is, he has dvd series where he covers turtle guard probably more than anyone ever has. I believe he is considered some what the authority on the turtle position.
 
platfox said:
In case you didn't know who Telles is, he has dvd series where he covers turtle guard probably more than anyone ever has. I believe he is considered some what the authority on the turtle position.
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thanks, yea I didnt know he was going another way now. I forgot all about rolling over the shoulder into guard again, thanks. I may try to add that as well as working on my hip escape drills more.
 
Personally, if I ever turtle I always roll to my back and try to close guard, if I can't close guard I go to half guard, if I can't go to half guard I go to open guard, if I can't do any of that then I'm screwed, just like anyone who stays in turtle.
 
I didn't know he was going another way either, in fact I don't know much about him at all. I have borrowed his turtle and octopus series but never really watched it. I think I just breezed through it once.
 
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