Turtle position?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Poseidon, Sep 15, 2005.

  1. Poseidon

    Poseidon Black Belt

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    SCENARIO

    Whilst rolling with my instructor, more often than not, he always ends up in the turtle position. I will then take the back and try and get the hooks in which seems to make it more easy for him in reversing it i.e grabbing an arm or just stalling up.

    QUESTION

    When someone adopts the turtle postion, what can be done?, this really frustrates me and I just feel like kneeing them in the ribs so they can't get away with it, but in pure grappling???

    Ideas?????

    Cheers
     
  2. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Turtle position is a position just like the guard and the mounts. Their are attacks, counters, defenses and reversals to the position.

    Their is no straight solution. BJJ.org is a good place to look for techniques for and against the turtle position.
     
  3. If he has just attained the turtle position and hasn't yet put his knees and elbows inside you should immediately go for the clock choke. This is one of those submissions that generally works best during the transitions between positions, so when you are about to pass his guard and he turns turtle, go for it. It tends to be a surprise attack. I take it you train with a gi right?

    A lot of taking the back from the turtle methods are hard to explain in words but I'm sure you can find the two basic methods somewhere. If he already has his knees and elbows in it's best to use the standing method of pulling up on his gi belt from behind, get one hook in, and then turn the other way to get the other hook in as you pull him backwards. It would just be confusing in words.

    Another idea is that you could ask your instructor.
     
  4. Poseidon

    Poseidon Black Belt

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    Thanks

    No, we don't use Gi. Now that you mention that, it actually annoys me as when were rolling, he wears a shell suit type top which doesn't make it easy.

    I'll do a search on BJJ.org.
     
  5. wildcard_seven

    wildcard_seven Purple Belt

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    A shell suit?
     
  6. Enron Exec.

    Enron Exec. Guest

    put one knee in his ribs and the other leg behind his ass. Put your outside arm on his hip Work there. with your arm closes to his head grab behind his outside elbow and pull it towards you
     
  7. 2om30

    2om30 Red Belt

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    i'll try for a clock choke but you gotta be fast to get that lapel.
     
  8. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    Look for the harness or crucifix then work from those positons.
     
  9. if the turtle is what i think it sounds like, just use a basic wrestling breaktown from top position.

    ankle pick and drive him flat and i feel that opens options for you and takes them away from him. anticipate him trying to transition into another prosition instead of letting you keep him flat so just react and go from there. but try to keep the ankle when you break him flat--ankle lock or some leg lock you can apply from there. (dunno if bjj does these kind of subs)

    if ankle pick didnt work you could snatch his hips and dive with a should in his near-side hip and you've got him broken down but you need to be quick to not let him grab anything--but he's not in turtle anymore and you have his leg or arm if you take it. he'll be on his side.

    can you chop an arm while staying behind his hips? lean your weight on him, onto an arm and shop that elbow the way the joint wants to go and you have an arm and can take him flat. you keep the arm and use it.
     
  10. Poseidon

    Poseidon Black Belt

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    Cheers guys, I always get some useful tips coming on the grappling forum. I now could use some of your skills LOL
     
  11. Enron Exec.

    Enron Exec. Guest

    I forget who the guy is but theres a great Instructional for turtle. I think its Marcelo Garcia. Turtle is a very underated position. Its part of my game for sure
     
  12. John O'Brien

    John O'Brien They call me Barnacle Bill.

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    I don't like to turtle in the gi, but no-gi - It's all fair in love and war.
     
  13. judogido

    judogido Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! ...

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    You rolling with a teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle?
     
  14. If your opponent turtles up on you. There are two good things to do if you are not using a gi. The first thing I would try to do would be to underhook under both of your opponents arms and then do a backflip while having your underhooks and use your weight to throw them over with you and then attack the hooks in. That is probably the best option. A good example of this is what Leo did in abu dhabi 2003. Ill try to get a detailed breakdown on lockflow.com sometime this week. Another good option is a Phantom Front Choke as shown here. http://lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=426 But i personally would rather go with a backflip/reversal over the choke option because unless your opponent is superiorly heavy. You will almost always get it.
     
  15. bammann45

    bammann45 Yellow Belt

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    I have just a little general advice: you can't both base out in the turtle to prevent being pushed over
    and protect against getting hooks in at the same time -- its one or the other. So, when you try to get a hook in then, they will ball up to close the gaps, immediatlely then try to push em over in the usual ways, then they base out again, then try the hooks... throw in some attempted chokes to keep em guessing...repeat as necessary... then learn more advanced stuff like setups for crucifixes and various armbars.

    That being said there are some great reversals and takedowns from the turtle...
     
  16. Happy Camper

    Happy Camper Orange Belt

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    Getting over/under-controll is a good one. Garcia often goes for that.
     
  17. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

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    I hate this with my instructor, I try so hard to attack him yet his defense & counters are too good.
     
  18. sakufan

    sakufan Purple Belt

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    Marcelo Garcia doesn't specialize in the turtle position. Eduardo Telles does.
     
  19. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    there are so many variations to taking the back from here, id learn all the little tricks and stick with that. its all about creating little openings to get your hooks in.
     
  20. Bubble Boy

    Bubble Boy Black Belt

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    If your instructor is turtling on you it means you're probably doing something right. Just a thought.

    Get a hook into the nearest leg first if you can. Over under with your arms. Watch that he doesn't just "sweep" or roll you over into a pin.

    Another thing to try is called a sankakyu rollover (Judo). It's way difficult to explain, but I'm sure if you search it on the internet you'll find something. It may also be spelled sangakyu or sangaku depending on the site.
     

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