Turkey- Leading AKP politician and Parlimentary Speaker wants Islamist constitution

[MicroBrew]

Remember folks Turkey was held up as an example of a country that can be Muslim and secular . Erdogan's AKP has been moving Turkey towards Islamist chauvinism.

The EU considered Turkey for membership because it has a secular form of government


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-...er-calls-for-religion-in-constitution/7357312

" Turkey should have a religious constitution, its parliamentary speaker Ismail Kahraman has said in comments that will likely add to concerns of the erosion of secularism under the ruling party.

"As a Muslim country, why should we be in a situation where we are in retreat from religion?" state-run news agency Anatolia quoted him as saying.

"We are a Muslim country. As a consequence, we must have a religious constitution," the AKP lawmaker told a conference in Istanbul.

"Secularism cannot feature in the new constitution."

Critics accuse President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Islamic-rooted AKP of eroding the secular values laid by modern Turkey's founder Mustafa Kemal Ataturk since it took power in 2002. "


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Only goes to show that every Muslim majority country has Islamic hegemony and even the poster child for secular Muslim country is not too far from it. The power of the AKP shows there is a lot of grassroots support for Islamism . How long can Turkey's secular establishment and citizens hold off the Islamist chauvinists??

One more thing that needs to be pointed out is how the Speaker says Turkey is a Muslim country . When Muslims are the majority they demand everyone accept their country as Muslim but when they are the minority they want tolerance and support secular parties.

Even though Islam is anti liberal Muslims in the West support liberal parties , gee I wonder why.....

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

"One more thing that needs to be pointed out is how the Speaker says Turkey is a Muslim country . When Muslims are the majority they demand everyone accept their country as Muslim but when they are the minority they want tolerance and support secular parties."

This statement goes along way at giving evidence that Islam is a poisonous ideology. In the case of Muslim dominated states v human indexes - we see a significant increase one side comes with a huge decrease on the other side - despite what some sherdoggers think, correlation does imply causation with these...people.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Turkey should've never been held up as some example of what a Muslim country, before Erdogan was going full Islamist that country saw multiple coups which overthrew democratically elected governments.

The one good thing Erdogan has done is make the military subservient to the civilian government.

 

[MicroBrew]

Turkey should've never been held up as some example of what a Muslim country, before Erdogan was going full Islamist that country saw multiple coups which overthrew democratically elected governments.

The one good thing Erdogan has done is make the military subservient to the civilian government.

Yeah that was one of the positive side effects of Erdogan .

With Turkey and Egypt and infact many other Muslim countries, we see that it is the people themselves that want implementation of Islamic government. Mursi captured the largest share of votes of all parties. In Turkey the people are the ones who put AKP on top.

Muslim societies want a controlled fascistic form of government. Event though there are dissenters the masses want Islamic domination.

 

[Bald1]

This came as a complete and shocking surprise to those of us paying attention.

 

[Bald1]

Muslim societies want a controlled fascistic form of government. Event though there are dissenters the masses want Islamic domination.

This seems obvious to me, I just don't understand it. Anyone have an explanation?

 

[2DUM2TAP]

Yeah cause that form of government is working so well in other areas?

 

[Abezal]

These are the people Merkel wants in the Eu. I'm my life i will see a major war in Europe, with the stupidity of the Germans at the forefront. Hope this time we take out the threat once and for all.

Is stumped that any in the world can honestly believe, muslims and Islam can exist together with freedoms and democratic life. Its like asking a rattle snake not to bite.

 

[Rod1]

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yeah that was one of the positive side effects of Erdogan .

With Turkey and Egypt and infact many other Muslim countries, we see that it is the people themselves that want implementation of Islamic government. Mursi captured the largest share of votes of all parties. In Turkey the people are the ones who put AKP on top.

Muslim societies want a controlled fascistic form of government. Event though there are dissenters the masses want Islamic domination.

Its important to realize that what makes some of these Islamist parties popular isn't necessarily Islamic domination, this is a simplistic way to look at the picture. In the case of the Egyptian election the Muslim Brotherhood was the only opposition party with credibility and name recognition. The rest were tainted by association with the Mubarak regime or were formed after Mubarak stepped down and were too young, fragmented, and poorly organized and funded to compete with the Brotherhood. The military even facilitated this by allowing the campaigns to only run for a few months. Like many other Islamist parties they took advantage of a huge amount of protest votes that were ripe for the picking

A lot of times the Islamist parties run on platforms of anti-corruption and economic social justice, ideas that are popular in corrupt and underdeveloped societies. On on the social justice promise a lot of them have a track record to back it up. The Muslim Brotherhood runs many clinics and schools and hospitals and youth centers and many Islamist groups around the world have copied the model of the Brotherhood because of how successful it is.

The AKP found success after it had moderated its message a lot which is what some Islamist parties do. It didn't exactly brand itself as the Muslim Brotherhood as far as I know. In many cases they try to emphasize non-religious aspects of their platform like anti-corruption and social justice and downplay the religious component.

Of course its most certainly true that one probably would have to be a devote Muslim to vote for the Muslim Brotherhood and its a hop and a skip away from accepting them for their social justice platform to accepting whatever Islamofascist ideas they might have.

I think this is necessary though. For the Islamists elections might turn out to be a case of be careful what you wish for because you just might get it. Those protest voters that brought them to power might take them out of it. Just like the Arab world grew tired of Arab nationalism and Arab socialism and Baathist ideologies they might grow tired of Islamism if it doesn't deliver prosperous societies.

 

[Supereem]

I worry if Turkey gets EU membership and hordes of peasants have the right to live freely in the EU.

I also worry about Neo ottoman isn and the west not intervening when turkey tries to flex. I see Germany as weak. As a Greek I have faith the Slavs will be the ones to stand up with us against them.

 

[Islam Imamate]

This seems obvious to me, I just don't understand it. Anyone have an explanation?

A key point to remember is that the mosque is sort of a safe space for political activity. Even the most totalitarian regimes tread carefully when it comes to trying to squash political dissidents who use the network of mosques. Not to mention a lot of these societies don't have a robust civil society or systems of tertiary education which are traditional sources of political activism, partly because of the military dictatorships which crush all political dissidents which includes secular political opposition as well as the fact that these societies just aren't that developed and so they don't have the same demand for universities and professional association the developed nations do. So the Islamists have access to a backbone of mosques from which to organize and spread their message which makes them a more resilient opposition ideology in the fact of totalitarian regimes than their secular counterparts. Add to this the financial support from the outside and that head start gets even more dramatic. And when their civil societies and universities do start to develop the activism within them is likely to start out with an Islamist bent because of the groundwork the Islamist groups have laid at the community level, not to mention Islam is just ingrained in their culture.

Its not unlike how the Civil Rights movement in the US used churches to organize. Let's remember MLK was a Reverend, that gives him an audience and a network to collaborate with. Its similar in the Islamic world.

 

[Abezal]

I worry if Turkey gets EU membership and hordes of peasants have the right to live freely in the EU.

I also worry about Neo ottoman isn and the west not intervening when turkey tries to flex. I see Germany as weak. As a Greek I have faith the Slavs will be the ones to stand up with us against them.

End of western Europe as we know it if they ever get in.

Slavs will be the only ones left.

 

[RespectableDenizen]

I worry if Turkey gets EU membership and hordes of peasants have the right to live freely in the EU.

I also worry about Neo ottoman isn and the west not intervening when turkey tries to flex. I see Germany as weak. As a Greek I have faith the Slavs will be the ones to stand up with us against them.

I genuinely don't know how true it is but I've read about how the Greeks are the bitches of the Turks, is this true? I'm talking about genocidal acts and freely going in Greek territory. Is this not true? If it is how are you guys ever going to stand up to them?

 

[Bald1]

A key point to remember is that the mosque is sort of a safe space for political activity. Even the most totalitarian regimes tread carefully when it comes to trying to squash political dissidents who use the network of mosques. Not to mention a lot of these societies don't have a robust civil society or systems of tertiary education which are traditional sources of political activism, partly because of the military dictatorships which crush all political dissidents which includes secular political opposition as well as the fact that these societies just aren't that developed and so they don't have the same demand for universities and professional association the developed nations do. So the Islamists have access to a backbone of mosques from which to organize and spread their message which makes them a more resilient opposition ideology in the fact of totalitarian regimes than their secular counterparts. Add to this the financial support from the outside and that head start gets even more dramatic. And when their civil societies and universities do start to develop the activism within them is likely to start out with an Islamist bent because of the groundwork the Islamist groups have laid at the community level, not to mention Islam is just ingrained in their culture.

Its not unlike how the Civil Rights movement in the US used churches to organize. Let's remember MLK was a Reverend, that gives him an audience and a network to collaborate with. Its similar in the Islamic world.

Thanks for the detailed response.

 

[Supereem]

I genuinely don't know how true it is but I've read about how the Greeks are the bitches of the Turks, is this true? I'm talking about genocidal acts and freely going in Greek territory. Is this not true? If it is how are you guys ever going to stand up to them?

Genocide today? No not at all. Most Greeks were subjects of the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire until Greek liberation and the exodus of the Greek's from "Turkey" since then. If genocide happened on Greek territory today it would mean war.

Greece has military conscription and all Greek males serve in the military. Greece is always ready for war and the Raiders (special forces) are deployed in strategic locations and ready for an invasion. However defeating Turkey is no easy task if Greece's allies decide to bitch out.

End of western Europe as we know it if they ever get in.

Slavs will be the only ones left.

Luckily it is not in Slavic culture to take shit (neither is it in Greek either). They won't get bullied by Turkey and are always down for a fight, despite the odds. And with Putin in charge of Russia im sure all of Eastern Europe feels Russia will fulfill their 'protector' role of the Slavs/Orthodox. For all the shit American's here give Putin, at least Eastern Europeans who have to actually live right next to Asia see him as more of a protector than the West right now. (Ukraine excluded of course).

 

[Abezal]

Luckily it is not in Slavic culture to take shit (neither is it in Greek either). They won't get bullied by Turkey and are always down for a fight, despite the odds. And with Putin in charge of Russia im sure all of Eastern Europe feels Russia will fulfill their 'protector' role of the Slavs/Orthodox. For all the shit American's here give Putin, at least Eastern Europeans who have to actually live right next to Asia see him as more of a protector than the West right now. (Ukraine excluded of course).

lol pretty much every one not Russian hates Russia and Putin. But maybe in some jidadist world war even the likes of Russia Ukrain Poland Belarus and the rest can play nice for a bit and kill the common enemy (don't hold your breath). Though they are quite good at fighting among them selves.

Seriously none see him as a protector of anything, some only deal with him for the fact they are to small and have no choice really.

And if you think Russia are gonna save Greece then the Greeks are more fucked them ever.

 

[Supereem]

lol pretty much every one not Russian hates Russia and Putin. But maybe in some jidadist world war even the likes of Russia Ukrain Poland Belarus and the rest can play nice for a bit and kill the common enemy (don't hold your breath). Though they are quite good at fighting among them selves.

Seriously none see him as a protector of anything, some only deal with him for the fact they are to small and have no choice really.

And if you think Russia are gonna save Greece then the Greeks are more fucked them ever.

Slavs I meet from slavic balkan countries are generally supporters of Putin. Russians who have left Russia still support him. Former Yugoslavs might hate each other on religious grounds but none of them have beef with Russia, which has always been a father like figure to the slavs. You underestimate the support Putin gets, slavs admire strongmen and it explains his popularity (in Russia) in the first place. Americans like to propagate this notion that Putin isn't a legitimate head of state and he rigs elections or something. This is false, he is in power because the people love him.

It is not in Russia's interest for Turkey, Russia's historical rival, to regain past territories (whether in Europe or Asia). Of course Russia would be keen to intervene in such a circumstance. In the past its own Muslim population has even supported such action. Id have more faith in Russia intervening than say a German army. If Turkey joins the EU then the rest of the EU will refuse to take sides. It will be like Cyprus all over again but with bigger consequences.

 

[Abezal]

Slavs I meet from slavic balkan countries are generally supporters of Putin. Russians who have left Russia still support him. Former Yugoslavs might hate each other on religious grounds but none of them have beef with Russia, which has always been a father like figure to the slavs. You underestimate the support Putin gets, slavs admire strongmen and it explains his popularity (in Russia) in the first place. Americans like to propagate this notion that Putin isn't a legitimate head of state and he rigs elections or something. This is false, he is in power because the people love him.

It is not in Russia's interest for Turkey, Russia's historical rival, to regain past territories (whether in Europe or Asia). Of course Russia would be keen to intervene in such a circumstance. In the past its own Muslim population has even supported such action. Id have more faith in Russia intervening than say a German army. If Turkey joins the EU then the rest of the EU will refuse to take sides. It will be like Cyprus all over again but with bigger consequences.

lol are you high ?


Ruskis admire him cause hes Russian, and they know how full of shit he is more then any one else. But they are Russian they will support their OWN, they could give a flying fuck less about any one else. He is in power cause he destroys any one and everyone that could ever challenge a time honored Russian strategy.

Nor is it Russia interest to send their soldiers to die for lol Greeks and the balkans, pretty worthless locations for them. Its not the Caucasus where they actually could directly conflict with the Turks.

If your ass is Greek and you want the Ruskis to save you, might as well start learning Russin and making pierogis now for your new masters.

 

[Rod1]

lol are you high ?


Ruskis admire him cause hes Russian, and they know how full of shit he is more then any one else. But they are Russian they will support their OWN, they could give a flying fuck less about any one else. He is in power cause he destroys any one and everyone that could ever challenge a time honored Russian strategy.

Nor is it Russia interest to send their soldiers to die for lol Greeks and the balkans, pretty worthless locations for them. Its not the Caucasus where they actually could directly conflict with the Turks.

If your ass is Greek and you want the Ruskis to save you, might as well start learning Russin and making pierogis now for your new masters.

What? no Ruskis can totally be trusted, i mean they liberated Poland from the nazis lol.