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Law Trumps home raided

jefferz said:
Here's something to ponder during your sobriety. Out of all the people that Trump surrounded himself with, why is Mike Pence the only one not under investigation?
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probably because the fly ain't cooperating

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lilelvis said:
Here in interesting Time Magazine article on classification from 2017. I wonder if they feel the same today:

https://archive.ph/2022.09.24-004744/https:/time.com/4780593/president-trump-russia-declassified/
An excerpt:
Timothy Naftali, Clinical Associate Professor of History and Public Service at New York University and former director of the Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, goes all the way back to the Constitution and the basic structure of power in the United States.
“The president is the ultimate authorizing authority,” as he puts it.

The power to classify and declassify information — like the duty to protect intelligence sources and methods — has been reshaped several times over the course of American history, but the two powers are linked. The person or agency that has the right to keep something secret (or the successor agency, if original agency no longer exists) is the same one that has the right to decide when it should be made public. The hierarchical structure of government means that, in general, if a person has that power, so do her direct superiors, all the way up the chain. The President, at the top of the ladder, is everyone’s superior.
A concise explanation of what’s going on can be found in this 1974 Indiana Law Journal article about executive power and national security, by Charles R. Nesson: “Technically any official has authority to declassify any information classified by people subordinate to him. Thus when the President speaks, whether to the nation, to a reporter in private, or to a friend over cocktails, he automatically declassifies as he goes. There is no procedure, no paperwork. The same is true for other officials so long as they do not stray from the pyramids of classified information which have been generated beneath them.”
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If this is true than Trump only has to say he declassified those documents when he was president and he doesn't have to prove anything. Doesn't make sense to me but if that's the law, it's the law...
 
The Todd said:
If this is true than Trump only has to say he declassified those documents when he was president and he doesn't have to prove anything. Doesn't make sense to me but if that's the law, it's the law...
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The records don’t belong to him either way.
 
The Todd said:
If this is true than Trump only has to say he declassified those documents when he was president and he doesn't have to prove anything. Doesn't make sense to me but if that's the law, it's the law...
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Lol doesn't matter if the documents are classified or not. Those warrants didn't specify any crime that relied on the documents being classified.
 
Clifford_Harris said:
Lol doesn't matter if the documents are classified or not. Those warrants didn't specify any crime that relied on the documents being classified.
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As the goal posts move, it becomes more and more like the Judicial watch case..

just sayin’
 
The Todd said:
If this is true than Trump only has to say he declassified those documents when he was president and he doesn't have to prove anything. Doesn't make sense to me but if that's the law, it's the law...
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It's a person's opinion, not case law (unless of course I overlooked that when I read it).

But as mentioned over and over and over, the warrants served for the search at Mar a Lago don't require that any of the documents be classified. The search was legal and justified regardless, right?

Documents were found after a lawyer for Trump swore in a written statement that the documents were all returned, regardless of whether any of them were classified, right? Doesn't that sound like a criminal offense to you whether the documents were classified or not?
 
Andy Capp said:
It's a person's opinion, not case law (unless of course I overlooked that when I read it).

But as mentioned over and over and over, the warrants served for the search at Mar a Lago don't require that any of the documents be classified. The search was legal and justified regardless, right?

Documents were found after a lawyer for Trump swore in a written statement that the documents were all returned, regardless of whether any of them were classified, right? Doesn't that sound like a criminal offense to you whether the documents were classified or not?
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See that interview I posted. 11th circuit agrees and calls the classification argument a red herring
 
AWilder said:
it's a weird part of this whole story as the guy they called doesn't appear to be that influential
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It would only have to be someone who could communicate the information to someone who is higher up but trying to keep a distance (in terms of communication/association) from the WH. Rudy Giuliani isn't the only one who uses burner phones, I expect.

In other words, if you're right, I'd say that person had a direct line of communication to one of the leaders for just this sort of purpose, in the attempt to create plausible deniability against just these sorts of accusations of coordination and planning. But in this web of coms traffic the guy Beau was apparently talking about (haven't seen the interview he references) they can surely follow the outbound coms of the guy who received the call from the WH and follow what transpired from there.

It's awesome in the original sense to see how this information can be gathered, processed, and turned into cogent data that can be used to track the flow of who is talking to whom and when, and what happens as a result with such precision. Here's hoping it results in the arrest of all who set this up.
 
Andy Capp said:
It's a person's opinion, not case law (unless of course I overlooked that when I read it).

But as mentioned over and over and over, the warrants served for the search at Mar a Lago don't require that any of the documents be classified. The search was legal and justified regardless, right?

Documents were found after a lawyer for Trump swore in a written statement that the documents were all returned, regardless of whether any of them were classified, right? Doesn't that sound like a criminal offense to you whether the documents were classified or not?
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I don’t think that lawyer was lying. He worked for a corporation ‘The office of DJ Trump’ or something like that.. The subpoena was served to them and they didn’t have dominion over the doc’s at Mar a Lago.. not sure how it effects the case.
 
lilelvis said:
As the goal posts move, it becomes more and more like the Judicial watch case..

just sayin’
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lol.

you're in the "he declassified with his mind" camp?

again, there's no indication he declassified anything, his team, when pressed, chose not to present any evidence he did so. AND, as indicated, it doesn't change whether he's allowed to keep the records. and there would be no way for NARA or the DOJ or any agency to know he declassified anything without any evidence he did so. oh, and when you declassify, it goes into public record.......via NARA.......

and of course, you thought that trump could just claim the classified records were PRIVATE, because clinton designated records that were never classified as private. are you still confused on this point? (It’s you changing the narrative as the walls close in)……
 
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kflo said:
lol.

you're in the "he declassified with his mind" camp?

again, there's no indication he declassified anything, his team, when pressed, chose not to present any evidence he did so. AND, as indicated, it doesn't change whether he's allowed to keep the records. and there would be no way for NARA or the DOJ or any agency to know he declassified anything without any evidence he did so. oh, and when you declassify, it goes into public record.......via NARA.......

and of course, you thought that trump could just claim the classified records were PRIVATE, because clinton designated records that were never classified as private. are you still confused on this point? (It’s you changing the narrative as the walls close in)……
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the thing is the trump team has so much evidence that they do not know what to do with it all. its this superabundance of evidence that is going to be the downfall of the trump team.
 
kflo said:
lol.

you're in the "he declassified with his mind" camp?

again, there's no indication he declassified anything, his team, when pressed, chose not to present any evidence he did so. AND, as indicated, it doesn't change whether he's allowed to keep the records. and there would be no way for NARA or the DOJ or any agency to know he declassified anything without any evidence he did so. oh, and when you declassify, it goes into public record.......via NARA.......

and of course, you thought that trump could just claim the classified records were PRIVATE, because clinton designated records that were never classified as private. are you still confused on this point? (It’s you changing the narrative as the walls close in)……
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For there to even be an argument of formal declassification, he needs to have at least outwardly expressed it, which he hasn't done (or he hasn't shown us that he did), nor do we know when the documents were transferred over, and whether it was right before the election loss which poses a problem regarding intent. The fact that these are and were formally categorized as classified documents remains an issue, but a red herring in response to his alleged illegal holding of government property. It's an ongoing investigation that will take up a lot of man hours and resources, but important nonetheless, including possible charges for violating the espionage act.
 
lilelvis said:
As the goal posts move, it becomes more and more like the Judicial watch case..

just sayin’
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That is not a goal post move, not even a little bit.

The DOj had all sorts of statutes they could have cited re the removal of Classified material, storage, etc, that would be an additional offense and potential charge and they did not include any of them as they anticipated the 'I declassified them' defense, and even though that defense would lose, they did not need the hassle at this point of the delays of litigating that.

Instead they only cited laws and offenses re storage of 'official gov't documents' which all declassified doc's remain and are illegal to take outside the gov'ts control.


That has ALWAYS been the only charge here no matter how much forum dwellers like discussing the much worse Classified material threat, issues.
 
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