Economy Trump's April 2nd Tariffs

[Deorum]

Our economy was never destroyed lmao. It has ups and downs, but destroyed?

Chyner Was On The Ropes!

Client Challenge

The Reason China Can’t Stop Its Decline

The conventional wisdom on China has shifted but still misses the bigger picture.

foreignpolicy.com

China's Economic Slump Is Here to Stay

Growth rates are flagging as an unsustainable mountain of debt piles up that cannot realistically be repaid.

time.com

The view that China was the emerging geopolitical power, with developing nations tucked under its wings, is looking similarly shaky. It is now unclear whether China’s GDP will ever surpass the U.S. and nations around the world are rethinking their ties to Beijing and the debt trap that is the Belt and Road Initiative.

Meanwhile, China’s population growth is done. Chinese entrepreneurs are leaving the country. Optimism is dimming among Chinese youth. The Chinese stock market is tanking. Foreign direct investment is in freefall, as global business seeks alternatives to the “world’s factory” that don’t come with the same geopolitical risk, and Big State political meddling. The economic indicators are so bad that Beijing is pulling many of them from public view. As for the United States, it is chugging along as the world’s fastest-growing and most dynamic economy. Inflation is down while jobs, real wages, and productivity are going up.

@Rod1

 

[Deorum]

Do Something, @Islam Imamate.

 

[jefferz]

JoeSixpack has watched most of the lucrative jobs he's qualified for move overseas. Either that or wages have stagnated because of illegal migration so he can't support his family anyway.

And one of the best paying jobs that JoeSixpack can still get, work in the oilfield, have now went away because Trump is an idiot.
It's not just the people working on the rig that are going to lose their jobs. There are welders, roughnecks, flowback operators, water haulers, pumpers, etc. Those people losing their jobs have a ripple effect on things like grocery stores, auto dealers, bars, beauticians, and just about every other business in these oil towns.

Trump was going to "revive" the oil industry. Drill, baby drill were the words he used.

At least, prices haven't dropped to $53 a barrel like they were when he left office last time.

Or worse yet, $17 a barrel that occurred under his first term.

Blaming illegal immigrants for low wages is fucking asinine. Companies that refuse to pay a livable wage is why wages are low.

 

[ChosenOne]

Um yeah. US manufacturing power has been totally lost to foreign entities over the past 30-35 years . We've lost all of what we used to lead the world at and gained nothing.We produce next to nothing now. Countries are buying from China what they used to buy from us. Products we used to produce are being built in Mexico and sold to us. etc, etc , etc.

I mean, you need no more proof that what the tariffs have done in the short term. We ask for a little more and its a literal economic apocalypse. We have been raped repeatedly in trade.

And you do not think that is simply due to lower cost labor in 3rd world countries who scaled up manufacturing capacity?

You cannot defend against that because if you wall up and allow no foreign goods in, you find over time you are paying 5 times the cost for automobiles, etc that the rest of the world is and that leads to your auto manufaturers, and others becoming massively uncompetitive, as they cannot sell to the world market and just selling internal is not enough. let alone your citizens do not want to pay such a massive premium compared to other countries.

Australia actually tried this at the beginning of the Free Trade era, and it followed the exact path i say above. Worked for a while until the citizens realized their companies were falling way behind and would not survive and at the same time the citizens were paying far more.

 

[jefferz]

Trump doing more for BRICS than BRICS could ever do for themselves

Trump doesn't even know what BRICS is.

“They’re a BRICS nation, Spain. Do you know what a BRICS nation is? You’ll figure it out,” he told the reporter from the presidential desk in the Oval Office.

Trump mistakes Spain for a member of the BRICS bloc and repeats the threat of massive tariffs

U.S. president Donald Trump has apparently confused Spain for a member of the BRICS bloc of developing economies, causing some head-scratching and jitters over possible tariffs in Madrid.

apnews.com

 

[ChosenOne]

AI Overview
Australia's history includes periods of protectionist economic policies, but these eventually led to economic inefficiencies and a push for liberalization in the 1980s, resulting in faster growth and improved living standards.

Historical Context and the Rise of Protectionism:

• Early Policies:
  Following federation in 1901, Australia adopted a protectionist approach, characterized by tariffs, import quotas, and a regulated labor market, aiming to boost population growth, maintain stable economic growth, and achieve an equitable distribution of incomes.
  
  
• "Fortress Australia":
  This inward-looking approach, sometimes referred to as "Fortress Australia," aimed to protect domestic industries from foreign competition.
  
  
• Expansion of Protection:
  For decades, the extent of protection grew, encompassing tariffs, import licensing, and export controls.
  
  
• Economic Costs:
  While initially seemingly successful, the long-term economic costs of protectionism became increasingly evident.

The Shift Towards Liberalization:

• Economic Reforms:
  In the mid-1980s, a new reformist government began dismantling protection as part of a broader economic reform program, which also included deregulation, privatization, and a flexible exchange rate.

• Positive Outcomes:
  The transition to a more liberalized economy led to faster economic growth and an unprecedented rise in Australians' living standards.

• Lessons Learned:
  Australia's experience demonstrates the importance of finding a balance between protecting domestic industries and fostering a competitive and globally integrated economy.
  
  
• Current Context:
  The Australian Government Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade is currently facing the challenge of navigating a world where protectionist tendencies are on the rise, while also seeking to maintain and expand its trade relationships.

 

[ChosenOne]

...

Do you acknowledge at this time, as Trump now basically is, that his claim that it was 'foreign countries who would pay the tariffs and America would get rich off tariffs', was a complete and total lie?

Trump is now acknowledging the 'pain' America will feel as the tariffs kick in and are paid, short term, while also saying that as jobs shift back to America, America will benefit long term.

That is Trump saying as tariffs are applied and paid, short term it will be American citizens paying them and harmed, but eventually as jobs shift back to America and no more tariffs are paid, then America will be better off.


(i am not addressing the other fallacy in Trumps position and only outlining how his current arguments put the LIE to his prior claim of how tariffs would make America wealthy.)

 

[GergreG]

Um yeah. US manufacturing power has been totally lost to foreign entities over the past 30-35 years . We've lost all of what we used to lead the world at and gained nothing.We produce next to nothing now. Countries are buying from China what they used to buy from us. Products we used to produce are being built in Mexico and sold to us. etc, etc , etc.

I mean, you need no more proof that what the tariffs have done in the short term. We ask for a little more and its a literal economic apocalypse. We have been raped repeatedly in trade.

Is it possible that all those extremely wealthy US entrepreneurs realised they could profit more by manufacturing their products in China, Bangladesh, Vietnam and other poorer countries? Instead of paying US workers US$10 per hour they could pay a Chinese person US$10 a month. Then those clever Chinese people stole all that IP and became great copycats and have benefited greatly from it.

Bring all those industries back to the US and who is going to work in all these factories after Trump has evicted all those immigrants that would fill a lot of those lower paying jobs? Even with the tariffs these entrepreneurs will still do the sums, of quitting their factories in SE Asia and recreating new ones in the US, and that isn't going to be cheap and maybe not worth it.

In Australia we had to create a new visa arrangement with Pacific countries because nobody wanted to pick fruit. Instead of bumping up salaries to attract workers Australia granted Pacific Islanders a visa. Who wants to pay $20 for a punnet of strawberries?

This is a big gamble by Trump. Even his staunchest supporters must concede that. It's a fine line between bullying the rest of the world to get what you want, when there is a real possibility of the rest of the world being pushed too far and pushing back (which is what is happening) or worse still.

 

[Fedor>Cain]

Um yeah. US manufacturing power has been totally lost to foreign entities over the past 30-35 years . We've lost all of what we used to lead the world at and gained nothing.We produce next to nothing now. Countries are buying from China what they used to buy from us. Products we used to produce are being built in Mexico and sold to us. etc, etc , etc.

I mean, you need no more proof that what the tariffs have done in the short term. We ask for a little more and its a literal economic apocalypse. We have been raped repeatedly in trade.

You should be forced to reattend high school like Billy Madison.

The only reason we dominated manufacturing was because half the world got blown up in the 1940s. Expecting the United States economy to never change in the face of competition from other markets is just fucking stupid?

 

[curryjunkie]

Global economic downturn -> rise of authoritarianism and hardlining of regimes -> it's the 1930s all over again.

I can quite easily see Mr " no more foreign wars" launching one as a distraction as this all goes tits up, Iran better brace, funny how they are quite happy to pile in on some desert dwellers, but pussy out when it comes to Putin..

 

[lsa]

"Musk hopes for "zero tariffs"
Billionaire and Trump advisor Elon Musk said on Saturday that he hopes that Europe and the United States will agree to introduce "zero tariffs", which would in practice create a free trade zone between them.

- I hope that we can agree that both Europe and the United States should ideally move towards a zero-tariff situation, which would in practice create a free trade zone between Europe and North America, Musk told Italian Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini.

AFP reports"

 

[Damien Karras]

why you hate penguins?

The penguins will take care of him

 

[Fedor>Cain]

And one of the best paying jobs that JoeSixpack can still get, work in the oilfield, have now went away because Trump is an idiot.
It's not just the people working on the rig that are going to lose their jobs. There are welders, roughnecks, flowback operators, water haulers, pumpers, etc. Those people losing their jobs have a ripple effect on things like grocery stores, auto dealers, bars, beauticians, and just about every other business in these oil towns.

Trump was going to "revive" the oil industry. Drill, baby drill were the words he used.

At least, prices haven't dropped to $53 a barrel like they were when he left office last time.

Or worse yet, $17 a barrel that occurred under his first term.

Blaming illegal immigrants for low wages is fucking asinine. Companies that refuse to pay a livable wage is why wages are low.

Hey guys, you remember when Trump was bringing back coal in 2016?

 

[Crazy Source]

I can quite easily see Mr " no more foreign wars" launching one as a distraction as this all goes tits up, Iran better brace, funny how they are quite happy to pile in on some desert dwellers, but pussy out when it comes to Putin..

Not that Trump isn't a pussy, but he didn't "pussy out" with Putin. Trump and Putin have a symbiotic relationship.

 

[Loiosh]

To anyone who ever asked why as a Canadian I cared about US elections...

I lost a year's salary from my investments this week thanks to Trump and his brilliant policies.

 

[44nutman]

And one of the best paying jobs that JoeSixpack can still get, work in the oilfield, have now went away because Trump is an idiot.
It's not just the people working on the rig that are going to lose their jobs. There are welders, roughnecks, flowback operators, water haulers, pumpers, etc. Those people losing their jobs have a ripple effect on things like grocery stores, auto dealers, bars, beauticians, and just about every other business in these oil towns.

Trump was going to "revive" the oil industry. Drill, baby drill were the words he used.

At least, prices haven't dropped to $53 a barrel like they were when he left office last time.

Or worse yet, $17 a barrel that occurred under his first term.

Blaming illegal immigrants for low wages is fucking asinine. Companies that refuse to pay a livable wage is why wages are low.

I am in $DRIP right now and it’s cranking. I made a ton of money off oil stocks last time Trump tanked oil prices I bought in and finally sold them this February. I will take my $Drip profits and go back to buying oil stocks again but not yet. Oil companies will eventually be like oil is too cheap and we ain’t drilling. Then that is the time to buy oil stocks after Trump tanked their share price again.
I just hate having to hustle so much to make money. Plus buying puts is like betting under in sports . Biden had the market on easy mode it just always went up.

 

[Bballfan123]

So actual question

Will tariffs lead to... Inflation? Deflation? I do t understand macroeconomics

If this actually goes through and manufacturing jobs are added they're gonna have to pay more than $15/hr. No one is gonna leave their job at McDonald's that pays $16/hr to go work a brutal repetitive job in a factory. Regardless of skills, there isn't exactly an extreme labor surplus. Most people can find SOME THING at least in my area.

Companies in my experience are very hesitant to pay decent mostly out of bitterness or what have you. So if these are entry jobs they'll have a hard time attracting actual people to work them. If they require actual skills there just aren't skilled manufacturing workers especially people who want to work for a real wage. No 30 yr old female is working in a factory for less than $100k.

Or the jobs will pay bad. But I dont see landlords lowering their prices. In today's America an adult cannot make $8/hr. You'll be homeless

So what will happen? Inflation? Or smth else?

 

[Siver!]

This is just like when you dorks started quoting Kim Jong Un in Trumps first term.

Xi planted a tree! *swoon*

Why for saying it's "pretty boss"?

Yeah, totally lol

Sit down.

 

[jefferz]

Hey guys, you remember when Trump was bringing back coal in 2016?

The only thing in coal he brought back was the ability for coal plants to dump more toxic waste into our waterways.

Trump administration finalizes coal plant pollution rollback​

It’s the latest in a string of regulatory rollbacks for coal power under Trump — actions that have failed to turn around the industry’s decline amid competition from cheap natural gas and renewable energy.

The latest rule change covers requirements for cleaning coal ash and toxic heavy metals such as mercury, arsenic and selenium from plant wastewater before it is dumped into waterways.

 

[MrShady]

To anyone who ever asked why as a Canadian I cared about US elections...

I lost a year's salary from my investments this week thanks to Trump and his brilliant policies.

New talking points from Sean Hannity and Jesse Watters telling Seano and CuckTuck and the others to suffer now for the greater good.

Short term pains for long term gains = keep subscribing to the cult and don't question the process