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Law Trump to create taskforce targeting anti-Christian practices: "Bring God back"

ColemanwastheGOAT said:
100%. I'm an atheist but I wish I could have faith in a creator. I just don't. And it's not for some edgy reason, I just don't feel it in my soul.
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Yeah I'm definitely more on the agnostic side because I think atheism is just another form of religion.
 
Koro_11 said:
Yeah I'm definitely more on the agnostic side because I think atheism is just another form of religion.
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Some people claim atheism but really they worship the state or themselves or something else. Lately you see people who worship the notion of science.
 
Koro_11 said:
For sure, it's important to separate those two things because many people like to conflate them as the same. Organized religion is almost certain to be wrong simply due to how many different organized religions there are. In theory only one could possibly be correct, but the most likely answer is that they're all wrong, what are the odds some group of men got the right answer and wrote it in a book? Next to zero.

But the idea of some entity bringing the universe into existence is much more compelling, and in my opinion more plausible than the everything out of nothing and for not reason idea.
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Yeah I think my major issue with organised religion is there being an almighty power that gives the slightest shit about what I do on a day to day basis.
 
ColemanwastheGOAT said:
Some people claim atheism but really they worship the state or themselves or something else. Lately you see people who worship the notion of science.
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Yeah I think that's the only problem with not believing in some greater purpose, you end up with a need to fill that void with something else. If you look at the wokies they display all the characteristics of religious zealots, guilt, self flagellation, shaming others for not believing... it's basically another form of Christianity, the only thing they took out was forgiveness and redemption.
 
Hellowhosthat said:
Yeah I think my major issue with organised religion is there being an almighty power that gives the slightest shit about what I do on a day to day basis.
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Yeah I agree, if I had to bet I would have to lean towards the universe or creator being much like nature in that it created what it created and it doesn't care or monitor what you do with it.

HOWEVER

I do think that people in general are better towards each other if they live as if a greater being is watching them, which is why I think such belief does have it's utility, which is why I imagine it survived for millennia.
 
Lycandroid said:
So you don't think there is any ideological overlap between two neighboring countries that consume the same media with policies and culture that have always mirrored each other ?
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No, because in America, the Christian right is one of the most politically powerful groups in the country.

The Christian right's example of "anti-Christian" bias is having to make a wedding cake for a gay couple or being forced to adhere to the 1st amendment. It's not exactly the days of the Romans where Christians were being fed to the lions.

I don't know what's going on in Canada and I don't care. It's not relevant to what Trump is doing in America.
 
Koro_11 said:
Yeah I think that's the only problem with not believing in some greater purpose, you end up with a need to fill that void with something else.
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Well not really because those people do believe in a higher power. They're just misapplying the term 'atheist' to themselves.
 
Koro_11 said:
Yeah I agree, if I had to bet I would have to lean towards the universe or creator being much like nature in that it created what it created and it doesn't care or monitor what you do with it.

HOWEVER

I do think that people in general are better towards each other if they live as if a greater being is watching them, which is why I think such belief does have it's utility, which is why I imagine it survived for millennia.
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I definitely agrees it has it's pros and cons and keeps some of us in line, it's basically the grown up version of telling kids to behave if they want Santa to bring them good presents imo.

For me we could equally be some alien kid's school science project that they left in a cupboard.
 
Hellowhosthat said:
I definitely agrees it has it's pros and cons and keeps some of us in line, it's basically the grown up version of telling kids to behave if they want Santa to bring them good presents imo.

For me we could equally be some alien kid's school science project that they left in a cupboard.
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Funny coincidence: I sometimes say I'm some 11-dimensional kid's high school project and I want a do-over lol.

As far as the existence of God is concerned, I'm with Stephen Hawking on this. God may have created the universe, and if so he did a pretty great job, but there's no evidence to suggest he had any hand in what has happened since. He/it could be hanging out watching things unfold, but to take direct action? I don't think so.

I'd like to think fear of punishment should not be necessary to keep people from turning out shitty, but we're human--turning out shitty is what we do.

On the other hand, I believe spirituality is still to be had in a fundamental interconnectedness of all things (credit to Kurt Vonnegut for the expression). My life is so replete with weird and amazing coincidences and unbelievable luck, and counterbalanced with difficulties many others never face, that I am very open to the idea there's shit going on that neither I nor anyone else understands. Even so, that's likely just statistical variation. For every person like me who experiences weird coincidences every single day there is very likely some person at the other end of the curve for whom nothing remarkable ever happens, pretty much. So, yeah, an open mind is good but it's also good to not lose sight of why we know what we know about the world.
 
Someone said it and I'll say it again

American Taliban. Give it a few years but soon they'll convince you women should only stay home and get married right after school and do nothing else with their lives except raise kids.
 
Koro_11 said:
Yeah, if anything I think the smug atheist types who will ridicule people for believing in a creator are even worse than your average believer in a way.

They look down on the idea of miracles for example, but they're perfectly ok with the miracle of everything around us just simply exploding into existing out of absolutely nothing, for no reason whatsoever. I just never understood why this is supposed to be the more rational take??
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Its special pleading. Adding a creator adds another variable. A more honest explaination is not knowing because we don't know that the Big Bang was what created the universe. Only that matter expanded and time started. But we don't know before that. Theism is the belief that something came out of nothing by definition.

ColemanwastheGOAT said:
They do

See: scientism during covid.
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I think it's a bad faith argument to argue people trusting health organizations and not getting info from unsourced Twitter posts are religiously worshipping science. Trusting is not worshipping. Science is the most trustworthy and objective measurement we have. Otherwise you're appealing to incredulity and "trust me bro". Science CAN be wrong and I don't think any honest person would argue the opposite and that's the beauty of science. Its self correcting the more data you have.
 
The country was founded on separation of church and state.

As long as he follows the constitution and no state religion is established and whatever this panel does follows this for all religions I have no problem with this.

Just for information when I was in the Navy we had a nightly prayer at 10pm over the intercom ship wide every night.

So something like that is not new.
 
GrantB13 said:
Its special pleading. Adding a creator adds another variable. A more honest explaination is not knowing because we don't know that the Big Bang was what created the universe. Only that matter expanded and time started. But we don't know before that. Theism is the belief that something came out of nothing by definition.
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Ok, so we're basically saying the same thing, we simply don't know.

This is why I'm so put off by the fervent atheist types who make their case as if they do know, when in fact there is nothing more plausible about their theory than the guy who believes in a creator. Yet they seem to always assume they have some moral high ground and their position is somehow more based in science.

GrantB13 said:
I think it's a bad faith argument to argue people trusting health organizations and not getting info from unsourced Twitter posts are religiously worshipping science. Trusting is not worshipping. Science is the most trustworthy and objective measurement we have. Otherwise you're appealing to incredulity and "trust me bro". Science CAN be wrong and I don't think any honest person would argue the opposite and that's the beauty of science. Its self correcting the more data you have.
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Well you just said it yourself, it's self correcting the more data we have, except no other data was permitted and one side just claimed that they had the monopoly on science.

As for trusting "the experts", there were plenty of experts with all the credentials who disagreed and whose voices were silenced because they dared to question the status quo.
 
oldshadow said:
The country was founded on separation of church and state.

As long as he follows the constitution and no state religion is established and whatever this panel does follows this for all religions I have no problem with this.

Just for information when I was in the Navy we had a nightly prayer at 10pm over the intercom ship wide every night.

So something like that is not new.
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Was anyone ostracized for not participating in the prayer?
 
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