Social Trump says windmeal noise causes cancer

[Beechwood]

The only thing I can think of is that poor sleep or no sleep as in working the night shift is associated with increased cancer risks.

I guess don't sleep near anything noisy at night, wind mills included, when wanting to prevent cancer.

 

[Prutfis]

More anti-science liberals.

Denying that “clean coal” technology exists, that is currently in service today, isn’t going to strengthen anyone’s argument.

lol. Now that is the pot calling the kettle black. Might want to do a bit of research on the topic so you don´t look like such a monumental moron. It´s a term coined by the coal industry for low IQ rubes. There is absolutely nothing clean about it and converting every US coal plant to run with carbon capture is not really a viable solution anyways.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/23/climate/what-clean-coal-is-and-isnt.html

 

[Clippy]

Where do they sell Make America Great Again ear buds so I can block out the cancer noises?

 

[Damien Karras]

Kills lots of birds and totally inadequate for consistent energy production. Trumps comment is goofy, but its the kind of comment that this bullshit technology deserves. If you are serious about reducing carbon emissions, and you don't want to screw over most of humanity then nuclear is the way to go. Anyone who pretends that is not the case is a watermelon piece of crap.

There is no single solution to energy production while avoiding environmental impacts entirely, but a combination of energy production systems used appropriately can maximize energy production and minimize environmental impacts. Nuclear is a good option in some places but it remains very costly but there are obvious risks involved and we still don't know what to do with nuclear waste other than store it indefinitely.

Wind, solar, hydro and other renewable sources of energy are complimentary to the grid. Trump's comments are ignorant to say the least but either come from a need to pander to his base to favor coal, or from complete stupidity. I don't care which one it is because it's horribly wrong altogether. For him to suggest windmills cause cancer is... you know what it is. And you have a president whose arrogance is so astounding that he can announce to the world a complete lie but he knows it will not detract his admirers.

 

[Damien Karras]

This whole conversation is hilarious. Trump was actually mocking the idea and making fun of latest overly sensitive purist when it comes to wanting their little safe space.
The discussion has been ongoing about "infrasound" and wind mills for quite some time.
And now "their" saying. He's mocking how stupid the whole discussion is.
But don't let that stop the party.

A small sample from a long article.

https://ramblingsdc.net/wtnoise.html

Research on infrasound by Associate Professor Con Doolan; 2013/02/06
Associate Professor Con Doolan gave a presentation to a meeting of wind farm opponents, the Waterloo Concerned Citizens Group. The meeting was not advertised to the general public. (Professor Doolan had earlier told me by email that he would keep me informed on the progress of his research. He has given me nothing and did not inform me about the meeting.)
For a scientist, attached to a major Australian university (Uni. of Adelaide), who one would hope was independent, unbiased and objective, to release his findings only to a group that is on one side of the controversy over wind farm noise, before publishing, and not giving supporters of wind power a chance to attend is questionable ethical behaviour. I have emailed Professor Doolan on this point (2013/02/06).

It seems that Professor Doolan did not make any very specific statements about the noise levels from the wind farm. He is reported as saying:

"further research would need to be undertaken to determine whether or not the noise experienced by residents was a result of the wind turbines, and to do this researchers would need the cooperation of the wind farm operator, Energy Australia."
Professor Doolan said that Energy Australia (EA) had declined to cooperate with his research. I put this to Steve Brown of EA and was told that the reasons for this were that "EA had problems with Doolan's methodology" and the cooperation that Doolan was wanting involved economic loss of production to the wind farm.

As of 2013/03/31 I had not received a response from Professor Doolan.

So the data on sound being a nuisance to population near the farms is inconclusive. Cancer isn't even mentioned. Trump specifically cited cancer as an effect of windmills. Do you see what is wrong with that?

 

[Damien Karras]

The only thing I can think of is that poor sleep or no sleep as in working the night shift is associated with increased cancer risks.

I guess don't sleep near anything noisy at night, wind mills included, when wanting to prevent cancer.

yeah sure

and coal and high levels of carbon dioxide, pollutants, waste being dumped into waterways (and all regulatory measures that were cut during his administration) have a much more direct link to cancer and other health issues than a potential risk to lessening quality of sleep.

 

[Letssnuggle]

lol. Now that is the pot calling the kettle black. Might want to do a bit of research on the topic so you don´t look like such a monumental moron. It´s a term coined by the coal industry for low IQ rubes. There is absolutely nothing clean about it and converting every US coal plant to run with carbon capture is not really a viable solution anyways.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/23/climate/what-clean-coal-is-and-isnt.html

Unfortunate for your argument, science isn’t emotional.

I’ve researched it. It’s still really exists.

 

[Prutfis]

Unfortunate for your argument, science isn’t emotional.

I’ve researched it. It’s still really exists.

So one of the very rubes this term was meant for. Not surprised. Not even a little.

 

[ferrisjso]

Kills lots of birds and totally inadequate for consistent energy production. Trumps comment is goofy, but its the kind of comment that this bullshit technology deserves. If you are serious about reducing carbon emissions, and you don't want to screw over most of humanity then nuclear is the way to go. Anyone who pretends that is not the case is a watermelon piece of crap.

Biggest problem with nuclear is that humans are stupid. it's 100% safe if treated with care but some idiot will put a backup reactor next to an ordinary reactor. But yes minus that nuclear could have solved this crisis in the 1970s.

 

[phipps66]

At first I was very worried because everyday on my way to work and home I drive by a wind turbine. Being exposed to it's noise for probably 10 total minutes a day. Luckily it doesn't sound like those are the problem. Looks like the closest windmill to me is in Massachusetts so I think my family and I are safe.

 

[MicroBrew]

I am surprised the Trump defenders have yet to infuse this thread with their canned "TDS" & "Orange man bad" response. Maybe even they realize Trump's statement is moronic.


Trump had a dispute with Scottish authorities, regarding the offshore wind-farms that were visible from Trump's Scottish golf course. He tried to prevent their building because he felt it ruined the views from his golf course.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-47400641

 

[Krayd]

Isn’t a windmill and wind turbine 2 different things?

I’m pretty sure it is..

One is using wind to mill and the other uses wind for... turbineing. Turbineing is word right?

I’m pretty sure it is..

 

[Scheme]

A lot of uneducated, ignorant idiots in this thread, as per usual:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ed_by_mechanotransduction_cellular_signalling

At present, infrasound (0-20 Hz) and low-frequency noise (20-500 Hz) (ILFN, 0-500 Hz) are agents of disease that go unchecked. Vibroacoustic disease (VAD) is a whole-body pathology that develops in individuals excessively exposed to ILFN. VAD has been diagnosed within several professional groups employed within the aeronautical industry, and in other heavy industries. However, given the ubiquitous nature of ILFN and the absence of legislation concerning ILFN, VAD is increasingly being diagnosed among members of the general population, including children. VAD is associated with the abnormal growth of extra-cellular matrices (collagen and elastin), in the absence of an inflammatory process. In VAD, the end-product of collagen and elastin growth is reinforcement of structural integrity. This is seen in blood vessels, cardiac structures, trachea, lung, and kidney of both VAD patients and ILFN-exposed animals. VAD is, essentially, a mechanotransduction disease. Inter- and intra-cellular communication is achieved through both biochemical and mechanotranduction signalling. When the structural components of tissue are altered, as is seen in ILFN-exposed specimens, the mechanically mediated signalling is, at best, impaired. Common medical diagnostic tests, such as EKG, EEG, as well as many blood chemistry analyses, are based on the mal-function of biochemical signalling processes. VAD patients typically present normal values for these tests. However, when echocardiography, brain MRI or histological studies are performed, where structural changes can be identified, all consistently show significant changes in VAD patients and ILFN-exposed animals. Frequency-specific effects are not yet known, valid dose-responses have been difficult to identify, and large-scale epidemiological studies are still lacking.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15273020

Vibroacoustic disease (VAD) is a whole-body, systemic pathology, characterized by the abnormal proliferation of extra-cellular matrices, and caused by excessive exposure to low frequency noise (LFN). VAD has been observed in LFN-exposed professionals, such as, aircraft technicians, commercial and military pilots and cabin crewmembers, ship machinists, restaurant workers, and disk-jockeys. VAD has also been observed in several populations exposed to environmental LFN. This report summarizes what is known to date on VAD, LFN-induced pathology, and related issues. In 1987, the first autopsy of a deceased VAD patient was performed. The extent of LFN induced damage was overwhelming, and the information obtained is, still today, guiding many of the associated and ongoing research projects. In 1992, LFN-exposed animal models began to be studied in order to gain a deeper knowledge of how tissues respond to this acoustic stressor. In both human and animal models, LFN exposure causes thickening of cardiovascular structures. Indeed, pericardial thickening with no inflammatory process, and in the absence of diastolic dysfunction, is the hallmark of VAD. Depressions, increased irritability and aggressiveness, a tendency for isolation, and decreased cognitive skills are all part of the clinical picture of VAD. LFN is a demonstrated genotoxic agent, inducing an increased frequency of sister chromatid exchanges in both human and animal models. The occurrence of malignancies among LFN-exposed humans, and of metaplastic and displastic appearances in LFN-exposed animals, clearly corroborates the mutagenic outcome of LFN exposure. The inadequacy of currently established legislation regarding noise assessments is a powerful hindrance to scientific advancement. VAD can never be fully recognized as an occupational and environmental pathology unless the agent of disease--LFN--is acknowledged and properly evaluated. The worldwide suffering of LFN-exposed individuals is staggering and it is unethical to maintain this status quo.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1420326X9600500107

Low-frequency noise, centred around a frequency of about 7 Hz, was found to occur in several office rooms investigated. Symptoms resulting from exposure to infrasound can include fatigue, headache, nausea, concentration difficul ties, disorientation, seasickness, digestive disorders, cough, vision problems and dizziness, that is, symptoms typical of the sick building syndrome. Many of the occupants exhibited such symptoms. It is shown that the low-frequency component of ventilation noise is often being amplified in the tightly sealed rooms. Repeated or long-term exposure to such amplified infrasound may be triggering an allergic-type response in individuals.

 

[ocfightfan]

Biggest problem with nuclear is that humans are stupid. it's 100% safe if treated with care but some idiot will put a backup reactor next to an ordinary reactor. But yes minus that nuclear could have solved this crisis in the 1970s.

How many people have died from nuclear power plant accidents in world history?

 

[ferrisjso]

How many people have died from nuclear power plant accidents in world history?

I don't know. But generally I get it's irrational feared and could have cut emissions to zero. But there also are risks to it, and the reason nuclear is irrationally feared is because people in the past generally were not responsible.

 

[Wrath of Foamy]

Animal cruelty.



Scum.

 

[ocfightfan]

There is no single solution to energy production while avoiding environmental impacts entirely, but a combination of energy production systems used appropriately can maximize energy production and minimize environmental impacts. Nuclear is a good option in some places but it remains very costly but there are obvious risks involved and we still don't know what to do with nuclear waste other than store it indefinitely.

Wind, solar, hydro and other renewable sources of energy are complimentary to the grid. Trump's comments are ignorant to say the least but either come from a need to pander to his base to favor coal, or from complete stupidity. I don't care which one it is because it's horribly wrong altogether. For him to suggest windmills cause cancer is... you know what it is. And you have a president whose arrogance is so astounding that he can announce to the world a complete lie but he knows it will not detract his admirers.

Nice boiler plate, and excuses. Nuclear can be used everywhere, because electricity can be transmitted thousands of miles over transmission lines. The up front investment IS expensive, but the lifetime cost per kilowatt hour is unbeatable. 44 people have died from nuclear power plant accidents in world history. Nuclear waste can be recycled in thorium salt reactors.

All of the so called "green" solutions have their own environmental impacts and cannot produce the amounts of energy we need in the way that we need it. It needs to be rapidly scaleable on demand. I can't predict the future. Maybe in some Star Trek future technology will be invented that makes wind, solar, and hydro viable but right now it looks like it's limited by the laws of physics and will NEVER truly solve our energy needs.

People spout off about Trumps nonsense, and fair enough, but the green movement have been lying to people for decades. They are a bunch of communists who hate capitalism and humanity. They continuously promote unrealistic solutions and scaremonger about everything else. If they were serious they would promote nuclear energy.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Sounds like when he said we might find out Saudi Arabia was behind 9-11.

He says whatever he thinks people want to hear. That's the art of the deal.

 

[ocfightfan]

I don't know. But generally I get it's irrational feared and could have cut emissions to zero. But there also are risks to it, and the reason nuclear is irrationally feared is because people in the past generally were not responsible.

The answer is 44.

And you are right about the irrational fear part. I won't say that there have never been bad or irresponsible acts in the nuclear energy industry, but the overall level of responsible behavior and safety has been greater than any other part of the energy sector, and really most industries.

The reason why people are afraid is because of scaremongering, and conflating the overhyped but real incidents with the use of nuclear bombs in war.

 

[MicroBrew]

More anti-science liberals.

Denying that “clean coal” technology exists, that is currently in service today, isn’t going to strengthen anyone’s argument.

'Clean Coal' is a P.R. term. There certainly is technology that mitigates some of the pollution associated with Coal fired gen plants, such as scrubbers. And coal plants today , adopting the newest technology, are certainly cleaner than older plants but Coal is still a very polluting form of power generation, and not on the same level as renewable in regards to emissions.