Opinion Trump orders swathes of US forests to be cut down for timber

It looks like none other than @Rational Poster is poised to be your 2028 nominee, which you should favor since he's a pro-market liberal and firm believer of American exceptionalism. In regards to the latter: I was going to say that the Dems need a nice injection of patriotism back into the party if for no other purpose than to serve as counterweight to all of the apologizing and groveling over social justice the last 10 years.
Trump called America the garbage can of the world, that would've sunk not only a campaign but also a political career a generation ago.

Meanwhile Kamala said America was already great and leaned into patriotic messaging but to no avail because she couldn't overcome the advantage of Trump's celebrity status which gives him endless leeway it seems.
 
Trump called America the garbage can of the world, that would've sunk not only a campaign but also a political career a generation ago.

Meanwhile Kamala said America was already great and leaned into patriotic messaging but to no avail because she couldn't overcome the advantage of Trump's celebrity status which gives him endless leeway it seems.

It's a fucking joke.

One thing about a drimp reelection is that it would Make Conservatives Patriotic Again practically overnight. They are some very irritable boys when a Republican is not in the White House. Libs for the most part are pessimistic about the nation regardless, so it's more annoying when Cons are throwing a fit.
 
I really appreciate your passion, knowledge, and willingness to learn us half a retards on the subject. Thanks dude. Born and bred in the NW, it's something I value to the core and the thought of potentially destroying large swaths of wilderness terrified me

Essentially, all this executive order does is expedite the permitting process for logging on federal lands where it has always been allowed and encouraged, with a dual 'national emergency' EO tied to it that everyone knows is laughable horseshit. The claimed figure of "280 million acres" in the OP and by various outlets to be at risk of clear-cutting is outright fiction. The legal issues they're likely still going to run into are primarily based on what the Admin is instructing the Fish & Wildlife Service to do to expedite the process. The Endangered Species Act of 1973 is a real pain in the ass for any entity looking to extract and exploit natural resources, and they seem to know it.

Yeah, don't care about the staff to be honest. Have been to most of the parks and the staff only annoyed me. Love them, Americas treasures, don't touch the land.

Have you made it out to the GYE yet?

 
Essentially, all this executive order does is expedite the permitting process for logging on federal lands where it has always been allowed and encouraged, with a dual 'national emergency' EO tied to it that everyone knows is laughable horseshit. The claimed figure of "280 million acres" in the OP and by various outlets to be at risk of clear-cutting is outright fiction. The legal issues they're likely still going to run into are primarily based on what the Admin is instructing the Fish & Wildlife Service to do to expedite the process. The Endangered Species Act of 1973 is a real pain in the ass for any entity looking to extract and exploit natural resources, and they seem to know it.



Have you made it out to the GYE yet?

Regretfully, I have not. I have it on my summer list along with Isle Royale in Michigan.

That area is a jewel with a few must see National Parks around it. I bought a 5th wheel last summer, so no excuses this summer.
 
Regretfully, I have not. I have it on my summer list along with Isle Royale in Michigan. That area is a jewel with a few must see National Parks around it. I bought a 5th wheel last summer, so no excuses this summer.

It is the epitome and mecca of all national treasures IMO, the ecosystem at large encompasses over 20 million acres with more hydrothermal features than the rest of the planet combined and the highest concentration of mammalian wildlife to be found in the western hemisphere. There are two national parks, three national wildlife refuges, six national forests, and ten designated wilderness areas in the GYE alone.

It is the progenitor of the worldwide conservation movement, possessing arguably the most robust and unparalleled protections of any region on the earth, which include but are not limited to the Yellowstone National Park Protection Act (1872), National Park Service Organic Act (1916), Wilderness Act (1964), Wild and Scenic Rivers Act (1968), and National Environmental Policy Act (1970) with class 1 designations under the Clear Air Act (1970), Clean Water Act (1972), and Endangered Species Act (1973).





 
Regardless, as long as Trump's grubby paws off the Everglades I won't have to become an ecoterrorist. That is one swamp that should not, cannot, and will not be drained.

Yeah, fuck that. It's the crown jewel of the coastal plain and one of the most unique ecosystems found anywhere in the world with a treasure trove of biodiversity. One of the things I worry most about it is how much impact local and state policies can wield given the proximity it has to major metropolitan areas compared to a lot of others. We have a whole group of national parks with world heritage site status, and that is one of them.

* Everglades (FL)
* Grand Canyon (AZ)
* Glacier (MT)
* Great Smoky Mountains (TN/NC)
* Mammoth Cave (KY)
* Olympic (WA)
* Redwood (CA)
* Yellowstone (WY)
* Yosemite (CA)

The facts about some of them are a lot fun, like Mammoth Cave being the longest known system on the planet (over 100 miles longer than the next on the list); the Great Smokies packing nearly as many tree species into its 525,000 acres as there are to be found on the entire continent of Europe; Coast Redwoods being by far the tallest trees on earth with no competitors; Yellowstone possessing more hydrothermal features than the rest of the planet combined. Grand Canyon is known for the enormous size and scale of its dimensions and incredibly aesthetic erosional formations, but what actually puts it over the top is that it exposes the most complete geological record of the earth's history to be found anywhere.
 
It's a fucking joke.
Unless you mean American libs specifically, I'm not sure I agree with the generalization about pessimism. Not counting the last 12 months, that is.
 
Forest Preservation vs Forest Annihilation

Randy Moore is an American soil scientist and forester and served as the 20th Chief of the US Department of Agriculture Forest Service, from July 2021 until massive DEI layoffs March 2025.

440px-Randy_Moore%2C_Forest_Service_Chief.jpg



Tom Schultz is an American corporate lumber industry lobbyist, appointed by Trump as the new 21st Chief of USDA Forest Service.
images


So which one was more qualified?
 
Forest Preservation vs Forest Annihilation

Randy Moore is an American soil scientist and forester and served as the 20th Chief of the US Department of Agriculture Forest Service, from July 2021 until massive DEI layoffs March 2025.

440px-Randy_Moore%2C_Forest_Service_Chief.jpg



Tom Schultz is an American corporate lumber industry lobbyist, appointed by Trump as the new 21st Chief of USDA Forest Service.
images


So which one was more qualified?

Moore surprisingly wasn't fired by Trump (and nothing to do with DEI), but he was upset about the workforce cuts. He voluntarily resigned and had already been eyeing a well-deserved retirement after 45 years with the USFS. The replacement is most certainly a huge downgrade, at best. In a twist of irony, it has really been the progressive environmentalists and legal organizations who represent those interests that have stood in the way of Moore (and the Forest Service at large) from being able to effectively do his job.

Everyone is well aware of the conservative capitalist's role as an arch enemy: All they care about is the privatization of public lands and turning profits from exploiting natural resources -- nevermind that we've only seen a one-way exponential increase in the amount of protected, publicly owned American wilderness over decades. On the other side of the coin is the progressive environmentalist standing in opposition to foresters, fire chiefs, and ecologists by obstructing necessary mechanized thinning and prescribed burning to remove overgrown vegetation and dry understory that has turned our forests into over-fueled tinderboxes for catastrophic wildfires.

It makes little sense, especially when those particular tools also help to mitigate disease and invasive species. So, the Republicans ever so ironically to the rescue? Nope, especially not when considering how labor intensive and expensive the aforementioned things are to do over any sizeable amount of acreage, and that's on top of the incredibly challenging terrain of the forests located in the Mountain West.
 
Moore surprisingly wasn't fired by Trump (and nothing to do with DEI), but he was upset about the workforce cuts. He voluntarily resigned and had already been eyeing a well-deserved retirement after 45 years with the USFS. The replacement is most certainly a huge downgrade, at best. In a twist of irony, it has really been the progressive environmentalists and legal organizations who represent those interests that have stood in the way of Moore (and the Forest Service at large) from being able to effectively do his job.

Everyone is well aware of the conservative capitalist's role as an arch enemy: All they care about is the privatization of public lands and turning profits from exploiting natural resources -- nevermind that we've only seen a one-way exponential increase in the amount of protected, publicly owned American wilderness over decades. On the other side of the coin is the progressive environmentalist standing in opposition to foresters, fire chiefs, and ecologists by obstructing necessary mechanized thinning and prescribed burning to remove overgrown vegetation and dry understory that has turned our forests into over-fueled tinderboxes for catastrophic wildfires.

It makes little sense, especially when those particular tools also help to mitigate disease and invasive species. So, the Republicans ever so ironically to the rescue? Nope, especially not when considering how labor intensive and expensive the aforementioned things are to do over any sizeable amount of acreage, and that's on top of the incredibly challenging terrain of the forests located in the Mountain West.
That's correct.
 
That's correct.

All of it.

Why did you delete the pic?

At least we got a glimpse, pure class.

It's a lot of land but my understanding is that a lot of that land isn't suitable for farming and the current system allows some of that land for grazing. And anyway in modern societies most people live in cities near the coasts so I think it makes sense to preserve or manage parts of the interior. As long as commercial activity is carefully managed, as I imagine that it is, then I don't have an issue.

Burgum's Take FTR.

NoDak Senator Questioning NoDak Governor.



wpl.png


Largest Managers:

* Bureau of Land Mgmt (245 million acres)
* Forest Service (193 million acres)
* Fish and Wildlife Service (95 million acres)
* National Park Service (85 million acres)
* Bureau of [Native] Affairs (56 million acres)
* Department of Defense (25 million acres)

@evergreenrider
 
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Yeah, don't care about the staff to be honest. Have been to most of the parks and the staff only annoyed me.

Love them, Americas treasures, don't touch the land.

I think you need a degree of staff to stop people from fucking the wilderness up tbh. Especially in the areas that are more touristy destinations. People not from the country often don't respect the country.
 
I think you need a degree of staff to stop people from fucking the wilderness up tbh. Especially in the areas that are more touristy destinations. People not from the country often don't respect the country.

Chinese nationals are particularly horrendous on this front, and I've got absolutely no qualms about directly pointing them out. I've easily filled a whole 30-gallon trash bag just casually walking around the south rim of the Grand Canyon (where 90% of all visitation is concentrated and one of many reasons I prefer the north). Euros of all nationalities are generally respectful and mostly just in awe of what they're looking at, kind of fun to engage with since I rarely ever leave America (lol).

The NPS employs all manner of rangers (backcountry, interpretative, maintenance, law enforcement, search and rescue, resource management), and I'd be hard pressed to say they aren't all necessary. The parks enjoy an extraordinary amount of protection, but there's a dual accessibility mandate that requires a level of infrastructure so that all people can enjoy them (think small children, disabled individuals, the elderly) and that accessibility lends itself to visitation that exceeds 330 million people annually across the system. They must be supervised.
 
Chinese nationals are particularly horrendous on this front, and I've got absolutely no qualms about directly pointing them out. I've easily filled a whole 30-gallon trash bag just casually walking around the south rim of the Grand Canyon (where 90% of all visitation is concentrated and one of many reasons I prefer the north). Euros of all nationalities are generally respectful and mostly just in awe of what they're looking at, kind of fun to engage with since I rarely ever leave America (lol).

The NPS employs all manner of rangers (backcountry, interpretative, maintenance, law enforcement, search and rescue, resource management), and I'd be hard pressed to say they aren't all necessary. The parks enjoy an extraordinary amount of protection, but there's a dual accessibility mandate that requires a level of infrastructure so that all people can enjoy them (think small children, disabled individuals, the elderly) and that accessibility lends itself to visitation that exceeds 330 million people annually across the system. They must be supervised.

Yeah as much as you shouldn't need people to say "don't drop your trash here" sometimes you absolutely do need people to say that.
 
Yeah as much as you shouldn't need people to say "don't drop your trash here" sometimes you absolutely do need people to say that.

If the staffing cuts aren't reversed (and fast), I fully expect a record setting year in 2025 for deaths and missing persons as well, on top of the typical Darwin candidates that are practically asking for it.



They can't even hide the frustration.


Over 250 people are rescued from the canyon each year. The difference between a great adventure in Grand Canyon and a trip to the hospital (or worse) is up to YOU. DO NOT attempt to hike from the rim to the river and back in one day, especially during the months of May to September.

Many options are available for day hikers. Both the South Rim and the North Rim offer rim trail hikes that have spectacular views of the inner canyon, some on paved trails. Or you can choose to day hike into the canyon. Permits are not required for non-commercial day hikes. Day hiking can be a safer and more enjoyable choice than an overnight trip into a difficult area that is beyond the capabilities of any single member of your group.

WARNING: There are no easy trails into or out of the Grand Canyon!
 
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