Elections Trump Indicted On 91 Counts

[sickc0d3r]

I don't know. Bush got reelected in 2004 after invading Iraq for a weapons of mass destruction program that didn't exist, over the objections of the UN inspectors that had correctly told him as much. It's hard to top that in terms of a complete lack of political accountability or evaluation of competence. For the most part American political dialogue seems to focus on identity issues that really have fuck all to do with Governance. It's seems to be about who hits the right focus group responses in terms of identity politics.

Bush was potus for 9/11 and we were still reeling from that. He was damn good in the following months and it carried him through. I give us at least a pass for being understandably emotional.
And, by the way, that’s the last time I recall all of us feeling like patriots, in it together, regardless of political affiliation.

It’s quite different now. There’s nothing Trump could do that would dissuade his cult from following him, even to prison. The good news is, once he’s gone I doubt anyone will be able to take his place. Maybe we’ll get back to something close to normal then. But, I mean, our normal is still identity politics and politicians spending most of their time campaigning. So, yeah, still not great.

 

[Ruprecht]

Bush was potus for 9/11 and we were still reeling from that. He was damn good in the following months and it carried him through. I give us at least a pass for being understandably emotional.
And, by the way, that’s the last time I recall all of us feeling like patriots, in it together, regardless of political affiliation.

It’s quite different now. There’s nothing Trump could do that would dissuade his cult from following him, even to prison. The good news is, once he’s gone I doubt anyone will be able to take his place. Maybe we’ll get back to something close to normal then. But, I mean, our normal is still identity politics and politicians spending most of their time campaigning. So, yeah, still not great.

The rush to pull the focus from Afghanistan and invade Iraq, despite the complete lack of any actual relation to 9/11 and the resulting utter failure of what essentially should have been a police action to apprehend Bin Laden (but instead became a "nation building mission" in complete opposition to Bush's 2000 election rhetoric), is just another strike against the 2004 election in my opinion.
Add to that Bush's shift to focusing on opposing gay marriage for his campaign rather than anything of actual substance.
The fact that essentially all the republicans that posted here in the War Room decided to become libertarians or "paleoconservatives" and disavow 8 years of support for neoconservative politics and the war in Iraq once Bush left office is just testament to the way American politics plays out.
Zero accountability via the electorate, no consideration of competence, more a team sport than a matter of consistent principles or values.

 

[sickc0d3r]

the right aren't your enemies.

I think most people hold views across the left and right spectrum. It’s nonsensical to treat “the right” or “the left” as a single entity. We aren’t enemies, and we (most of us) have a lot in common.

People who think Trump belongs anywhere near the white house are all morons, though. Right or left or center. There’s your science lesson for the day.

 

[sickc0d3r]

The rush to pull the focus from Afghanistan and invade iraq, despite the complete lack of any actual relation to 9/11 and the resulting utter failure of what essentially should have been a police action to apprehend Bin Laden, is just another strike against the 2004 election in my opinion.
Add to that Bush's shift to focusing on opposing gay marriage for his campaign rather than anything of actual substance.
The fact that essentially all the republicans that posted here in the War Room decided to become libertarians or "paleoconservatives" and disavow 8 years of support for neoconservative politics and the war in Iraq once Bush left office is just testament to the way American politics plays out.
Zero accountability via the electorate, no consideration of competence, more a team sport than a matter of consistent principles or values.

You’ll get no argument from me about whether or not Bush fucked things up, he did. I am just saying it wasn’t about team sports during that time. Bush 2004 is the last time a republican won the popular vote. Judge us how you want for that from your ivory tower that wasn’t demolished by airplanes. We’ve all admitted that second term was a mistake in judgement based on emotion and hatred and fear after being attacked. So be it. It’s nothing like the idiocy we’re dealing with now.

 

[CatchnShoot]

bro, you've seen'em. dems have the establishment media as high class shills and propagandists, and when needed they roll out the red carpet for leftist foot soldiers to burn and loot while they toss MAGAs in prison.

you can't see democratic shills because they're ubiquitous.

lol.

Anybody based in reality is your enemy.

 

[Ruprecht]

You’ll get no argument from me about whether or not Bush fucked things up, he did. I am just saying it wasn’t about team sports during that time. Bush 2004 is the last time a republican won the popular vote. Judge us how you want for that from your ivory tower that wasn’t demolished by airplanes. We’ve all admitted that second term was a mistake in judgement based on emotion and hatred and fear after being attacked. So be it. It’s nothing like the idiocy we’re dealing with now.

I'm not taking being patriotically emotional about 9/11 as an excuse for ignoring the reality of the invasion of Iraq in an election 3 years later, no.
Things were definitely divided on the response to the invasion along partisan lines (this is after it turned out there was no WMD program, the initial invasion had popular support). In fact the degree to which that was true was the whole reason the War Room was made in the first place.

 

[IDGETKTFO]

Lol they were always going to be for trump

You may be right, but they were really ashamed at the time, or at least they acted like they were ashamed. I will admit, i am ashamed i voted for Biden, but no way am i voting for Trump.

 

[sickc0d3r]

I'm not taking being patriotically emotional about 9/11 as an excuse for ignoring the reality of the invasion of Iraq in an election 3 years later, no.
Things were definitely divided on the response to the invasion along partisan lines. In fact the degree to which that was true was the whole reason the War Room was made in the first place.

Yeah, there’s always partisan division. And, no shit, terrorist attacks and war have a tendency to make people emotional. That’s the argument I’m making. It’s not an excuse, it’s recognition of the effect those things can have on the priorities of average citizens. Take it how you like, though.

 

[Strychnine]

You may be right, but they were really ashamed at the time, or at least they acted like they were ashamed. I will admit, i am ashamed i voted for Biden, but no way am i voting for Trump.

Don't let perfect become the enemy of good. A lot of people stayed home in 2016 and now if anyone you know that's a child, gets raped and impregnated? The response is now.




and "Good luck."

 

[CatchnShoot]

Brutality bonus there.

 

[Ruprecht]

Yeah, there’s always partisan division. And, no shit, terrorist attacks and war have a tendency to make people emotional. That’s the argument I’m making. It’s not an excuse, it’s recognition of the effect those things can have on the priorities of average citizens. Take it how you like, though.

The partisanship was quite stark. Once it became obvious the WMD program didn't actually exist, support for the invasion dropped from @75% in 2003 to @46% in October 2004, but 90% of those that identified as Republicans still said the use of force was justified and that America would achieve it's goals with the invasion (Pew). Considerably more partisan than Vietnam. No voting for accountability, despite how many republican voters repudiated neoconservatism once Bush was out of office. Rather there was a whole lot of BS about how Saddam's WMD program had secretly been trucked to Syria, the threat of gay marriage etc etc.
Maybe it's the dynamic of having a president. If someone fucked up that badly here they'd get backstabbed by their own colleagues long before it was put to election.

That sort of voter that will support Bush in 2004 and claim Saddam secretly transported his WMD program sounds a whole lot like the voters that would vote Trump back in and dismiss any accountability for incompetence and anti-democratic actions.

 

[Limbo Pete]

The partisanship was quite stark. Once it became obvious the WMD program didn't actually exist, support for the invasion dropped from @75% in 2003 to @46% in October 2004, but 90% of those that identified as Republicans still said the use of force was justified and that America would achieve it's goals with the invasion (Pew). Considerably more partisan than Vietnam. No voting for accountability, despite how many republican voters repudiated neoconservatism once Bush was out of office. Rather there was a whole lot of BS about how Saddam's WMD program had secretly been trucked to Syria, the threat of gay marriage etc etc.
Maybe it's the dynamic of having a president. If someone fucked up that badly here they'd get backstabbed by their own colleagues long before it was put to election.

the reactionary half of our politics understands very very well that refusing to hold themselves accountable makes it a lot easier to stay in power

 

[Super_Nintendo]

I think most people hold views across the left and right spectrum. It’s nonsensical to treat “the right” or “the left” as a single entity. We aren’t enemies, and we (most of us) have a lot in common.

People who think Trump belongs anywhere near the white house are all morons, though. Right or left or center. There’s your science lesson for the day.

"most people are reasonable and have a shared set of beliefs except 50%+ of the country, they're morons, animals, and savages".

 

[Ruprecht]

the reactionary half of our politics understands very very well that refusing to hold themselves accountable makes it a lot easier to stay in power

Aside from the fact that in some cases it's literally the same posters here in the War Room, the rejection of Bush's culpability in the invasion of Iraq, it's lack of justification and it's impact on the middle east (including the rise of Isis), followed by Libertarianism or Paleoconservatism, and a preoccupation with gay marriage, sounds very much the same to me as the Trump supporters.
Trump supporters that think the charges against him are just political oppression and yet deny Trump's own anti-democratic conduct and seem to think that the self-interest of a billionaire whose only real skills seems to be shameless self-promotion and conspicuous consumption, are supposedly an answer to stagnating wages, the disproportionate flow of wealth to a shrinking number of extremely wealthy individuals and transsexuals.

 

[sickc0d3r]

"most people are reasonable and have a shared set of beliefs except 50%+ of the country, they're morons, animals, and savages".

Only 62% of voting age people even bother to vote. And Trump will be lucky to get 48% of that. So that’s like 30%. And I said they’re morons, not animals and savages. We don’t have to hate people for being morons. I don’t hate you, for example. Especially since you can’t vote.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Aside from the fact that in some cases it's literally the same posters here in the War Room, the rejection of Bush's culpability in the invasion of Iraq, it's lack of justification and it's impact on the middle east (including the rise of Isis), followed by Libertarianism or Paleoconservatism, and a preoccupation with gay marriage, sounds very much the same to me as the Trump supporters.
Trump supporters that think the charges against him are just political oppression and yet deny Trump's own anti-democratic conduct and seem to think that the self-interest of a billionaire whose only real skill seems to be shameless self-promotion, are supposedly an answer to stagnating wages, the disproportionate flow of wealth to a shrinking number of extremely wealthy individuals and transsexuals.

There's a whole thing going on with power entitlement and what amounts to essentially coded language. American reactionaries (I can't speak for the rest of the world) have a bedrock, foundational belief in being born to rule the country. It goes back to the very beginning of us. So the idea of, say, fairness itself doesn't line up with what I think of when I hear the word. If you think you are born to be in charge, then it's naturally unfair for people to threaten your right to power, and it's fair for you to preserve it no matter what, because the alternative is by definition always going to be worse. This is why during the Civil War you had loads of people in the south whining that it was unfair for the North to fight the war with so many advantages... while simultaneously attempting to preserve literal slavery.

 

[Ruprecht]

There's a whole thing going on with power entitlement and what amounts to essentially coded language. American reactionaries (I can't speak for the rest of the world) have a bedrock, foundational belief in being born to rule the country. It goes back to the very beginning of us. So the idea of, say, fairness itself doesn't line up with what I think of when I hear the word. If you think you are born to be in charge, then it's naturally unfair for people to threaten your right to power, and it's fair for you to preserve it no matter what, because the alternative is by definition always going to be worse. This is why during the Civil War you had loads of people in the south whining that it was unfair for the North to fight the war with so many advantages... while simultaneously attempting to preserve literal slavery.

Sounds like the divine right of kings.
Trump supporters want a monarch?

 

[Super_Nintendo]

Only 62% of voting age people even bother to vote. And Trump will be lucky to get 48% of that. So that’s like 30%. And I said they’re morons, not animals and savages. We don’t have to hate people for being morons. I don’t hate you, for example. Especially since you can’t vote.

"30% of the country are morons. i'm not because i'm voting for the dementia patient"

 

[Limbo Pete]

Sounds like the divine right of kings.
Trump supporters want a monarch?

Yeah pretty much, if not in name, then in function
and it's nothing new, either. The plantation class 100% viewed themselves as the rulers of the Earth by divine right, and that sentiment didn't just vanish

 

[4daLuLZ]

The final stage of communism is a moneyless, classless, stateless society.

Funny how MAGAtards already have one of those things down pat, are actively working towards the other and if they keep fking around will be in the last one.
I’ll leave ya’ll to make out which is which.