Triple G punching power

[AndyMaBobs]

ALSO Sano, I love that drill, I started doing it in my room the second I saw it. I was doing something similar before but seeing someone good do it lets me know I'm on the right track haha

 

[j123]

I asked @Harukaze about this in a private message a while ago, about increasing kicking power and he said that do some deadlifts to strengthen your hamstrings but he'd mainly say it's more important to do road work and numerous squat variations.

I won't claim to be a power puncher but I found that I hit harder after working in one legged squats to my routine (I'm working towards pistol squats).

Keep in mind that I'm also training for size but my routine (which I borrowed a bit from Edson Barboza) looks like this:

Dumbbell Squats (light, only 25kg each but I'm not the most athletic guy)
4 sets of 12 reps

Stiff leg deadlift
4 sets of 12 reps

One leg squats (no weights)
2 sets of 12 each leg

21s
4 sets of... 21

The 21s involve 21 squats, but 7 of them you only do the first half of the extension, so from straight to half way down the squat, 7 of the second half of the movement, from half way down to the bottom of your squat, and then you finish up with 7 full squats, which will be harder but also more relaxing to know the sets near the end.

Like I mentioned before I borrowed my routine from Edson Barboza to help with kicking power, but as far as I'm aware the muscles used in kicking and punching are not TOO different. I would also say to have a good solid core workout.

The deadlifts will help your core but I would recommend stuff like pull ups (does your back count as core? IDK) and variations, as well as more complex bodyweight exercises like sit outs.


If someone else with more experience than me comes along and tells you to avoid these exercises, then avoid them, but I just found that these worked for me to hit harder, but also helped me gain some weight in muscle. Bare in mind, I am a manlet. Hope this helps @Davem10

Not enough curls, that routine is set for failture

 

[aries]

I can't be bothered to look for it now but one scientific boxing study on punch power found this, the main reason HW's hit harder than LW's is higher effective mass. Speed is the other factor involved in power but this varied little between weights which was surprising i.e. HW's punch as fast as LW's. The difference comes down to effective punching mass which could explain why someone like GGG punches so hard if the mass with which you punch comes down to technique. So in essence punching power is just speed of the punch times mass of the punch.

HW's have more mass to punch with so it's easier for them to generate a high effective mass even with not great technique but someone like GGG generates a high effective mass because he has such good technique on his punches, essentially his kinetic chain linking is simply better than other MW's. That allows him to generate power all the way along the kinetic chain from his feet all the way through his body into his hands. This is achieved by perfecting punch mechanics but also some people have naturally better kinetic chain linking i.e. you are born with power. GGG is no doubt a natural as well as having great technique on top of it.

There are of course other intangibles at play when a punch lands like timing, distancing and accuracy. GGG has all these qualities as well which enhances the effect of his power.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Not enough curls, that routine is set for failture

Whenever I get a notification from you, I always know its a joke of some sort

I should up my curl game tho, need to make my arms stronger for arm punches

 

[j123]

Whenever I get a notification from you, I always know its a joke of some sort

I should up my curl game tho, need to make my arms stronger for arm punches

fucking lol

I think I've been in the berry too much that its spreading. Instead of giving positive critique or helping newer fighters out, its gonna eventually become

random poster: Guys, can you rate my first fight? The vid's a bit grainy as my sister recorded the fight on her phone
j123: post pics of your sister for proper advice.
j123: TS is a canlet flyweight 0/10, sister is a Boise 1 whale, w00d not bang

 

[AndyMaBobs]

fucking lol

I think I've been in the berry too much that its spreading. Instead of giving positive critique or helping newer fighters out, its gonna eventually become

random poster: Guys, can you rate my first fight? The vid's a bit grainy as my sister recorded the fight on her phone
j123: post pics of your sister for proper advice.
j123: TS is a canlet flyweight 0/10, sister is a Boise 1 whale, w00d not bang

You're slowly metamorphosing into a troll 50% of the time you give good advice, the other 50% you come in with something banterous

 

[j123]

You're slowly metamorphosing into a troll 50% of the time you give good advice, the other 50% you come in with something banterous

I think I should troll at my next fight during the weigh ins. Gotta find a way to get a fake removable tattoo that says "You Look Poor" on my chest so my opponent will have to read it

 

[rmongler]

That's essentially what we've been discussing here. I like the judo analogy too, because my sambo coach can hit like a truck despite not having stellar boxing technique from just the power of his core and hips alone from all the work he's done training to throw... and while I hesitate to bring up Rousey out of fear this thread will become about her, she hit very hard probably for similar reasons

Or Dan Henderson. Greco-Roman guys often have big power i've noticed.

 

[ItsTimeToShrekYouUp]

I imagine power cleaning, kettlebell swings, barbell hip thrusts, ab wheel, hanging leg raises would all be helpful. When I started benching I noticed my jab felt more snappy and had more pop to it. I suppose like any other sport, the fundamental compound movements help (squat dead bench row press pull ups dips power cleans) Granted working on technique is vastly superior but the strength gains in the weight room add just that extra bit that goes a long way.

 

[a guy]

Is it really hard to see why GGG hits hard? I have no idea what about him DOESN'T look like he hits like a truck.

Anyway, the way I see it there are two key elements to hitting hard: power generation and power delivery.

Power generation is what we typically think of. The two main factors in generating power are rotation and weight transfer. These things start in the feet. The feet, powered by the muscles in the legs and hips, dig into the ground, using the reactionary force to rotate the hips and shift weight from one foot to another (one foot pushes one foot pulls). The core creates some additional rotational force (obliques and lats), but mostly serves to stabilize as we'll discuss in a minute. Finally, the upper body contributes the last little bit of force, but not enough to be worth anything in its own. It's vitally important for everything to be working in harmony. Maximum power won't be generated if the timing is off. Fire all the right muscles at the right time and you'll be generating power.

Now the real issue, though the often neglected one, is power delivery--taking all that force you're creating and sending it directly into the target. This is where balance comes in. Technically, you can probably generate more momentum by leaning into a punch and throwing your entire body into it (think of how you throw a ball). The problem is you need to be stable on impact. If you aren't, the power doesn't all get sent into the target because you can't brace against the opposing force. This is why hitting with leverage (planting the feet, rotating the body while keeping the weight in between the feet) is preferable for power generation, not to mention for defensive purposes. In addition, this is where posture, first formation and arm position come into play. You want good posture so that your core and shoulders are stable, avoiding any breakdown of power at the joints. You want the arm lined up so that the elbow is on the same line as the direction the force is being applied. You also want to hit with a tight fist and the big knuckles, so it's as hard a striking purpose as possible and there's minimal cushion.

A fighter who can dig into the ground to create power and maintain strong positioning to deliver that power will hit harder without as much effort as someone who isn't grounded or leaves room for energy to leak. This is why technique is so important. Of course, there's a whole host of physiological factors that improve different aspects of this equation. Some people have naturally better muscle insertion/origin points that allow them to generate more power, some people have bigger hands and thicker bones that let them transfer more power to the target, things like that. Being physically stronger and more mobile will obviously allow you to hit harder. However, technique multiplies these factors so it always comes first.

 

[SlicerDM]

Proper technique with good hip movement, good weight transfer, relaxed arm, good timing and precision makes the KO power. Like said before, it's a "chain" with many elements which must work together. Those who have got the "Bang" use their legs and hips. It 's really hard to have it but i don't think it's "natural". It's mainly
provided by work and good coaching. I would say 80 % of the KO power is pure technique, then 20 % from conditionning ( nowadays, it seems that plyometric exercices are the best way to work it )

I support this

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Is it really hard to see why GGG hits hard? I have no idea what about him DOESN'T look like he hits like a truck.

Anyway, the way I see it there are two key elements to hitting hard: power generation and power delivery.

Power generation is what we typically think of. The two main factors in generating power are rotation and weight transfer. These things start in the feet. The feet, powered by the muscles in the legs and hips, dig into the ground, using the reactionary force to rotate the hips and shift weight from one foot to another (one foot pushes one foot pulls). The core creates some additional rotational force (obliques and lats), but mostly serves to stabilize as we'll discuss in a minute. Finally, the upper body contributes the last little bit of force, but not enough to be worth anything in its own. It's vitally important for everything to be working in harmony. Maximum power won't be generated if the timing is off. Fire all the right muscles at the right time and you'll be generating power.

Now the real issue, though the often neglected one, is power delivery--taking all that force you're creating and sending it directly into the target. This is where balance comes in. Technically, you can probably generate more momentum by leaning into a punch and throwing your entire body into it (think of how you throw a ball). The problem is you need to be stable on impact. If you aren't, the power doesn't all get sent into the target because you can't brace against the opposing force. This is why hitting with leverage (planting the feet, rotating the body while keeping the weight in between the feet) is preferable for power generation, not to mention for defensive purposes. In addition, this is where posture, first formation and arm position come into play. You want good posture so that your core and shoulders are stable, avoiding any breakdown of power at the joints. You want the arm lined up so that the elbow is on the same line as the direction the force is being applied. You also want to hit with a tight fist and the big knuckles, so it's as hard a striking purpose as possible and there's minimal cushion.

A fighter who can dig into the ground to create power and maintain strong positioning to deliver that power will hit harder without as much effort as someone who isn't grounded or leaves room for energy to leak. This is why technique is so important. Of course, there's a whole host of physiological factors that improve different aspects of this equation. Some people have naturally better muscle insertion/origin points that allow them to generate more power, some people have bigger hands and thicker bones that let them transfer more power to the target, things like that. Being physically stronger and more mobile will obviously allow you to hit harder. However, technique multiplies these factors so it always comes first.

Do you know any videos online that demonstrate some of those techniques. I imagine most of it is explained in more basic boxing tutorials in some shape or form but I wondered if you knew of any videos that go into the generation and delivery of power in more depth

 

[AndyMaBobs]

I think I should troll at my next fight during the weigh ins. Gotta find a way to get a fake removable tattoo that says "You Look Poor" on my chest so my opponent will have to read it

Fucking. Lol. How have I only just seen this? Please do that.

 

[a guy]

Do you know any videos online that demonstrate some of those techniques. I imagine most of it is explained in more basic boxing tutorials in some shape or form but I wondered if you knew of any videos that go into the generation and delivery of power in more depth

Sorry, forgot to respond to this. Luis' video on fist formation has a ton of great information on power delivery if you pay attention:



From this thread.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/a-sinister-fist-tutorial.2236285/

As for power generation, his tile exercise builds the foundation for punching with leverage:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/tile-exercise-for-boxing.2255705/

I don't know any other videos that go into real depth with this. Most of it I've had to learn from coaching in person, and from observing people better than me.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Sorry, forgot to respond to this. Luis' video on fist formation has a ton of great information on power delivery if you pay attention:



From this thread.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/a-sinister-fist-tutorial.2236285/

As for power generation, his tile exercise builds the foundation for punching with leverage:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/tile-exercise-for-boxing.2255705/

I don't know any other videos that go into real depth with this. Most of it I've had to learn from coaching in person, and from observing people better than me.

Thanks a bunch

 

[AndyMaBobs]

@Sinister & @Sano

I've been practising getting more leverage into my punch. I don't currently have a video but I'll talk you through my steps at the moment and I'm hoping you two would tell me if I'm on the right track.

Rear straight:
Right now I'm slowly punching, so I'll begin by twisting my hips as far as they will go without pain, then I pull my shoulder back as far as that will go to get that bit more extension into the punch, then a moment after dropping my hips lower, I pivot.
I keep my elbow pointed towards the floor until midway through the punch when I turn my fist over.


Lead hook:
I shit my weight back onto my rear foot again twisting the hips and then the shoulders before making contact with the fist.

My lead hook technique hasn't really changed from how I used to do it (throwing a lot of elbows got me generating a lot more power with hooks) but with my left straight I used to just twist my shoulders into the punch and rely on my hips going with it and I often wouldn't have so much of a pivot as much as I would have a shift in the rear foot.

 

[Sano]

@Sinister & @Sano

I've been practising getting more leverage into my punch. I don't currently have a video but I'll talk you through my steps at the moment and I'm hoping you two would tell me if I'm on the right track.

Rear straight:
Right now I'm slowly punching, so I'll begin by twisting my hips as far as they will go without pain, then I pull my shoulder back as far as that will go to get that bit more extension into the punch, then a moment after dropping my hips lower, I pivot.
I keep my elbow pointed towards the floor until midway through the punch when I turn my fist over.


Lead hook:
I shit my weight back onto my rear foot again twisting the hips and then the shoulders before making contact with the fist.

My lead hook technique hasn't really changed from how I used to do it (throwing a lot of elbows got me generating a lot more power with hooks) but with my left straight I used to just twist my shoulders into the punch and rely on my hips going with it and I often wouldn't have so much of a pivot as much as I would have a shift in the rear foot.

Hey my man.

It's really hard to judge the sequencing and how much you get out of it without any videos, but it sounds like it's in the ballpark. Does it feel different? And if so, in what way?

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Hey my man.

It's really hard to judge the sequencing and how much you get out of it without any videos, but it sounds like it's in the ballpark. Does it feel different? And if so, in what way?

ooo I'm a greenbelt now, i'm becoming proficient in the art of sherdog.

I'll upload some videos soon

It feels unusual, I like the feeling of that really big rotation and almost a bit of a stretch and I have a friend who is very gracious, tensed his abs and let me punch him in the stomach with the new technique and the old one and he said it feels a lot harder.

I feel as though I'm not having to exert much force to punch hard, but I also feel like my thighs are closer together than I'd like, occasionally they'll press against each other so I think that on occasion I'm having a stance issue, but it's not all the time.

I also feel a little bit off balance, so I'm definitely going to record a video because I think there may be some positional problems.

 

[SandaKicker]

There are so many factors to speculate about when it comes to punching power. Most have been been covered but if you'd want to get a little geeky about it and try to summarize them:

Power production​

1. The ability to plant and sink during a punch and use ground reactionary forces. In physics, for every action of force there is an opposing and equal reaction. The force pairs. Meaning, that the more you can plant and push force down into the ground, the more force travels up towards you. In this instance it's less horizontal force vectors like running and more vertical ones, although you can manipulate them.

2. (Lower body) explosive power, force production, acceleration, SSC (stretch shortening cycle) and inner and outer moment arms. The muscles ability to create force in a short amount of time and the leverages of the body to multiply that force. A high neurological drive and a fast RDF (rate of force development), amongst other factors like contractile velocity, will increase power production. Max strength of the lower body, trunk stabilizers and back muscles also contribute to that.

Besides the power of the limbs themselves, and keeping with the physics theme, the speed of which someone can turn their hips, or the angular velocity, is especially interesting. If we look at the rotational force multiplier of a toy propeller we get a better idea:

The distance between the point where the force is applied and the axis of rotation is 1/8th inches here. The distance between the tip of the blade and axis of rotation is 4 inches here. You take the blade distance, 4, and divide it by the base distance, 1/8, and you get 32 times force. Meaning that any increase in the speed of the turn at the base is amplified 32 times at the blades. That is why you can make it fly by spinning the base and not the blades.

You obviously can't transfer this directly to punches, because the human body is more complicated than that and punches have very different leverages, but the point is that the speed of the hip turn amplifies the power. A faster turn also means greater elastic power build up and release during the stretch shortening cycle. Now with all that power production, what about delivering that power? That leads us into:

Power transfer:​

3. Muscle co-ordination, balance, stance and ROM (range of motion). As we know, the power starts from the ground and is amplified at the hips while traveling from one link in the chain to another. As one segment decelerates, the power is transfered to the next segment which then in turn accelerates at an even higher velocity. This happens from link to link, accumulating in the arm/fist, and ultimately transfered into the object you are hitting. What are the prequisites for transfering this power most effectively, without any leaks? It's hard to say, but these could be a few of them:

Bracing your core. This one is very important. A strong core, or better yet, a core that can brace while generating and delivering the force, ties the feet and the hands together. We know that neurologically a braced core frees up the extremeties to move, but it also helps transfer the power through your body and keeps you stable.

Mobility and joint ROM. Being able to fluently and freely move the joints through their proper range of motion without resistance or limitations that slows the chain down.

Balance. Being in a good stance, lowered elevation and balanced while throwing the punch. If you're throwing yourself around or falling/leaning (besides the obvious defensive implications), you're not able to draw as much power from the ground and not able to as efficiently control the direction of the power. Not to mention that a lot of the force you create is used to push your body, instead of traveling through it.

Stability, relaxation and muscle co-ordination. It was mentioned earlier in the thread as well. You have to be able to stabilise the joints and be tight enough so that the energy wont leak. At the same time, you have to be relaxed enough so that the energy can travel freely. The way your body co-ordinates that entire synergy is very important. Everything has to happen at the exact right moment. The chain is often as follows; a quick and tight force production initiates the punch, parts immediately relaxes (relatively) speeding up the acceleration, a quick and tight force production delivers the power into the opponent as the punch hits the target. This happens in milliseconds.

4. Timing. Using the opponents momentum against them and being aware of when and when not to punch.

5. Accuracy. Hitting the right spot.

I'd say those are some of the factors. Different fighters use different aspects more than others. Tyson was more explosive power, Golovkin is more balanced, drawing power from the ground and letting it travel through him. Very rough generalisation there.

Just musing. Anyway, it's fun to think about.

That was a great post, thanks!

 

[AndyMaBobs]

That was a great post, thanks!

@Sano likes posts here, and never actually posts