Training Methods of the Old-time Boxers

[wildman1717]

Dempsey supposedly did a lot of heavy manual labor.

I've heard this also.

 

[lukewall]

You're just making things up. In the past two decades, only 3 heavyweight champions have been shorter than 6'1" (Tyson, Byrd, Jones Jr). You have to look back to the 70s and earlier before you start seeing heavyweights being 6'1" or shorter on average.

If you look back to even the days of Dempsey, most HW champions fall in the 6' - 6'3" range with a few exceptions both up and down. You have a few giants in this modern era(Klits, Lewis) but you had them in previous eras too(Carnera, Willard). You're splitting hairs really and it doesn't change the fact that with all the "advances" in strength training + conditioning you still don't see many HWs that can punch like Foreman/Dempsey/Louis/Shavers/Frazier. You'd think with all of these advances in training, you would see more explosive punchers in the HWs. And the fallacy that HWs are bigger is just to cover up the fact that most modern HWs are fatter and less conditioned than previous champions.

 

[belph]

If you look back to even the days of Dempsey, most HW champions fall in the 6' - 6'3" range with a few exceptions both up and down. You have a few giants in this modern era(Klits, Lewis) but you had them in previous eras too(Carnera, Willard). You're splitting hairs really and it doesn't change the fact that with all the "advances" in strength training + conditioning you still don't see many HWs that can punch like Foreman/Dempsey/Louis/Shavers/Frazier. You'd think with all of these advances in training, you would see more explosive punchers in the HWs. And the fallacy that HWs are bigger is just to cover up the fact that most modern HWs are fatter and less conditioned than previous champions.

i weigh the same as jack dempsey and i am leaner than him yet the man would still kick my ass . the whole leaner stonger thing improves a fighter but only to such a small extent

 

[flak]

I don't know if this story is true or not. There are a lot of versions of it. I prefer to think that they're ALL true.

"Late one night during the 1960s, Jack Dempsey stepped out of a taxicab in front of his apartment on East Fifty-third Street, after a long evening of presiding at his Broadway restaurant. He had passed his seventieth birthday. His deep black hair had gone gray.

Two muggers, seeing an elderly party who looked well dressed and well walleted, sprang out of the darkness. Dempsey spun and flattened both. He stood over them and waited while the taxi driver called police. Having felt Dempsey's fists, the assailants refused to get up until the police arrived to protect them."

 

[belph]

I don't know if this story is true or not. There are a lot of versions of it. I prefer to think that they're ALL true.

"Late one night during the 1960s, Jack Dempsey stepped out of a taxicab in front of his apartment on East Fifty-third Street, after a long evening of presiding at his Broadway restaurant. He had passed his seventieth birthday. His deep black hair had gone gray.

Two muggers, seeing an elderly party who looked well dressed and well walleted, sprang out of the darkness. Dempsey spun and flattened both. He stood over them and waited while the taxi driver called police. Having felt Dempsey's fists, the assailants refused to get up until the police arrived to protect them."

they didn't call him Manassa Mauler for no reason so i buy him doing that at seventy

 

[Tosa]

I don't know if this story is true or not. There are a lot of versions of it. I prefer to think that they're ALL true.

"Late one night during the 1960s, Jack Dempsey stepped out of a taxicab in front of his apartment on East Fifty-third Street, after a long evening of presiding at his Broadway restaurant. He had passed his seventieth birthday. His deep black hair had gone gray.

Two muggers, seeing an elderly party who looked well dressed and well walleted, sprang out of the darkness. Dempsey spun and flattened both. He stood over them and waited while the taxi driver called police. Having felt Dempsey's fists, the assailants refused to get up until the police arrived to protect them."

Whether it's true, I can't say, but it's definitely believable. Here's a somewhat similar story about a 72 boxer beating the crap out of a burglar.

Pictured: The battered and bruised face of a burglar who got on the wrong side of a 72-year-old former boxer | Mail Online

 

[bob]

Whether it's true, I can't say, but it's definitely believable. Here's a somewhat similar story about a 72 boxer beating the crap out of a burglar.

Pictured: The battered and bruised face of a burglar who got on the wrong side of a 72-year-old former boxer | Mail Online

i definatly believe its possible too...my first boxing trainer was 68 years old and sparred with me when i had been training for about six months...i literally couldnt and didnt touch him while he counter punched me to the point of embarrassment all the while yelling "hit me" every ten seconds. i guess thats what 136 professional fights the first of which was at age 13 will do for you!!!

 

[flak]

i definatly believe its possible too...my first boxing trainer was 68 years old and sparred with me when i had been training for about six months...i literally couldnt and didnt touch him while he counter punched me to the point of embarrassment all the while yelling "hit me" every ten seconds. i guess thats what 136 professional fights the first of which was at age 13 will do for you!!!

I think we need to hear more about this guy...

 

[UrbanSavage**]

A no doubt somewhat dumbass supplementary question; what is this piece of equipment being used by the legendary Jack Johnson?

It's basically the same thing as what's now called a lat pull down, only there are two of them, they're not that big and he's using two seperate small handles instead of one long bar for lat pull downs. Having two seperate pulleys allows the person using it to perform a larger number of exercises with it. In the picture you posted, it looks like Johnson is using them to throw punches with weighted resistance.

Here's a picture of a similar set-up from the gym I go to.

 

[UrbanSavage**]

Thanks for that - I eventually found some details on the machines via Google. They seem like they'd be very useful; why so few (as far as I can tell) in modern gyms?

I really don't know, I'm fairly positive that the only reason there's one at the gym I go to is because it's been open for something like 37 years and most of what's in there is at least three decades old. It might have something to do with people preferring to use those machines specifically for the lat pull down with a single bar instead of two seperate handles. I enjoy using the one at my gym though, it does give you more options.

 

[zx]

"got a door you got a gym"

I don't see how is this better than BW exercises, or barebell ones.
But, OK whatever keeps you up for training.

 

[KILL KILL]

I beg to differ. It is not compareable to a lat pull machine because of the angle. The cables are at chest height. it is more like a cable cross.

He was probablt throwing punches with added resistance.

 

[UrbanSavage**]

Ok...they're the same thing but at different heights. That's basically the same thing I said. Who cares if you call it a cable cross or a lat pull down?

Also, I already posted a picture of something that looked almost exactly the same as the one in his picture, while you posted something that looks nothing like it. I also already said that he was probably using it to throw punches with weighted resistance.

 

[flak]

Ok...they're the same thing but at different heights. That's basically the same thing I said. Who cares if you call it a cable cross or a lat pull down?

Also, I already posted a picture of something that looked almost exactly the same as the one in his picture, while you posted something that looks nothing like it. I also already said that he was probably using it to throw punches with weighted resistance.

For what it's worth, I had a discussion with my dad once about strength-training stuff he'd seen and done as a young man, and he described those wall-mounted pulley systems. Said that was what the serious guys did, LOL.

 

[zx]

There is a footage of Aerts training with similar cable thing, weighted punches. Very similar to DB bench press because of fists rotation, if you ask me.

 

[KILL KILL]

Ok...they're the same thing but at different heights. That's basically the same thing I said. Who cares if you call it a cable cross or a lat pull down?

Also, I already posted a picture of something that looked almost exactly the same as the one in his picture, while you posted something that looks nothing like it. I also already said that he was probably using it to throw punches with weighted resistance.

you compared it to a machine that doesn't work the same muscles. The cable cross is pretty much the same as the picture posted. It's a cable pulley at about chest level. What do you not get about it?

 

[UrbanSavage**]

You're the one who isn't getting it. I'm not saying that the machine has to specifically be used for lat pulldowns, I was just comparing it to that machine. I don't care at all about the name of the machine, you're the only one who seems to give a fuck about the name.

Apparently you also don't realize that many lat pull down machines are chest height and can be used for a ton of different things other than lat pulldowns. You're not bringing anything new to the table. Just stop talking and let other people actually contribute to the thread, instead of detracting from it.

 

[KILL KILL]

You're the one who isn't getting it. I'm not saying that the machine has to specifically be used for lat pulldowns, I was just comparing it to that machine. I don't care at all about the name of the machine, you're the only one who seems to give a fuck about the name.

Apparently you also don't realize that many lat pull down machines are chest height and can be used for a ton of different things other than lat pulldowns. You're not bringing anything new to the table. Just stop talking and let other people actually contribute to the thread, instead of detracting from it.

I'll accept your apology

 

[Tosa]

If a lat pull down machine was chest height, you couldn't do lat pull downs with it, making it's name a misnomer/wrong. Unless, of course, you decreased chest height, perhaps by sitting on the floor or something.

 

[UrbanSavage**]

If a lat pull down machine was chest height, you couldn't do lat pull downs with it, making it's name a misnomer/wrong. Unless, of course, you decreased chest height, perhaps by sitting on the floor or something.

What? All you have to do is sit in a low seat. The lat pulldown I have isn't quite chest height while I'm standing but it's definetely not taller than I am and that's not that big of a difference. I've used it while sitting on my bench, the box I use to box squat, the floor and while in an ATG squat position (which is now my favorite way to do lat pulldowns).

Also, I know this isn't the point of this thread but it's already been derailed pretty hard anyway, does anyone use the lat pulldown or anything similar machine to do reverse rows while lying flat on a bench? I've done them with a barbell hanging in bands in a power rack using the band tension as resistance, but I think I prefer using the lat pulldown to do them. It works perfectly as an assistance exercise to build lat strength and stability for the bench press.