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Training for almost 2 years and can't do a Guillotine choke...

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by BIGGUYwLILGUYjj**, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. BIGGUYwLILGUYjj**

    BIGGUYwLILGUYjj** White Belt

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    Sup all? I'm trying to get some cool tips or simple advice u know, little things that could help me finish.

    Any help on what the hell am I doing wrong?

    It always seems as if i can't even get my arm around, like it's too short but in reality they're not. I'm about 250lbs and big arms. Maybe that makes it harder?

    It's such a basic move and I can't do it. I train 3-4 times a week and compete also. After almost 2 years i tbink its time i learn how to do it! Lol. Teach me how to do a guillotine...

    And please don't leave out any small detail. Nothing is too insignificant. Assume I know nothing.

    One small detail, that was never explained to me, can make all the difference.

    Thanks people.
     
  2. Peteyandjia

    Peteyandjia Thanks Mirko. Staff Member Forum Administrator

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    Start with a full guillotine, no arms in.

    Get a tight grip around their neck, close your guard completely, lift your hips into them, and lean back, don't crunch forward.

    If you do everything right you should be able to submit them without using much strength at all.
     
  3. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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  4. BIGGUYwLILGUYjj**

    BIGGUYwLILGUYjj** White Belt

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    Thanks. I guess I can just drill that? I mean, I can do it in practice...just not live.

    It always feels like I can't get my arm around their neck, almost like it feels so difficult to grab. I've got to be doing something stupid :/

    For example, from an up and over if I transition to it, it's like im all up on the top of their head at the same time real tight to my opponent.

    Any subtleties?

    Tips from Guillotine Masters?

    Lol
     
  5. BIGGUYwLILGUYjj**

    BIGGUYwLILGUYjj** White Belt

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  6. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    Are you doing gi/no gi? Its not uncommon for gi guys to be really bad at guillotines (me for example). I've been making it a point to take off the gi every once in a while to practice guillotines and also to make sure I can still execute a RNC.
     
  7. futang17

    futang17 Green Belt

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    i find when i'm doing guillotines with the gi on, it gets in my way and more often than not, i'm doing a trachea crush vs. a blood strangulation. however, i asked my instructor if i should focus on doing the guillotine the "correct" way, his answer was "as long as he taps, you did it correctly..."
     
  8. Connoisseur

    Connoisseur Purple Belt

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    Well, Neil Melansen at Xtreme Couture teaches the elbow lift variant with the securing arm posted perpendicular on the opponent's shoulder/ collar bone. Real brutal trachea crush.

    Most of the set- ups are from the front head lock position, but I can also pull it standing with a chin grab/ pull. If you're going to do it from your back, you really need to scoot your hips out and get an angle on them. If you can continually scoot your hips out and go for a kimura/ guillotine from your back, then you can grab wrist control, fake the kimura and then explode and wrap around their neck. If you can clear the arm, cool- if not, you'll need to finish with the arm in. Which is possible, but just something you need to drill and perfect, as the arm- in guillotine requires flawless precision & execution.
     
  9. BIGGUYwLILGUYjj**

    BIGGUYwLILGUYjj** White Belt

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    Awesome!

    Scoot my hips out huh? That makes sense. It shoukd give me the proper angl to get deep enough probably.

    This is great!
     
  10. BIGGUYwLILGUYjj**

    BIGGUYwLILGUYjj** White Belt

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    I've been training both. Have to. Yes it is considerably more difficult with the gi. Not like I've ever gotten it nogi, but it seems the gi def does add a degree of difficulty to the choke.

    I swear, if I get my purple belt and can't do a guillotine I might just quit. Lol.

    Now I know there are some moves that work bad for some people and amazing for others. Maybe this is my "bad move"? I'm good at brabo chokes and triangles at least.

    Should I take that "this choke just doesn't work for me attitude", or work on it bc it's a guillotine (not a Peruvian neck tie) and everyone should know a guillotine.
     
  11. StoicDude

    StoicDude Blue Belt

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    Marcelo's guillotine is by far the best one out there.
    It really sucks to be caught in it.

    Most of the time, I haven't been able to catch anyone in the guillotine (traditional one), but the Marcelo one is super effective. Drew Foster did a phenomenal write up on it.

    I've been showing everybody I know the Marcelo way, because I think it is such a great move.

    One thing about the Marcelo guillotine, and the most common problem with finishing it that I see from people that see it for the first time and try it is that they are not keeping the opponents head tight enough.
    You have to pin that head with your lat and the inside of your arm. You should be almost able to apply the sub with one hand.
    The other thing is how they finish after they throw that elbow on top.
    People seem to try to want to further thread their arm through, which makes the forearm, instead of the wrist be on the opponent's throat.
    You should just keep everything tight and then rotate your writs towards you, as if checking the time. This last hint is a big tip from John Kavanagh from SBGi Ireland.
    Kavanagh is a beast with guillotines (small guy though, about 160lbs) and mostly finishes them one handed, which is just insane in my opinion.
     
  12. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    Definitely do not chalk it up as "well maybe ____ isn't for me". You're a blue belt (so am I), its way too soon for us to give up on moves. I wanted to give up on the darce because I don't have long arms but I'm slowly improving (thanks to Drew Foster and of course my instructor). I wanted to give up on take downs because of my bad knees, but I started judo so I don't have to shoot for singles and doubles anymore. Good luck and keep going, not sure if you're noticing but I think guillotines are starting to get alot of attention again. Might as well be a part of the trend.
     
  13. DuppyMekka

    DuppyMekka Black Belt

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    no shame. i trained for 5 years and i cant maintain side control...:icon_chee
     
  14. StoicDude

    StoicDude Blue Belt

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    If anybody wants to check out Marcelo's site for a week, you can use my screenname as well, StoicDude, as the promotion code.

    I am not sure if you have to give a credit card number for a week trial and if you do, make sure you cancel within a week if you don't want to get billed.

    I think that it is well worth checking out. The following moves are permanently in my repertoire now: Guillotine, North South choke, Over Under halfguard pass.
     
  15. akqjt

    akqjt Orange Belt

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    So I had a $100 bet with my friend; the gist of it was that he had to survive 73 seconds against me (he's got about two months of training; I've got four years). Elbow-flare no-arm guillotine to the rescue!

     
  16. StoicDude

    StoicDude Blue Belt

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    I wasn't sure if this move would be putting people out, because it seems like it goes very hard on the trachea. I guess I got my question answered.
     
  17. Fedorzilla

    Fedorzilla Brown Belt

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  18. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Yeah apparently it hurts really bad but if you can stand the pain for about 5 seconds you get to fall asleep. I bet it starts hurting again when you wake up though! That guy was like "I was biting my tongue and trying to say something about it..."
     
  19. bloosteak

    bloosteak Blue Belt

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    awesome choking unconscious with marcelo guillotine video, didn't know it applied enough pressure to both carotid arteries to make someone go unconscious.
     
  20. Respeezy

    Respeezy Purple Belt

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    This is as much a tip as a question ,
    The guillotine is a pretty high % sub for me , what i do is not so much put the arm around the neck , i worry more about getting my hand under his chin first. Than connect my hands and from there one slowly squeezing ,slide the rest of my arm under his chin/ around his neck.
     

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