Opinion TR (1901-1909) vs. FDR (1933-1945)

[Deorum]

FDR lead us through the greatest crises of the century but also oversaw what might be the single most egregious infringement of civil liberties by the federal government in that same time frame in the form of Japanese internment as well as breaking the two term limit norm. So a great visionary leader but also tyrannical by presidential standards. Higher highs and lower lows than Teddy.

Alien Enemies Act of 1798. It's humorous to see people proudly associate the law with John Adams for extra emphasis as if it wasn't a huge stain on his regrettable one term presidency. The dude served as George Washington's VP for eight years and still didn't seem to know what the hell he was doing by the time it was his turn, nor did he have the mental composure to handle the duties. A premier founding father, rofl. It is what it is. Adams was terribly mediocre at best, and a borderline can as POTUS. Granted, he isn't ordinarily considered to be anywhere close to "achieving" the status or deserving of a place on Inverse Mount Rushmore.

Teddy via left hook.

 

[Deorum]

I’m not entirely sure how Teddy would have reacted as president if he and FDR were swapped. I would imagine we’d have entered the war way sooner and lost more American lives.

Similarly, in many ways it was better Wilson beat him when he did. Teddy as President during WWI sees us actively involved sooner and coming out worse than we did.

Teddy with nukes? How the hell would he handle that?

I wouldn't be even the slightest bit concerned. Teddy has a reputation for advocating jingoist imperialism, but he was a peace time President who was responsible for brokering the Portsmouth Treaty to end the Russo-Japanese war, organizing the Algeciras Conference that resolved tensions between Germany and France over Morocco, and even cleared disputes with Mexico by resorting to arbitration. His actual record is exemplary. The man just wasn't meant to deal with a major crisis in the timeline; it was his destiny and place to tackle the domestic issues of his day (the three c's) with a bombastic, joyous passion and firmly position America to become the global superpower that it did. Strong Men Create Good Times.

The Great White Fleet was the popular nickname for the group of United States Navy battleships that completed a journey around the globe from 16 December 1907 to 22 February 1909, by order of President Theodore Roosevelt. It consisted of 16 battleships divided into two squadrons, along with various small escorts, and earned its moniker for the stark white paint on its hulls. The fleet's primary mission was to make friendly courtesy visits to numerous countries while displaying new U.S. naval power to the world; Roosevelt sought to demonstrate growing American military prowess and blue-water naval capabilities. The voyage helped familiarize the 14,500 officers and sailors with the logistical and planning needs for extended fleet action far from home.

 

[Rob Battisti]

I wouldn't be even the slightest bit concerned. Teddy has a reputation for advocating jingoist imperialism, but he was a peace time President who was responsible for brokering the Portsmouth Treaty to end the Russo-Japanese war, organizing the Algeciras Conference that resolved tensions between Germany and France over Morocco, and even cleared disputes with Mexico by resorting to arbitration. His actual record is exemplary. The man just wasn't meant to deal with a major crisis in the timeline; it was his destiny and place to tackle the domestic issues of his day (the three c's) with a bombastic, joyous passion and firmly position America to become the global superpower that it did. Strong Men Create Good Times.

The Great White Fleet was the popular nickname for the group of United States Navy battleships that completed a journey around the globe from 16 December 1907 to 22 February 1909, by order of President Theodore Roosevelt. It consisted of 16 battleships divided into two squadrons, along with various small escorts, and earned its moniker for the stark white paint on its hulls. The fleet's primary mission was to make friendly courtesy visits to numerous countries while displaying new U.S. naval power to the world; Roosevelt sought to demonstrate growing American military prowess and blue-water naval capabilities. The voyage helped familiarize the 14,500 officers and sailors with the logistical and planning needs for extended fleet action far from home.

He was a wonderful peace time president. Inarguably the BEST peacetime president in our nations history.

I have doubts as to his ability to have restraint during a “world war” situation. As I mentioned, it was undoubtedly better for the USA that Wilson was president during WWI than TR. Wilson was hammered for his delayed involvement, but the USA came out nearly unscathed and in the sole #1 position of world power.

If TR was in WWII, I see him heavily involved BEFORE Pearl Harbor — the consequences of that are difficult to understand. I obviously adore the man, but I think he’s better for the USA in peace time than war time.

 

[heloder]

They're both phenomenal Presidents, but I'll take FDR simply because his circumstances were so much worse. His massive political capital from helping get us out of the Great Depression and World War II was spent primarily on genuinely helping the American people; not just for his term, but for the future as well.

You know, at least until some piece of shit comes along and tears down everything he accomplished and returns the US to the 1920s again.

 

[Deorum]

They're both phenomenal Presidents, but I'll take FDR simply because his circumstances were so much worse. His massive political capital from helping get us out of the Great Depression and World War II was spent primarily on genuinely helping the American people; not just for his term, but for the future as well.

You know, at least until some piece of shit comes along and tears down everything he accomplished and returns the US to the 1920s again.

Every single law passed that I mentioned under FDR's achievements is still relevant in the present-day United States, albeit at risk or under threat. And yet still more that I didn't even mention for the sake of brevity (like the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938). On another note it's always heartening to see the respect TR often gets from modern liberals, and there isn't much from the core of his presidential platform that the post-Reagan Revolution GOP is on board with anymore. He didn't go far enough for the left on labor rights or social benefits but what he did do in regards to trust-busting, consumer protections, and conservation of public lands was transformative (the latter outright unparalleled to this day) and he became ever more progressive by the time he formed the third-party Bull Moose platform for the 1912 election.

 

[Deorum]

It kind of goes without saying, but I think it's still worth mentioning that Teddy himself was a Harvard educated man of means born into a wealthy NYC family. The likelihood an individual such as that would uphold the Gilded Age status quo that absolutely dominated the US Government from 1865-1900 upon entering federal politics is almost overwhelming -- and yet once he got hold of the levers of power he was doing real shit in very dramatic and tangible ways for the public and greater good even when it undermined if not outright attacked his own socioeconomic class. It says a metric fuckton about his character and conscience.

 

[Deorum]

TR > FDR

FDR was big in the abuse of power department. He was also a bit wishy washy.

TR radically transformed so much of America is hard to even list it all.

It's almost mind-bending to consider that FDR actually vetoed no fewer than 635 bills. And I mean, I think that is a good thing. Granted, I haven't looked too deeply into what they entailed as I'm far more concerned with what is actually codified into US law, but yeah. A lot of people already hate him for so drastically expanding the size, scope, and power of the federal government. I get the sense that a bunch of those proposals from the Dem dominated Congress would've gone a hell of a lot further than what he ultimately signed off on.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

FDR, obviously. By far the GOATPOTUS. Even above Lincoln. Lincoln was a great wartime president, but we'll never know how good he would've been in peace. FDR had to deal with the greatest economic calamity the US has ever faced, and the biggest war in the history of the human race, and we came out of it as the world's #1 power. It's a shame that neoliberals in both parties have pissed all over his legacy since then and ruined everything that made this country great, but the "American century" wouldn't have happened without him.

100%

FDR vs Lincoln for the #1 spot is a better matchup.

Successfully steering the country through the Great Depression and then World War II immediately after is massive and likely won't ever be replicated. New Deal policies and agencies set the course for what a modern, developed nation should provide its citizens.

 

[Deorum]

I like TR more, but I would choose FDR in a poll.

I think there's an argument to be made, but certainly leans more heavily into subjective nuance. I straight up care more about conservation and public lands than labor rights and social safety nets, lol. The deck is stacked, though. Teddy was POTUS for less than a full eight years and wielded incredible skill to get things done, he never needed to break the law or violate the Constitution; FDR had a 12 year reign and was working with an unprecedented mandate, wielding a super-majority in both chambers of Congress for at least half of that time to achieve his agenda. I also don't know how anyone could not love TR.

Theodore Roosevelt: Family Life | Miller Center

millercenter.org

The nation had never known a family in the White House quite like the Roosevelts. The public loved to follow the adventures of the Roosevelt clan; the President understood that his family was a political asset and made it available, to some degree, to the media. When Roosevelt married Edith Carow in 1886, he already had a daughter, Alice, from his first marriage. He and Edith had five more children—Theodore, Kermit, Ethel, Archibald, and Quentin.

For TR, his family was like having his own private circus. His children were everywhere, having the complete run of the place. They took their favorite pony, Algonquin, into the White House elevator, frightened visiting officials with a four-foot King snake, and dropped water balloons on the heads of White House guards. The grand romp continued at the summer White House, Sagamore Hill, the family's home in Oyster Bay, New York.

There, the President led the children and anyone who happened to be visiting on hours-long obstacle hikes, picnics, and swims in the ocean. Roosevelt also loved to engage family, friends, and visitors in grand story-telling sessions about ghosts and the cowboys whom Roosevelt had known out West. He taught the boys to box and the girls to run. He never held back in his affections or in his praise for courage and aggressiveness. He almost drove his wife, Edith, to distraction with his antics, and she often told her best friends that the President was just an ornery little boy at heart.

 

[Whippy McGee]

Don't act like you care about national parks when you support Republicans. That's just stomping on TR legacy.

Can you actually post on the topic? That would be swell.

I'm not a big fan of FDR and moreso a fan of Teddy, but... if we are talking impact on America? It's FDR to me.

 

[Whippy McGee]

100%

FDR vs Lincoln for the #1 spot is a better matchup.

Successfully steering the country through the Great Depression and then World War II immediately after is massive and likely won't ever be replicated. New Deal policies and agencies set the course for what a modern, developed nation should provide its citizens.

^^^ Good competition, but I think they would be #2.

I always have maintained George Washington is #1.

 

[Deorum]

^^^ Good competition, but I think they would be #2.

I always have maintained George Washington is #1.

He is. There is no country without Washington, and being the first POTUS was merely the third most important title he ever held. Similarly, there is no country at least as we know it without Lincoln. It's objectively just not possible to surpass either IMO, and the question posed for the thread isn't about GOAT but merely between the two Roosevelts themselves or more broadly the greatest of the 20th century (perhaps even of the last 160 years, post-Lincoln), and I'd say they are indeed 1/2 there.

 

[Deorum]

If Washington established it, Jefferson expanded it, Lincoln preserved it, and Teddy conserved it then what is there to say about President Polk? The man was simply on fire, rapidly acquiring more priceless national treasures than you could shake a stick at in seeing Manifest Destiny through. Go Polk, Go!

 

[Whippy McGee]

If Washington established it, Jefferson expanded it, Lincoln preserved it, and Teddy conserved it then what is there to say about President Polk? The man was simply on fire, rapidly acquiring more priceless national treasures than you could shake a stick at in seeing Manifest Destiny through. Go Polk, Go!

Polk acquired all that? Dude is seriously underrated.

 

[Deorum]

Polk acquired all that? Dude is seriously underrated.

In one four-year term at that, he didn't seek re-election and died soon after leaving office.

Historian John C. Pinheiro:

"Polk accomplished nearly everything that he said he wanted to accomplish as President and everything he had promised in his party's platform: acquisition of the Oregon Territory, California, and the Territory of New Mexico; the positive settlement of the Texas border dispute; lower tariff rates; the establishment of a new federal depository system; and the strengthening of the executive office. He masterfully kept open lines of communication with Congress, established the Department of the Interior, built up an administrative press, and conducted himself as a representative of the whole people. Polk came into the presidency with a focused political agenda and a clear set of convictions. He left office the most successful President since George Washington in the accomplishment of his goals."

 

[Deorum]

 

[Possum Jenkins]

He is. There is no country without Washington, and being the first POTUS was merely the third most important title he ever held. Similarly, there is no country at least as we know it without Lincoln. It's objectively just not possible to surpass either IMO, and the question posed for the thread isn't about GOAT but merely between the two Roosevelts themselves or more broadly the greatest of the 20th century (perhaps even of the last 160 years, post-Lincoln), and I'd say they are indeed 1/2 there.

Don't mean to de-rail the thread but I think I've heard the argument that while Washington is supremely important to the history of the US, his performance as president was good but not great, at least not at the level of FDR, Lincoln, etc.

Never been a big presidential history guy though.

 

[BFoe]

FDR easily.

 

[Deorum]

Don't mean to de-rail the thread but I think I've heard the argument that while Washington is supremely important to the history of the US, his performance as president was good but not great, at least not at the level of FDR, Lincoln, etc.

Never been a big presidential history guy though.

Washington's presidency pales in comparison to his own achievements of being Commander of the Revolutionary Army that won independence and Chairman of the Constitutional Convention to formally establish the country itself, but it was still pretty damn great. He established the executive cabinet system, oversaw the creation of the federal judiciary and US Navy, signed the first federal copyright law recognizing the value of intellectual property, personally quelled a major tax revolt, issued the neutrality proclamation and negotiated the Jay Treaty. He held the entire new experiment together through stoic leadership with an extraordinary level of composure and compromise while setting numerous precedents and standards for the office. It looks all the more impressive given how quickly things started going off the rails into the presidency of John Adams, his successor who was ousted after one term. Thomas Jefferson was a course correction.

 

[Natural Order]

FDR easily.

Except in the ring.