Opinion TR (1901-1909) vs. FDR (1933-1945)

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I struggle with which Roosevelt I think is the GOAT.
Arguably his cousin FDR was a greater President. He shepherded the country through the Great Depression, started Social Security and navigated the US through WW2.

Great Idea! 💡Who Is Greater?

A showdown between distant cousins: the undisputed titans of 20th century American politics and arguably the two most effective presidents in the history of the United States, in large part because their domestic policy agendas were so crystallized. Theodore's Square Deal focused on the three c's of corporate regulation, consumer protection, and conservation of natural resources; Franklin's New Deal on the three r's of relief for the poor and unemployed, recovery of the economy, and reform of the financial system. The bulk of TR's accomplishments came by the unilateral executive force of a singular leader through a deft utilization of pre-existing federal statutes enacted by Congress, whereas FDR employed a 'brain trust' and took office with one of the biggest political mandates ever seen, governing with a super-majority in both chambers of Congress for the first six years of a presidency that saw him elected to unprecedented third and fourth terms. As much as TR relished the presidency, he voluntarily stepped down as incumbent and did not seek a third consecutive term.



TR Achievements

TR came power during an era of unstoppable economic growth but also one that saw egregious abuses by the robber barons who dominated the Gilded Age and the wanton destruction of pristine wilderness. He took action by launching dozens of anti-trust lawsuits against corporate monopolies and came out victorious in 22 rulings, including the dissolution of J.P. Morgan's Northern Securities Corporation and John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil. He pushed for and enacted the first significant consumer protection laws in US history with the Pure Food And Drugs Act and Federal Meat Inspection Act. Teddy goes down as nothing less than the greatest conservationist in human history, wielding undiluted power to preserve over 230 million acres of publicly owned wilderness as a gift to the people and all future generations. He established the National Wildlife Refuge System in his first term and US Forest Service in his second. In the realm of foreign policy he was responsible (and won the Nobel Peace Prize) for brokering the Treaty of Portsmouth to bring an end to the Russo-Japanese war, in addition to initiating and overseeing the construction of the Panama Canal which greatly enhanced both American geopolitical power and global commerce by uniting trade between the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans.

FDR Achievements

Taking office during the throes of the Great Depression, FDR had a surplus of unassailable political capital at his disposal that is otherwise unthinkable by contemporary standards with his Democratic party holding as much as 75% of federal voting power in both the House and Senate (something neither party has attained since). So what did they do with it? The Banking Act to separate commercial banking from investment banking and establish the FDIC; the Securities Exchange Act which created the SEC with the goals of regulating trading, facilitating financial transparency, and circumventing fraud; the National Housing Act to make homes more affordable, curb foreclosures, and stimulate private industry (this also created the FHA); the National Labor Relations Act which guaranteed the right of private-sector employees to organize into unions, collectively bargain, and engage in strikes; and the Social Security Act to establish federal benefits and safety net programs for the disabled, senior citizens, and unemployed. FDR also enacted the Agriculture Adjustment Act and National Industrial Recovery Act, but both were subsequently struck down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional. He is very famously known for leading America through World War 2 and initiating the Manhattan Project to successfully develop the world's first nuclear weapon.
 
FDR lead us through the greatest crises of the century but also oversaw what might be the single most egregious infringement of civil liberties by the federal government in that same time frame in the form of Japanese internment as well as breaking the two term limit norm. So a great visionary leader but also tyrannical by presidential standards. Higher highs and lower lows than Teddy
 
Before FDR, the ultra wealthy had a chokehold on nearly every aspect of working class life. There were no labor laws, no minimum wage, no safety nets. Children worked brutal shifts in dangerous conditions, and if you were injured on the job, you were discarded like scrap. Strikes were crushed by police or private thugs hired by the very people bleeding workers dry. The rich lived in unchecked luxury while the rest of the country scraped by, powerless and disposable. The government didn’t lift a finger, because it didn’t have to. It served the same class that owned the factories, the railroads, and the banks.

It took the Great Depression millions unemployed and starving for the system to even blink. FDR didn’t save capitalism out of kindness; he saved it because people were ready to tear it apart. The New Deal wasn’t a gift. it was a compromise to keep revolution off the table. Now decades later, workers cheer for billionaires again like they’ve forgotten the boots that used to be on their necks.
 
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Before FDR, the ultra wealthy had a chokehold on nearly every aspect of working class life. There were no labor laws, no minimum wage, no safety nets. Children worked brutal shifts in dangerous conditions, and if you were injured on the job, you were discarded like scrap. Strikes were crushed by police or private thugs hired by the very people bleeding workers dry. The rich lived in unchecked luxury while the rest of the country scraped by, powerless and disposable. The government didn’t lift a finger, because it didn’t have to. It served the same class that owned the factories, the railroads, and the banks.

It took the Great Depression millions unemployed and starving for the system to even blink. FDR didn’t save capitalism out of kindness; he saved it because people were ready to tear it apart. The New Deal wasn’t a gift. it was a compromise to keep revolution off the table. Now decades later, workers cheer for billionaires again like they’ve forgotten the boots that used to be on their necks.
But national parks
 
I’m not entirely sure how Teddy would have reacted as president if he and FDR were swapped. I would imagine we’d have entered the war way sooner and lost more American lives.

Similarly, in many ways it was better Wilson beat him when he did. Teddy as President during WWI sees us actively involved sooner and coming out worse than we did.

Teddy with nukes? How the hell would he handle that?
 
Oh man that really is a hard one.

First thing out of the way. Both dudes had that fight in them and I respect it. By hook or by crook they were getting the things they wanted to get done regardless of rules or whatever other thing might be in the way. This is a major issue I have with modern democrats and begrudgingly respect about Republicans. That's how the game is meant to be played.

I think for me it's fdr. He was Bernie before it was cool but he wasn't a huge pussy. He saw America through possibly the wildest ride ever and his vision of how the government should serve its people lines up just slightly better than teddy's with my own views. I don't think he was a socialist but ne understood very well that capitalism is predatory and left unchecked it would eat everything til there was nothing left to eat. I don't hold the internment camps against him. It's really hard to judge the past with modern views and I don't think it's possible for us to grasp how on the line the entire world must have felt during world War 2. This does not mean I am not aware of how blatantly un-American it is either its just that I know that lofty morals are out the window when it's succeed or perish. Any one who wants to argue that don't bother you're a lair and there isn't any rule you wouldn't break for your family to survive if that's what it came down to.
 
FDR, obviously. By far the GOATPOTUS. Even above Lincoln. Lincoln was a great wartime president, but we'll never know how good he would've been in peace. FDR had to deal with the greatest economic calamity the US has ever faced, and the biggest war in the history of the human race, and we came out of it as the world's #1 power. It's a shame that neoliberals in both parties have pissed all over his legacy since then and ruined everything that made this country great, but the "American century" wouldn't have happened without him.

EDIT: also, setting aside how critical he was for the US, without him, there's a good chance the US doesn't get involved in WW2 at all. And I'm not just talking about no boots on the ground, I'm talking no lend-lease either. We can quibble about how vital US military intervention was in beating the nazis, but no lend-lease means operation Barbarossa is probably a success, and the death toll of the Nazis is several orders if magnitude higher than it was in reality. I think the 3rd Reich would've eventually collapsed under the weight of partisan movements in occupied territories, but 10s, if not 100s of millions more would've died first. The 20th century likely would've played out very differently if it weren't for FDR
 
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I want to see more Teddy Roosevelts and less Franklin Roosevelts! - Mr Burns
 
FDR, obviously. By far the GOATPOTUS. Even above Lincoln. Lincoln was a great wartime president, but we'll never know how good he would've been in peace. FDR had to deal with the greatest economic calamity the US has ever faced, and the biggest war in the history of the human race, and we came out of it as the world's #1 power. It's a shame that neoliberals in both parties have pissed all over his legacy since then and ruined everything that made this country great, but the "American century" wouldn't have happened without him.
FDR was great, but he didn't top Abe. The Civil War was the greatest crisis in American history(and by a decent margin). There's no precedent for the level of work ethic, intelligence, wisdom, skill, and toughness it would take to lead the country through that, other than Abe himself. Could FDR have succeeded in Abe's shoes? Who knows? But we know that Abe did.

On topic, I gotta give the nod to FDR. He held the country together through consecutive crises, and brought the US from Depression to Superpower, stains on his legacy and all. Its competitive, but FDR just has the much stronger HL reel.
 
FDR was great, but he didn't top Abe. The Civil War was the greatest crisis in American history(and by a decent margin). There's no precedent for the level of work ethic, intelligence, wisdom, skill, and toughness it would take to lead the country through that, other than Abe himself. Could FDR have succeeded in Abe's shoes? Who knows? But we know that Abe did.

On topic, I gotta give the nod to FDR. He held the country together through consecutive crises, and brought the US from Depression to Superpower, stains on his legacy and all. Its competitive, but FDR just has the much stronger HL reel.
See my edit for another reason why I have to give the nod to FDR. Abe is a close second for me, but the fact that he never served during peace time makes me have to go with FDR
 
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