Economy Top Democrats push to pay off $50,000 student loans

[Siver!]

Its not just that.. You can make the argument that it forces poor people (those that didn't go to college on average make less) pay for rich people's degrees. Also it teaches people there isn't consequences.

To be fair, two of your responses have been interesting.

Yeah, it's a sticking plaster if the actual issue isn't fixed, that's a good point.
Yeah, it's forcing poor people to pay for wealthier people's degrees, that's a good point too, although poor people invariably watch their wealth redistributed to the top of the economy in so many ways anyway.

On the other hand, I don't like the "I didn't get this, why should they" argument, or the one about fiscal responsibility. It's not fiscally irresponsible to get a once-in-a-lifetime government hand out, and it's hardly going to convince people that they can just do whatever they want and never worry about anything, that's a stretch.

Fun stuff you two!

 

[blackheart]

Hmm
I actually like this. Is this an old adage?

I have loans too, but I'm not voting for Biden. Thr interest is killing me, tho.

It's a meme response to the trolley problem. The trolley problem has been around in ethics for a long time. It's a thought device for analyzing ethical questions from a variety of particular angles.

In its most basic form, the trolley problem is just posing the question of you have an incoming train, you have your hand on the lever to switch the train to one of two tracks. One track has 1 person on it, the other track has two people on it. Which track do you let the train go on to? It's just a basic litmus test to determine someone's ability to perform basic moral math. It's also turned into a meme of sorts.

"Is it fair to the people the trolley has already killed, to divert it now?" is one of the more memeable sarcastic "answers" to the trolley problem. It's been around for some years now.

 

[blackheart]

To be fair, two of your responses have been interesting.

Yeah, it's a sticking plaster if the actual issue isn't fixed, that's a good point.
Yeah, it's forcing poor people to pay for wealthier people's degrees, that's a good point too, although poor people invariably watch their wealth redistributed to the top of the economy in so many ways anyway.

On the other hand, I don't like the "I didn't get this, why should they" argument, or the one about fiscal responsibility. It's not fiscally irresponsible to get a once-in-a-lifetime government hand out, and it's hardly going to convince people that they can just do whatever they want and never worry about anything, that's a stretch.

Fun stuff you two!

Wealthy people don't carry student loan debt. Obviously. It's pure bad-faith concern trolling for the poors, to say the wealthy are who would benefit from this. Student loan debt cancellation obviously and overwhelmingly benefits lower and middle income people.

 

[Siver!]

Wealthy people don't carry student loan debt. Obviously. It's pure bad-faith concern trolling for the poors, to say the wealthy are who would benefit from this. Student loan debt cancellation obviously and overwhelmingly benefits lower and middle income people.

That's true, but it definitely transfers wealth to wealthier people.

Part of that is America taxing the lowest earners, which we don't do here in the UK.
Part of that is also that most lower or even middle class people will struggle to pay off a significant debt.

So there is some truth to that without it being a transfer of wealth to the rich. Just people who are already better off.

 

[terrapin]

Chuck Schumer and Elizabeth Warren reintroduced a resolution to forgive $50,000 student loan debt.

Here is a way to really divide the country pay off the debt from some of America’s top earners. Anyone that that paid of their student loans or did not take any out will be screwed over causing massive resentment.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/04/big...s-plan-to-forgive-50000-of-student-debt-.html

I have no interest in seeing people that have graduated college and are going to get the better jobs and the better pay having $50,000 removed from their debt. That's just a cash grab to give to the people who are already going to have more.

How about $50,000 towards every Blue collar person instead? I'll vote for that but I'm not voting for $50,000 in student loans forgiven for people that are going to get the better jobs no matter where they go. That's ridiculous and I just don't see the point in it.

Also, college is ridiculously expensive now. How about we stop allowing colleges to charge high prices for college and make them get back to something reasonable instead of paying off student debt?

Maybe I would make an exception for school teachers who I think deserve a raise, but other than that I'd rather see a welder the plumber a construction worker or a cashier get that money.

 

[terrapin]

In fact you can call them US bucks and make it so they have to buy stuff made in the USA with it so it all benefits America... whatever you got to do... but give it to the blue collar people.

I bought something off of a classified site in my city and I had to drive to the west side of town to get it and every house needed shingles. every car needed repairs tires were bald... I mean that's an exaggeration, but it looked destitute those people could use $50,000 way more than the people in my neighborhood who are already making $100,000 in a year in a city where $45,000 a year is the average.

 

[Super_Nintendo]

lower and middle class paying for people's masters degree in lesbian dance theory.

and if you want to fix the problem, actually address and fix why it's so expensive. wiping debt with printed money doesn't do anything. also, fuck this vote buying scheme.

Student Loan Debt Statistics [2024]: Average + Total Debt

Find student loan debt statistics, including the national debt balance, average individual balance, and annual growth rates.

educationdata.org

Student Loan Debt by Educational Attainment​

• Among those with an associate’s degree as their highest level of education, $19,270 is the average federal student loan debt.
• Bachelor’s degree holders have an average federal student loan debt is $26,190.
• The average graduate degree holder owes up to $106,850 in cumulative federal student loan debt.

 

[nostradumbass]

"If we divert the train now, its a spit in the face to the people that have already lost their lives to the train"

Yeah man, brilliant. Everyone should suffer from the shit system, because you suffered from the shit system.

Also


Politicians doing things that materially benefit their constituents, is how government is supposed to work. It's how government works in functional nations. It's hilarious that as a cucked American, you think that politicians delivering material benefits to their constituents, rather than private interest groups, is somehow a bad thing.

What "train" are you talking about, and how is it diverted by giving billions more dollars to Universities that have multi billion dollar untaxed hedge funds? It exacerbates the problem when you tell universities to charge whatever the hell they want and they'll just have taxpayers pick up the tab, you dolt.

Do you think rent would increase or decrease if landlords were told that it didn't matter what they charged, and they would just force taxpayers to pick up the tab anyway?

Here's $320 billion sitting untaxed in just 15 universities. Let's not tax those to get the money though, let's find some plumbers to shake down and force them to pay for the new sushi bar next to the rock climbing wall.

Loading…

www.usnews.com

You think stealing money from lower earners to pay off the financial obligations of higher earners for votes is how "government is supposed to work"?

 

[Super_Nintendo]

What "train" are you talking about, and how is it diverted by giving billions more dollars to Universities that have multi billion dollar untaxed hedge funds? It exacerbates the problem when you tell universities to charge whatever the hell they want and they'll just have taxpayers pick up the tab, you dolt.

Do you think rent would increase or decrease if landlords were told that it didn't matter what they charged, and they would just force taxpayers to pick up the tab anyway?

Here's $320 billion sitting untaxed in just 15 universities. Let's not tax those to get the money though, let's find some plumbers to shake down and force them to pay for the new sushi bar next to the rock climbing wall.

Nearly 10,000 more babies born in nine months under Texas’ restrictive abortion law, study finds

This is the first analysis of live births since the law, which banned abortions after about six weeks of pregnancy, went into effect in September 2021.

www.texastribune.org

You think stealing money from lower earners to pay off the financial obligations of higher earners for votes is how "government is supposed to work"?

 

[High Test With da Best]

Lots of folks would see this as a tacit admission that college attendanceisn't worth the cost.

"If attendance is worth the cost the higher incomes promised by achieving a degree would cover the loan."

"Huh, must not be worth it then."

 

[Nameless Ghoul]

Even though I could benefit from this new "forgiveness" by the government...because the insane interest that has piled up because of the rates they set.(which for any borrowers are confusing...let alone 18 year old kids). They just need to abolish Student Loan interest, 10 years in paying "income based" amounts faithfully, because of the compound interest rates I've barely made a scratch. This move is shit, and is the equivalent of someone drowning you, and acting like they "have your best interest in mind", by allowing you 60 seconds to breathe...before throwing you under again.

 

[blackheart]

What "train" are you talking about,

"I'm going to pretend to be stupid and not understand a kindergarten level analogy, so that I can go on this epic based rant and own this soy cucked lib!"

and how is it diverted by giving billions more dollars to Universities that have multi billion dollar untaxed hedge funds? It exacerbates the problem when you tell universities to charge whatever the hell they want and they'll just have taxpayers pick up the tab, you dolt.

Do you think rent would increase or decrease if landlords were told that it didn't matter what they charged, and they would just force taxpayers to pick up the tab anyway?

Here's $320 billion sitting untaxed in just 15 universities. Let's not tax those to get the money though, let's find some plumbers to shake down and force them to pay for the new sushi bar next to the rock climbing wall.

Loading…

www.usnews.com

You think stealing money from lower earners to pay off the financial obligations of higher earners for votes is how "government is supposed to work"?

"blah blah blah, I'm a stupid cuck that serves as an attack dog for the ruling elite"

 

[nostradumbass]

"I'm going to pretend to be stupid and not understand a kindergarten level analogy, so that I can go on this epic based rant and own this soy cucked lib!"

"blah blah blah, I'm a stupid cuck that serves as an attack dog for the ruling elite"

Well at least you're willing to admit that all you have to offer is "kindergarten level" arguments about trains. Maybe you can find another thread and use another super cool analogy about sandboxes and firetrucks in place of understanding how anything works.

Yeah, let's shake down those ruling elite plumbers and truck drivers so we can funnel more money to the lowly Harvard administrators who are scraping by with salaries that are barely even 7 figures.

 

[Rob Battisti]

"I'm going to pretend to be stupid and not understand a kindergarten level analogy, so that I can go on this epic based rant and own this soy cucked lib!"

"blah blah blah, I'm a stupid cuck that serves as an attack dog for the ruling elite"

if there was ever an example of getting so ridiculously owned to the point of having literally no rebuttal, it is this.

Go home and recognize you’re an idiot.

 

[blackheart]

Well at least you're willing to admit that all you have to offer is "kindergarten level" arguments about trains.

Bruh you just admitted you didn't understand a kindergarten level analogy lmaooo

"Well at least you're willing to admit that all you have to offer is kindergarten level arguments that I'm personally too stupid to understand!"

Not quite the own you think it is

Maybe you can find another thread and use another super cool analogy about sandboxes and firetrucks in place of understanding how anything works.

"blah blah blah, I'm a stupid cuck that's been brainwashed to serve as an attack dog for the ruling elite. I fucking HATE when regular working people get ANY kind of benefits. I fucking LOVE when billionaires and corporations get massive tax cuts and billions in free loans!"

Seriously, is there one SINGLE issue where you don't have the most dogshit anti-human, anti-life, anti-worker position possible?

Your politics seem to boil down to "I fucking hate everyone and I want the worst things possible for everyone"

 

[SummerStriker]

I already own exchange traded funds, and a house, so I don't care about student loan forgiveness. All the resulting inflation will show up in asset valuations so I'll benefit.

If you're some dumb, poor, working class populist. Haha. Fuck you. Enjoy your $14 eggs.

 

[blackheart]

if there was ever an example of getting so ridiculously owned to the point of having literally no rebuttal, it is this.

Go home and recognize you’re an idiot.

"blah blah blah. Im a stupid cuck that loves shilling crypto currency because I'm a stupid mark"

Yeah bro stfu. I write long detailed thoughtful responses on here day in and day out, and 99.9% of the time you 10 IQ right wingers respond with pictures or one-line insults. So I switch to doing the same thing and now I get
"if there was ever an example of getting so ridiculously owned to the point of having literally no rebuttal, it is this."

Responses to me writing long detailed posts: "haha look at my meme where you're the idiot"
Responses to me stooping down to your level: "haha wow look at this example of you getting owned to the point of having no rebuttal"

It doesn't matter what I do or how I respond. You low IQ morons are completely bad-faith mouth breathers that never have a shred of interest in actually engaging in argumentation and addressing the topic.

Now please, run off back to the crypto thread so you can scream into a bullhorn about what a gullible moron you are.

 

[White Whale]

Even though I could benefit from this new "forgiveness" by the government...because the insane interest that has piled up because of the rates they set.(which for any borrowers are confusing...let alone 18 year old kids). They just need to abolish Student Loan interest, 10 years in paying "income based" amounts faithfully, because of the compound interest rates I've barely made a scratch. This move is shit, and is the equivalent of someone drowning you, and acting like they "have your best interest in mind", by allowing you 60 seconds to breathe...before throwing you under again.

I agree with getting rid of the interest rates of student loans.

Many people have said this does not fix the issue of high tuition costs and more than half of graduates don't work in the fields that go their degree in.

 

[panamaican]

There's plenty of economic evidence that student loan debt is handcuffing the economy. That affects everyone. For example -- the college graduate with the better job needs to hire plumbers, electricians, etc. And he can't do that if all of his money is going to the debt. He can't afford to patronize restaurants, which pay waitstaff, or afford decent tips if he does go out. He can't buy a new car and the car salesman experiences that loss. The cost of that debt isn't experienced solely by the debt holder. That loss of discretionary income affects everyone in the economy.

Sure, maybe the student eventually pays off his debt in 30 years but that's 30 years where people who would have sold him services and goods miss out on that money circulating through the economy.

Additionally, it's inconsistent to talk about it as forgiving the debt of people who are already "better off". By that logic, we should get rid of IRAs and tax deferred savings plans too. Since they benefit people who already have enough money to fund those devices. Additionally, business expense deductions should be removed since we're taking the tax hit for the benefit of those lucky enough to run their own businesses.

These "principles" that people apply are rarely principles in truth, they're just justifications to keep things from happening. I can live with that...let's not pretend they're something more than that. People usually oppose paying off student loan debt for 1 of 2 reasons: 1) They didn't go to college and think it's unfair that something they didn't get to do is being paid off for other people; and 2) They went to college and paid off their own debt and think its unfair they're not getting the same benefit.

Both groups of people gladly take all of the other government savings offered to them. People with their own homes don't give a rat's ass about how unfair it is that they get a deduction that renters don't get. People with children take the tax breaks that come with that and don't give a shit about the people who don't have kids and are paying for it.

Let's stop the false moralizing for what are ultimately "I don't get to share in the benefit" arguments.

 

[Falsedawn]

I'm sure trades people and blue collar works who never could afford college are excited to contribute tax dollars towards this.

I love this moronic notion that people who "couldn't afford college" are subsidizing people who writ large make more than them by virtue of going to school and there's no reciprocity when it comes to shit like school taxes or consumption taxes lmao.

Should I throw a bitch fit because you decided to make 8 kids and I have to pay for their schools? Them driving 1500 miles a month to fix sinks puts more wear and tear on the road than my 30 minute daily commute, do I have the right to bitch about how they should be paying more infrastructure taxes than me? Or can we all agree that this is a stupid ass argument and never bring it up again?