Tito Ortiz - all time ranking

Love the Tito jokes.

He had a dominant run in UFC when the best guys were in PrideFC which makes it hard to rank him. His win over Wandy before Wandy went on a tear in Pride makes it interesting. That's his best win IMO and it's a big one, Wandy was 22-1-1 (1nc) in that stretch of time and Tito handed him the only loss.

His 1-7-1 run from UFC 66-148 really hurts his case. He was 31 when it started.

He had 5 title defenses but really not particularly strong competition

Yuki Kondo - Pancrase Champ, very experienced, arguably best defense

Evan Tanner future UFC MW Champ

Elvis Sinosec (was 1-5 in UFC as I recall)

Vladimir Matushenko - good fighter, aside from Vernon white he really only lost to great/fairly elite guys.

Ken Shamrock (Tito beat Ken 3x in a 1-7 stretch for Ken).


Also factor Titos record against the best LHWs in UFC in his era:

0-2 vs Chuck with a pulse, both tkos

0-1 vs Randy (though Randy clearly tapped)

1-0 split decision win over Vitor


I would rank him behind

Jon Jones
Wandy
Shogun
Chuck
DC
Rampage
Machida
Hendo*
Randy**

* Hendo has better wins at 205/overall Shogun x2, Wandy for PrideFC title, Vitor, Babalu
+ Fedor & Nog (HW) and Bisping (MW)

**Randy beat Tito head to head and had a better overall career imo, but a lot of that was HW, so I could see the argument on the other side.



Edit: not sure why I forgot Rampage.

I guess that leaves Tito at #9 10 for me.
 
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In terms of fighting ability, in the top 25-30 at LHW all time.

In terms of legacy and influence he has to be considered in the top 10, he was the man for a while albeit when nobody was watching the sport.

When Ken handed the baton to him as the most famous NHB fighter on the planet it was a pivotal moment in the sports development.
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And when he handed it to Chuck is when the sport headed to the mainstream.
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MuffinsAppletree said:
Tito training 5 times a week, 2 times a day is ranked #20

The Tito that trains 6 days a week, one time a day and 2 times a day for 3 days is ranked #15

tito bless
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In terms of ability, not that high, all he had was a power double, great Ground n Pound, but shit standup and no head movement, as someone stated, his biggest win was Wandy, it's also hard to rank LHWs after Jones and DC since Pride had some solid LHWs, I would put Chuck, Wandy, Rampage, Hendo and Shogun above Tito and probably Forrest above Tito as well, Tito was the original ppv king, his 2nd fight with Chuck was the first ppv to hit 1 million buys, there's no denying he helped grow the sport, his rivalries with Chuck, Randy and Forrest were very fun to watch
 
jeff7b9 said:
Love the Tito jokes.

He had a dominant run in UFC when the best guys were in PrideFC which makes it hard to rank him. His win over Wandy before Wandy went on a tear in Pride makes it interesting. That's his best win IMO and it's a big one, Wandy was 22-1-1 (1nc) in that stretch of time and Tito handed him the only loss.
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I'd say that Tito's run as the UFC champ was before Pride took over. Tito was universally considered the #1 LHW from 2001-2003. It was during the period of Chuck's reign as the UFC Champ that it became what most here considered to be a weak division and Pride to be totally dominant.
 
jeff7b9 said:
Love the Tito jokes.

He had a dominant run in UFC when the best guys were in PrideFC which makes it hard to rank him. His win over Wandy before Wandy went on a tear in Pride makes it interesting. That's his best win IMO and it's a big one, Wandy was 22-1-1 (1nc) in that stretch of time and Tito handed him the only loss.

His 1-7-1 run from UFC 66-148 really hurts his case. He was 31 when it started.

He had 5 title defenses but really not particularly strong competition (see PrideFC above)

Yuki Kondo - Pancrase Champ, very experienced, arguably best defense

Evan Tanner future UFC MW Champ

Elvis Sinosec (was 1-5 in UFC as I recall)

Vladimir Matushenko - good fighter, aside from Vernon white he really only lost to great/fairly elite guys.

Ken Shamrock (Tito beat Ken 3x in a 1-7 stretch for Ken).


Also factor Titos record against the best LHWs in UFC in his era:

0-2 vs Chuck with a pulse, both tkos

0-1 vs Randy (though Randy clearly tapped)


I would rank him behind

Jon Jones
Wandy
Shogun
Chuck
DC
Machida
Hendo*
Randy**

* Hendo has better wins at 205/overall Shogun x2, Wandy for PrideFC title, Vitor, Babalu
+ Fedor & Nog (HW) and Bisping (MW)

**Randy beat Tito head to head and had a better overall career imo, but a lot of that was HW, so I could see the argument on the other side.

I guess that leaves Tito at #9 for me.
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Wow a very correct and unbiased assessment of Tito's career and competition. I gotta admit it's weird reading a post from someone that actually knows what they're talking about.
 
jeff7b9 said:
Love the Tito jokes.

He had a dominant run in UFC when the best guys were in PrideFC which makes it hard to rank him. His win over Wandy before Wandy went on a tear in Pride makes it interesting. That's his best win IMO and it's a big one, Wandy was 22-1-1 (1nc) in that stretch of time and Tito handed him the only loss.

His 1-7-1 run from UFC 66-148 really hurts his case. He was 31 when it started.

He had 5 title defenses but really not particularly strong competition (see PrideFC above)

Yuki Kondo - Pancrase Champ, very experienced, arguably best defense

Evan Tanner future UFC MW Champ

Elvis Sinosec (was 1-5 in UFC as I recall)

Vladimir Matushenko - good fighter, aside from Vernon white he really only lost to great/fairly elite guys.

Ken Shamrock (Tito beat Ken 3x in a 1-7 stretch for Ken).


Also factor Titos record against the best LHWs in UFC in his era:

0-2 vs Chuck with a pulse, both tkos

0-1 vs Randy (though Randy clearly tapped)


I would rank him behind

Jon Jones
Wandy
Shogun
Chuck
DC
Machida
Hendo*
Randy**

* Hendo has better wins at 205/overall Shogun x2, Wandy for PrideFC title, Vitor, Babalu
+ Fedor & Nog (HW) and Bisping (MW)

**Randy beat Tito head to head and had a better overall career imo, but a lot of that was HW, so I could see the argument on the other side.

I guess that leaves Tito at #9 for me.
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I think there are several other guys that are better that aren't on your list (Arona, Lil Nog, Gus, Glover, etc.). His skillset was limited to GnP really.

IMO he is no higher than #15, maybe a good deal lower. He would not have beaten Wandy a couple years later, and Kondo, his best defense, was too small.

He was beaten by Frank Shammy who was much smaller, and I think he would have lost by submission to prime Saku.
 
Benji Snap said:
I'd say that Tito's run as the UFC champ was before Pride took over. Tito was universally considered the #1 LHW from 2001-2003. It was during the period of Chuck's reign as the UFC Champ that it became what most here considered to be a weak division and Pride to be totally dominant.
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Thats fair, but also I think debateable.

I agree that let's say 2003/2004 thru the end of Pride, Pride was no question "totally dominant" but I think MW Pride 2001-2003 is still a better division than UFC 200/205 in that same time. And regardless of which was better Tito, and everyone in the UFC, benefitted from not having to face those guys.

Titos era is called the "dark ages" of the UFC.

It was a time that was so different to today's MMA scene that it isn't an apples to apples comparison. A primary element to that being that it was before Zuffa era UFC made exclusive contracts the prevailing way of doing things, so guys in that time were hopping all over the place which lead to weird occurances like UFC champions losing outside the UFC and then coming back and defending their UFC title coming off a loss or 2. Off the top of my head I know Militech and Randy both had losses outside the UFC while remaining UFC Champs.

This made ALL the organizations weaker to an extent because talent was spread all over the place, but I think it is also pertinent information that champions were often defending their titles against guys well outside the top 5 in the world. (Compare this to the last ten years or so and that is unheard of)

I believe Tito was ranked #1 in the 2001-2003 but I think you have to acknowledge that a big part of that (as I alluded above) is how well his win over Wandy aged, as Wandy went on a tear thru Pride.

And another big part of that is that Tito didn't have to face guys like:

Ricardo Arona
Rampage
Little Nog
Kevin Randleman
Overeem
Bustamante
Sakuraba
Nakamura
Ninja Rua

Now sure, Tito might have beaten some of those guys at that time, maybe, but I don't think he goes thru a gauntlet like that unscathed or accumulates the 5 title defenses which was his claim to fame as a big name in MMA.



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Lee_ said:
I think there are several other guys that are better that aren't on your list (Arona, Lil Nog, Gus, Glover, etc.). His skillset was limited to GnP really.

IMO he is no higher than #15, maybe a good deal lower. He would not have beaten Wandy a couple years later, and Kondo, his best defense, was too small.

He was beaten by Frank Shammy who was much smaller, and I think he would have lost by submission to prime Saku.
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I am trying to be as fair as possible. While I can see an argument that Tito may have lost to those guys I do not feel like they have the achievements to warrant ranking them that high.

I went with guys that held/defended a premier title and had high value wins on their resume. Arona has a great strength of schedule and some big wins, but no title. His win over Wandy, probably his biggest w, was a non title fight in a tournament. when they fought again for the belt Wandy won.
(Also Tito beat Wandy in a title fight)

But it is subjective, if you feel like Arona belongs higher I could understand how you might feel that way. Not sure if I would agree for Lil nog or Gus but if you wanted to state your case I would listen.
 
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Tito is one of the very top names in terms of who was instrumental in making MMA a legit sport. As someone who trained as a kid with my dad who was friends with people who ended up putting the UFC together I’ve always obviously been a fan since day one and 2 of the first 4 events live….but no one else knew wtf I was talking about until Tito became a star and then it was all dominoes from there and here we are today.


Career wise he’s in the 10-15 range.
 
jeff7b9 said:
Titos era is called the "dark ages" of the UFC.

It was a time that was so different to today's MMA scene that it isn't an apples to apples comparison. A primary element to that being that it was before Zuffa era UFC made exclusive contracts the prevailing way of doing things, so guys in that time were hopping all over the place which lead to weird occurances like UFC champions losing outside the UFC and then coming back and defending their UFC title coming off a loss or 2. Off the top of my head I know Militech and Randy both had losses outside the UFC while remaining UFC Champs.
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Yeah, I agree that this is what makes rankings and comparing fights from this period to others weird. It's like we have to use more historical perspective of what a fighter did after they fought to determine how good the win really was. Like Tito beating Elvis Sinosic the way he did at the time was a great win because Elvis had just had a 1st round sub victory over Jeremy Horn after taking Frank Shamrock to a decision, and I remember thinking at the time (after Tito beat Elvis) that Tito looked invincible & unstoppable and I genuinely wondered if anyone would ever be able to beat him again <45><45>
 
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