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Tired of End of Class Warriors. Need Training advice.

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Anarkis, Jul 19, 2005.

  1. Anarkis

    Anarkis Guest

    Today was a bad day at Jiu Jitsu. The first bad day we had in a long time. It was about 110 degree outside so the Gym was hot as shit when we got there. Now I make sure I am on time to do the whole workout. We workout 3 times a week in grappling and I love it. I never turn anyone down to roll and I normall do well. Our Class is broken down like this.

    Warm Up (10-20 Mins Cardio) (5-10 Min Stretching)
    Then Technique for 30 Mins learning new stuff (These are done with full resistance)
    10-25 More Minutes of Cardio and body exercises (the shut off the AC for this part)
    Then 5 Mins rolling sessions for 30-50 Mins.

    Okay now i do all of the above. Well we have a lot of people who slack through the exercises then show up at the last minute. I call them end of class Warriors because thats when they show up. They are usually Blue Belts who have trained at the gym for atleast a year and this is all they do.

    Then 5 Mins rolling sessions for 30 Mins.

    Today I was dead tired when it came to rolling. I go out and let someone come to me. Now the guy who comes forward has done none of the above. I am exausted but a good sport. We usually go about 60% and this guy is going full blast. I am not a big guy I only way about 150 and this guy totally blast me. He wasn't sweating because he was completely fresh and I absolutely got destroyed 3 times in a row. I then did something I have never done. I told him I am too tired to roll and and sat to the side. I then rolled with someone else who had been at the class and we discussed ahead of time technique over power and then had what I consider to be a good rolling session. Where we had time to learn shit and it was more evenly matched because both of us had been there the whole class.

    Now I am pissed. Not only at myself for getting tapped three times but also because this is the first time I stopped rolling ever and the first time I didn't have fun. I am mad. A little at the guys who show up late on purpose and then slack ass through exercises so they have fully strength. But mostly at myself for calling it quits early. First I want advice from people who have advice on building strength and endurance. I have all of Bas guides but I am not sure if the MMA workout would be best or if someone has something better. I have banged up knees so I can't run or I won't be able to roll at all. But I can do body exercises as long as there not jerky.

    I also told myself in the future I won't roll with people who don't come the whole class session. Its not an accident these guys consistently do it and slack ass through class then blast through sparring. Should I just tough it out to get stronger because right now as far as rolling goes. IF I had a session like I did with the first person I rolled with I won't be learning anything other then how to be outmuscled.

    I guess after my rant I am asking for tips for BJJ classes and conditioning I can do on my own. I would prefer if people who actually train respond and appreciate your time and words. Sorry if I am being a bitch in this rant its frustartion.


    Currently Classes are three times a week and for 2 Hours including after class asking questions. I do weight training once a week(Pull one week Push the Next week) to not overwork myself but after almost 2 full months of Jiu Jitsu classes I think I am ready to turn my training up a notch.
     
  2. Kilo

    Kilo Orange Belt

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    I think most of us have experienced this in some form over the years. Some guys slack to have more gas when it comes to rolling at the end because they have egg shell egos and they don't want to be submitted. What happened to you is pretty rough since they pretty much didn't do anything.

    With that being said as long you can avoid getting injured you will be the one to benifit. You will learn to find ways to fight when you are tired such as relaxing more, resting while fighting- then exploding with a move, and gutting through the misery. All of these things will help you with competition, life, and conditioning while they gain very little by going with a spent fighter.

    My suggestion is that you don't focus on what their doing but concentrate on overcoming this adversity that you know is going to come at you every training day. You need to up your conditioning like a mother. Tons of conditioning on your offtime. I like burpees, bodyweight squats, hill work/bleacher work, sprints, flutter kicks, and divebomber pushups. I rest very little when working out for juijitsu. Cut any bad weight you have on you so you will be more mobile on the mat. You also need to bring it to the level they are coming at you. If you are supposed to go 60 and they are going 100, guess what, quit bitching and turn up the heat on them.

    As far as you walking off the mat, that can probably be expected as long as it is just your fitness level. If you walk off the mat because of heart that is a differant story. Just keep pushing yourself a few more minutes when you can't take anymore and it will come. It might also help to get a training partner through the week with a big motor to randori the hell out of you.

    The bottom line is there will always be dickheads- its how you respond to them that matters.
     
  3. Anarkis

    Anarkis Guest

    Thanks for vote of confidence and wise words. I was curious how long does your average conditioning session last? I know all the exercises that you have there I am just curious how long you do them for on average.
     
  4. wamrage

    wamrage Guest

    I had the same bullshit when I started Judo....we'd always practice throws and holds and then after being extremely tired to the point I was going to puke I'd always get paired up with this fatass who had 70lbs on me who slacked the entire class. Luckily I've done BJJ so I could still school him on the back but he was a tough mother fucker to deal with.

    I honestly think it's a good call to avoid those guys because if they just want to save up their strength because they're afraid of getting tapped, they aren't there to learn.
     
  5. Kilo

    Kilo Orange Belt

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    I really don't like to spend more then an hour on conditioning sessions. Its more what you put in then the time.

    I do a ton of bodyweight exercises and mix in a few sets of explosive weight training core exercises like power cleans, military presses and bent rows. I try to vary the order I do stuff and add something new every few weeks. I will do hills or bleachers right after or do a long sets of hills, bleachers and sprints on a seperate day even.

    Just make it interesting and cut down on rest periods between exercises when conditioning. You can have days where you go longer, take breaks, and work more on power but for conditioning I like to get in, get at it and get home. I like to feel kind of quesy when I get done and I use the theory that everything works but nothing works for long. I constantly change up my workouts.

    Another thing- if you can be a little obsessive, after these long grappling days, go home recover, gets some water- and then go for a workout. Just a little bit after a hard grappling session will really improve your game. I have used this to get ahead for a long time. When everyone is done for the day- put in a little extra.
     
  6. Anarkis

    Anarkis Guest

    Sounds like very good advice Kilo. Thanks for making this your 3 and 4th post. I appreciate the advice and already have some good plans in works. Thanks again.
     
  7. Brad Morris

    Brad Morris Green Belt Professional Fighter

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    Provided you aren't getting hurt then roll with these guys, it is too your benifit that you are doing the full class and then rolling. And its rather rewarding tapping guys like that when you are exhuasted.

    Try and see them as a challenge rather than an annoyance, if you can't tap them yet then make it a goal not to be tapped (I don't mean be silly and not tap if something is on).
     
  8. cosism

    cosism Custom User Title

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    I was going to post this as well. Pushing YOURSELF past your limits makes yYOU the better fighter. Reguardess is he is fresh or not, try to tap him, but be a good sport if you win or lose. As long as you are learning, you ar ethe one getting something out of class.
     
  9. Timbaland

    Timbaland Black Belt

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    If you get tired at the end of class, I kind of feel like your cardio isn't up to par or you may need to change your diet bro. Even though I'm tired, I'll still roll with fresh people as I feel you can still learn something and it will make your cardio that much better.
     
  10. Anarkis

    Anarkis Guest

    I don't half ass things in class. I am not talking about getting beat a little I am talking about getting steamrolled due to fatigue. I don't have problems rolling with other people who work there asses off for the whole class. My diet is fine. Most of these guys are the same type of dudes. Generally they have 30-70 pounds on me and Blue belts. Usually I hang with them by letting them work and then submitting them but when I am too tired its hard to do. Its conditioning not diet. I normally more then anyone at the end of a class session. Its just this 5-10% that is giving me issues.
     
  11. muerteverde

    muerteverde Black Belt

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    Yeah, sounds like they have a poor attitude. Either they should show up to the whole class or not go all out and use their freshness to get an unfair advantage. That being said, this can work to your advantage if you build your stamina up just a bit more. You will be going against fresh guys and be forced to work when you are tired. Sure you will lose more, but it would be excellent for your conditioning and your technique. This is the sort of effect that is sought when doing round robin type workouts with a single guy in for a long time. Those he faces have time to recover and be fresh when they met him each time but he, int he middle, is constntly going going going. We did some of this at judo last night and it is incredibly tiring.

    Our judo team does between 30 minutes and 1 hour of conditioning in the beginning. This will involve some drills, some running, some stretching, some body weight excersizes, and some falling. That sort of stuff. Then it is either learning new techniques for an hour or repeated drilling of ones we know (how many we can do in a minute, then in another minute, then another minute) or some sort of movement or positioning drill, maybe with some entering into techinques. If we do randori it is always the last 15 to 45 minutes. I would prefer that we do more randori, as often we don't do any and when we do it is rarely for longer than 30 minutes. That is about the structure of our practice. A few guys come in part way into the conditioning and one girl sometimes comes in when the second hour starts but she doesn't slack and she has a good excuse.
     
  12. One Time

    One Time You bang brah?!

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    No need to worry about this stuff....the guy who's rolling with you knows he' fresh and you are tired and I would venture to guess that about 80% of the class knows the same thing.
     
  13. gooth4

    gooth4 Purple Belt

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    i woudlnt worry about the ones slackin, their cardio is going to suck and when it comes down to both of ya bein 100% youll have the advantage from training harder.
    train the way you would fight, that way your ready when the time comes, dont worry about others, im sure their not worried about you
     
  14. stryker505

    stryker505 Blue Belt

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    We have a guy at work who is a total spazz when it comes to CQC/BJJ. This guy freakin' hurts people. It is getting bad. Today me and my buddy watched this guy to see if he was up to his old shit and he was. He almost broke an instructor's elbow joint/capsule. No amount of warnings and advice works with this guy. I think he is scared or something. Eventually I am going to have to kick the crap out of him. Has anyone else had a similar problem?
     
  15. Richard Emling

    Richard Emling Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    if they cant leave it on the matt staart to finsh fuckum
     
  16. Colby18***

    Colby18*** Orange Belt

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    I say this greatly benefits you. Don't let your ego get in the way just because your getting steamrolled by the guys. You have to remeber your completley drained and there as fresh as can be, just imagine how bad you'll beat these guys when your fresh. If you want just for a boost of confidence ask them to roll outside of class or just to practice or something when your both fresh and see how well you dominate these guys. Your conditioning is going to be better and your going to know how to handle yourself at the moments when you have nothing left.

    At our club we try to recreate this by doing round robins. We'll have 6 guys, one guy in the ring whos in there for 6 minutes straight. After each minute a fresh guy will come in full blast at the guy whos already been in there (usually we do this just for takedowns n standup tho), and let me tell you the very last minute is the worse for teh guy whos been in there non stop.

    Use these guys as a training tool rather than see it as them being a bunch of assholes and not training with them. If you can roll being exhausted then your gonna kill people when your fresh just have to remeber that.
     

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