Law Tik Tok showdown fast track schedule

[Limeade]

You may have heard Congress passed a divest-or-ban requirement for TikTok as part of the recent package of bills in last round of foreign aid funding. ByteDance (Tik Tok's parent company) has until Jan 19 to sell TikTok or face a total ban from app stores such as Apple, Google, etc in the United States of America.

The Department of Justice joined by ByteDance as well as TikTok itself and various content creators, asked for and received an fast track schedule for litigation.

• TikTok and ByteDance must file legal briefs by June 20 and the Justice Department by July 26, with reply briefs due by Aug. 15.
• TikTok and the Justice Department have sought a ruling by Dec. 6 in order to seek review from the Supreme Court if needed.
• Link

TikTok's challenges the ban on constitutional grounds. For example, it infringes on its 1st amendment rights and must be reviewed under the judicial standard of strict scrutiny. In this regard, the Government cannot show it has meet its burden of showing a compelling state interest and narrow tailoring of the restriction. TikTok has won with this argument in the past in other jurisdictions such as the overturned ban in Montana. It argues that if the law is upheld, it would allow the government to decide that a company may no longer own and publish the innovative and unique speech platform it created. Legal brief

I haven't read the Government's legal brief. I suspect it is arguing it does have a compelling state interest from national security and that it is well within the constitutional bounds. I'm sure it will cite the Telecommunications Act Section 310 of the Communications Act which limits foreign investment in broadcast communications. Has anyone here read it and gave it much though?


I will get back to this when we have more time, but I don't see how the Government's argument can stand up to judicial review. It's so broadly written and targets a specific company. But I've been wrong before about how the courts will rule. Let's check again on this when the summer legal briefs coming in around the end of July.

 

[Hog-train]

Legal experts say TikTok has about a 30% chance to win.​

"A law that just prohibited TiKTok outright would be much more vulnerable to a First Amendment challenge than a requirement that ByteDance sell TikTok," Shanor said. "The question otherwise becomes a little more like: Does TikTok have a First Amendment interest in keeping its parent company? To me, that's a much weaker contention."​

Additionally, the 1st Amendment is not absolute and has never been. You can't incite violence, you can't give misinformation such as saying "this is medicine" when it's actually poison, you can't defame someone, etc. There are countless examples. If something is a national security interest and safety, that would trump the 1st Amendment in most cases. Especially if it's not an actual total ban on speech, but just forcing a foreign power to sell a company to operate in the country.

TikTok sues to block potential ban. Can it win?​

Spoiler

TikTok sues to block potential ban. Can it win?​

The social platform has a viable case but faces challenges, experts said.
ByMax Zahn
May 9, 2024, 8:14 AM

ByteDance, the parent company of TikTok, struck the latest blow in a high-stakes clash between the social media company and the U.S. government, filing a lawsuit this week challenging a forced sale of TikTok as unconstitutional.
The case could nullify the measure enacted last month that requires ByteDance to sell the platform or suffer a ban of TikTok. The move raises a question for roughly 170 million TikTok users and others interested in the outcome: Can TikTok win in the courts?
Legal experts who spoke with ABC News said TikTok has a viable case on First Amendment grounds, saying the ruling will come down to how judges weigh free speech protections against national security concerns tied to Chinese ownership of the app.
In the end, federal courts will likely side in favor of the forced sale since they have shown themselves to be deferential to the government when it invokes national security interests, some experts predicted.



"This case is not a slam dunk in either direction," Alan Rozenshtein, a law professor at the University of Minnesota who focuses on the First Amendment, told ABC News. "There's a chance TikTok could win -- it's more likely the courts, including the Supreme Court, will uphold the law."

TikTok did not immediately respond to ABC News' request for comment.
In its lawsuit, ByteDance criticizes the measure enacted by the U.S. as an "unprecedented step" aimed at singling out and banning TikTok.
"For the first time in history, Congress has enacted a law that subjects a single, named speech platform to a permanent, nationwide ban, and bars every American from participating in a unique online community with more than 1 billion people worldwide," the lawsuit says.
The main argument brought by ByteDance centers on the government's alleged infringement of the free speech rights of TikTok users and the company. The measure unlawfully invokes national security fears as a means of shutting down TikTok, leaving open the possibility of the government doing the same to any newspaper or website, the lawsuit argues.
"There are clearly First Amendment questions here," Timothy Zick, a professor of constitutional law at William and Mary Law School, told ABC News. "It's a viable claim."

In support of its First Amendment challenge, ByteDance says in its lawsuit that the measure amounts to an outright ban, since the company will not be able to sell TikTok within the allotted nine-month period due to technical issues and commercial impediments.

Chief executive officer of TikTok Shou Zi Chew testifies before a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing o...Show more
Celal Gunes/Anadolu via Getty Images
The question of whether the measure equates to ban of TikTok could end up being a key pivot point for the case, Amanda Shanor, a professor of First Amendment law at the University of Pennsylvania, told ABC News.

"A law that just prohibited TiKTok outright would be much more vulnerable to a First Amendment challenge than a requirement that ByteDance sell TikTok," Shanor said. "The question otherwise becomes a little more like: Does TikTok have a First Amendment interest in keeping its parent company? To me, that's a much weaker contention."
The Department of Justice has yet to respond but is likely to argue that national security concerns should be prioritized over First Amendment protections, the experts said. The bipartisan passage of the law in the House and Senate on national security grounds will help bolster the government's argument, some experts added.
The social media platform has faced growing scrutiny from some government officials over fears that user data could fall into the possession of the Chinese government and the app could be weaponized by China to spread misinformation.

​

There is little evidence that TikTok has shared U.S. user data with the Chinese government or that the Chinese government has asked the app to do so, cybersecurity experts previously told ABC News. In its lawsuit, ByteDance blasts the national security fears as "speculative."
Rozenshtein, of the University of Minnesota, said the U.S. government may not provide direct evidence of Chinese tampering with TikTok. However, the government will likely argue that it holds substantial evidence for the "component parts" of its claim.
"We know China has engaged in widespread hacking," Rozenshtein said. "We know China is willing to act in an extremely heavy-handed way to control its private corporations."
Ultimately, some experts said, the courts will likely defer to the government's assessment of national security risks and rule in favor of the law.
"The courts don't want to substitute their own judgment for Congress' or the president's," Rozenshtein said.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

this desperation to have it down quickly makes me believe the numbers don't look good on tiktok for the powers that be, plus it's where there's a lot of palestinian clips going around, which annoys the donors. so no, it's not about china.

 

[Hog-train]

this desperation to have it down quickly makes me believe the numbers don't look good on tiktok for the powers that be, plus it's where there's a lot of palestinian clips going around, which annoys the donors. so no, it's not about china.

While the Palestinian thing is a factor, it is definitely not THE factor. It's mainly against China.

1. They were trying to ban Tiktok WAY before this Israel conflict started.
2. The US did the same shit with Grindr, the gay hookup app, which was owned by China.
3. The majority of pro- Palestine content, by the numbers, is still on Youtube and podcasts.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

While the Palestinian thing is a factor, it is definitely not THE factor. It's mainly against China.

1. They were trying to ban Tiktok WAY before this Israel conflict started.
2. The US did the same shit with Grindr, the gay hookup app, which was owned by China.
3. The majority of pro- Palestine content, by the numbers, is still on Youtube and podcasts.

1. they weren't really trying, not it's accelerated for some reason.
2. i don't know about it but i think it's originally a us company.
3. yeah, but tiktok is for the youth, youtube is for old farts. tiktok is from where most of the young users even get an understanding of the world. that and twitch.

 

[Poon Goon]

youtube is for old farts

I think youtube is cool. I find it entertaining and informational. The other day my washing machine was making a bunch of noise so I found a video on how to fix that specific problem on my specific machine. Guy in the video said it was an "easy fix" and went through the process step by step.

After about five minutes I saw that he was going to take every single fucking thing on the washer apart. I skipped through the video and realized there's no way I'd be able to do all of it and then put it all back together. I got a new washer instead, but that video still saved me about $150 in parts, a few hours of my life, and the frustration of fucking the repair job up.

 

[Hog-train]

1. they weren't really trying, not it's accelerated for some reason.
2. i don't know about it but i think it's originally a us company.
3. yeah, but tiktok is for the youth, youtube is for old farts. tiktok is from where most of the young users even get an understanding of the world. that and twitch.

2. The Chinese were forced to sell Grindr due to security concerns.

Grindr has been sold by its Chinese owner after the US expressed security concerns

The owner had a June 2020 deadline to sell Grindr.

www.theverge.com

3. 93% of teens still love Youtube. Youtube remains, BY FAR, the most used social media platform among the youth and also ALL age groups.

Pew survey: YouTube tops teens' social-media diet, with roughly a sixth using it almost constantly

Teen usage of social media hasn’t dropped much, despite rising concerns about its effects on the mental health of adolescents.

apnews.com

 

[Fox by the Sea]

I think youtube is cool. I find it entertaining and informational. The other day my washing machine was making a bunch of noise so I found a video on how to fix that specific problem on my specific machine. Guy in the video said it was an "easy fix" and went through the process step by step.

After about five minutes I saw that he was going to take every single fucking thing on the washer apart. I skipped through the video and realized there's no way I'd be able to do all of it and then put it all back together. I got a new washer instead, but that video still saved me about $150 in parts, a few hours of my life, and the frustration of fucking the repair job up.

Sounds like you needed a video about "accepting life and thriving with a noisy washing machine ". that's on instagram though.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

2. The Chinese were forced to sell Grindr due to security concerns.

Grindr has been sold by its Chinese owner after the US expressed security concerns

The owner had a June 2020 deadline to sell Grindr.

www.theverge.com

3. 93% of teens still love Youtube. Youtube remains, BY FAR, the most used social media platform among the youth and also ALL age groups.

Pew survey: YouTube tops teens' social-media diet, with roughly a sixth using it almost constantly

Teen usage of social media hasn’t dropped much, despite rising concerns about its effects on the mental health of adolescents.

apnews.com

yeah they use it for music, not for fast-twich social commentary, which tiktok is.

 

[HereticBD]

yeah they use it for music, not for fast-twich social commentary, which tiktok is.

They use it for everything. That's like saying they only use Tik Tok to watch dance videos.

 

[BIKES!]

This ties into the other thread. Biden’s reich hates Tik Tok because they don’t censor like their MSM. Real clips of Biden and the lot can’t be swept under the rug.

 

[jefferz]

This ties into the other thread. Biden’s reich hates Tik Tok because they don’t censor like their MSM. Real clips of Biden and the lot can’t be swept under the rug.

H.R.7521

 

[PBAC]

this desperation to have it down quickly makes me believe the numbers don't look good on tiktok for the powers that be, plus it's where there's a lot of palestinian clips going around, which annoys the donors. so no, it's not about china.

the algorithm blatantly pushes extremist antiwestern videos. I stopped bothering trying to defend them when this video popped up praising Pol Pot only to be immediately followed by one of Hussein with heroic music in the background and captions like ''true leadership.'' Only to be immediately followed with a video referencing something I had done 10 mins ago in the real world.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

the algorithm blatantly pushes extremist antiwestern videos. I stopped bothering trying to defend them when this video popped up praising Pol Pot only to be immediately followed by one of Hussein with heroic music in the background and captions like ''true leadership.'' Only to be immediately followed with a video referencing something I had done 10 mins ago in the real world.

isn't the algo built around showing you more of what you already watch?

 

[PBAC]

isn't the algo built around showing you more of what you already watch?

I've brought this up many times. It is forcing particular points of view and you end up watching one and engaging. It then starts forcing more of the same content at you. Basically it's like sitting through commercials and the people running the campaigns think you actually enjoy watching them. The algorhythm will show you what you want to a certain degree and then 1/10 will be some weird out of context dystopian campaign. They also heavily control the comments and make sure 99/100 are anti western. Having actually used the Tiannemen Square hashtag I have definitely noticed my reach being decreased too. They also keep showing me content from people I know in real life but aren't in my contacts and I have not synced my accounts. So yes, TikTok does access the wifi.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

They also keep showing me content from people I know in real life but aren't in my contacts and I have not synced my accounts. So yes, TikTok does access the wifi.

Ah that's easy, all social media networks do that. twitter showed me people i spoke at a conference with and had no common connection with. facebook and instagram showed me contacts of people i knew but wasn't friends with. they all do that. i don't know what "access the wifi" means, since it the context of usage they naturally connect to the wifi...

 

[Jar of Flies]

ByteDance (Tik Tok's parent company) has until Jan 19 to sell TikTok or face a total ban from app stores such as Apple, Google, etc in the United States of America.

Interesting date, I wonder why that was selected..

 

[PBAC]

Ah that's easy, all social media networks do that. twitter showed me people i spoke at a conference with and had no common connection with. facebook and instagram showed me contacts of people i knew but wasn't friends with. they all do that. i don't know what "access the wifi" means, since it the context of usage they naturally connect to the wifi...

well in the congressional hearing one senator asked if TikTok accesses the wifi. It was played off as a an old person not understanding how wifi works joke on the app, but the actual reasoning behind the questioning was the suspicion that many of these apps are capable of actually intruding into someone's wifi network, that is getting information from anything in range and planting suspect code into the actual wifi network. That is they will blatantly just access the actual wifi and take any info they want. The west have not yet detected network jumping bot viruses which started showing up the same time TikTok did. They were also pushing AI gen content long before anyone else was, including early bragging that the app is mostly AI generated content designed to hook the user according to their interests.

The senators were clearly given a list of valid concerns by professionals but were not capable of articulating the concerns because they know jack shit about computers.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

well in the congressional hearing one senator asked if TikTok accesses the wifi. It was played off as a an old person not understanding how wifi works joke on the app, but the actual reasoning behind the questioning was the suspicion that many of these apps are capable of actually intruding into someone's wifi network, that is getting information from anything in range and planting suspect code into the actual wifi network. That is they will blatantly just access the actual wifi and take any info they want. The west have not yet detected network jumping bot viruses which started showing up the same time TikTok did. They were also pushing AI gen content long before anyone else was, including early bragging that the app is mostly AI generated content designed to hook the user according to their interests.

The senators were clearly given a list of valid concerns by professionals but were not capable of articulating the concerns because they know jack shit about computers.

yeah that person asking the question has no idea about wireless home topologies. the internet is a bunch of tubes. he probably should have asked if tiktok has any data gathering protocol that's active once the wifi connection is initiated, or does it access other devices on the network (besides ARP obviously). that's not that hard to verify.

 

[BIKES!]

I've brought this up many times. It is forcing particular points of view and you end up watching one and engaging. It then starts forcing more of the same content at you. Basically it's like sitting through commercials and the people running the campaigns think you actually enjoy watching them. The algorhythm will show you what you want to a certain degree and then 1/10 will be some weird out of context dystopian campaign. They also heavily control the comments and make sure 99/100 are anti western. Having actually used the Tiannemen Square hashtag I have definitely noticed my reach being decreased too. They also keep showing me content from people I know in real life but aren't in my contacts and I have not synced my accounts. So yes, TikTok does access the wifi.

So TikTok is basically CNN, The View, Rachel Maddow, Jimmy Kimmel, and SNL?