Throwback - Ferguson Vs Kevin Lee (GIFS)

kevin in one of those fights where he is dominating and then just fades in the later rounds somehow,
and also Tony went through even more devastating moments when he fought Lando but then also won lol
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I mean fighter Kevin Lee literally has a third nipple on his chest from staph, so maybe that didn’t help all that much
 
Khabib is an expert in positioning, weight distribution and advancement that leads to his opponents either giving a neck or GNP.

Khabib fights as if he had a matrix machine hooked up to his brain and uploaded a fight sequence and he just automatically follows that sequence

Chael said it best-He didnt even loose a sequence in the fight with Dustin.

From the first second of the fight to the last second or to the finish Khabib fights like he is in full control of the fight.

So its not always about explosiveness. Even Dustin said that his key was weight distribution, control and tenacity

Khabib is a master of grappling/position advancemen
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I agree and i never said otherwise. Kevin lee looked like a monster in the first rd against tony but he gassed, he always gasses. Khabib knows how to pace himself and is way more durable and also very strong and explosive. a much better fighter overall. However, he does slow down and takes somre rds "off", it gets harder for him to td his opponents and decides to strike. he's a very decent striker but tony is more versatile and sneaky, and he's got god level cardio. championship rounds will be tough for khabib imo, they will both be gassed out and i think tony has more fight in him, he's a dog.
 
I mean to outgrapple and control prime streaking RDA is a achievement, in itself..

It's a solid win sure. But it was literally Khabib being just good enough to hold RDA down and control him but do zero damage, and RDA being just good enough to take no damage but not good enough to stay off his back. People (who likely haven't seen the fight--lucky them) yap about "domination" though, and I'm like "this is still supposed to be a FIGHT, right?" Did Khabib win? Yes. Was it a clear win? Yes. Dominant? If it's a fight, then no. He laid on top of RDA for most of 15 minutes.
 
I mean to outgrapple and control prime streaking RDA is a achievement, in itself..
It is.

It's also quite an achievement to out cardio RDA in the altitude of Mexico City while winning both championship rounds.
 
It's a solid win sure. But it was literally Khabib being just good enough to hold RDA down and control him but do zero damage, and RDA being just good enough to take no damage but not good enough to stay off his back. People (who likely haven't seen the fight--lucky them) yap about "domination" though, and I'm like "this is still supposed to be a FIGHT, right?" Did Khabib win? Yes. Was it a clear win? Yes. Dominant? If it's a fight, then no. He laid on top of RDA for most of 15 minutes.
Not exactly surprising..
RDA has always been incredibly procifient at minimalising the amount of damage he absorbs while on his back.. mostly at the expense of any real offense.
 
It is.

It's also quite an achievement to out cardio RDA in the altitude of Mexico City while winning both championship rounds.
I agree..
It's not like I disregarded Tony's win in that post. lol.
 
Its retarded that Tony couldn't kick or even push Lee's head with his feetd while Lee was on mount, that rule is so fucking retarded in its current state.

I cant stand the various grounded opponent rules.
 
Not exactly surprising..
RDA has always been incredibly procifient at minimalising the amount of damage he absorbs while on his back.. mostly at the expense of any real offense.

Oh for sure, but it made for one of the more boring fights I've seen. And Khabib isn't a boring fighter, he's busy on the mat and deals damage. But yeah, RDA is terrific defensively with his guard, and Khabib wasn't trying to take any chances and pass. He was content to win rounds laying on top of RDA.

My point was more that people throw around the word "dominated" in a fight like that and that's laughable to me. Khabib landed 14 more sig strikes total in that fight. Yeah he had top position, but when you do no damage and it's a fight, that's not "dominating" someone. It's laying on them and winning rounds sure, but "dominating"? No.

The same people point to RDA winning 2 rounds vs Tony and that being a close fight and how Khabib's wasn't. Well, Tony could have gotten rd 3 vs RDA (it was very close, Tony outlanded him) which would have made it 4-1. But even at 3-2, Tony landed TWO HUNDRED sig strikes on RDA. Yes, Tony got hit too but it's a fight and RDA looked like he'd been beaten with a baseball bat while Tony looked fine. It's hilarious (to me anyway) that someone would use that performance by Tony vs Khabib's performance vs RDA to denigrate Tony. I mean, again, it's a FIGHT, right? One guy fucked RDA up badly, the other laid on top of him. Yet plenty of people here act like Khabib dominated RDA and Tony was sooooo lucky to win his fight vs RDA. Comical.
 
Oh for sure, but it made for one of the more boring fights I've seen. And Khabib isn't a boring fighter, he's busy on the mat and deals damage. But yeah, RDA is terrific defensively with his guard, and Khabib wasn't trying to take any chances and pass. He was content to win rounds laying on top of RDA.

My point was more that people throw around the word "dominated" in a fight like that and that's laughable to me. Khabib landed 14 more sig strikes total in that fight. Yeah he had top position, but when you do no damage and it's a fight, that's not "dominating" someone. It's laying on them and winning rounds sure, but "dominating"? No.

The same people point to RDA winning 2 rounds vs Tony and that being a close fight and how Khabib's wasn't. Well, Tony could have gotten rd 3 vs RDA (it was very close, Tony outlanded him) which would have made it 4-1. But even at 3-2, Tony landed TWO HUNDRED sig strikes on RDA. Yes, Tony got hit too but it's a fight and RDA looked like he'd been beaten with a baseball bat while Tony looked fine. It's hilarious (to me anyway) that someone would use that performance by Tony vs Khabib's performance vs RDA to denigrate Tony. I mean, again, it's a FIGHT, right? One guy fucked RDA up badly, the other laid on top of him. Yet plenty of people here act like Khabib dominated RDA and Tony was sooooo lucky to win his fight vs RDA. Comical.

Khabib's win against RDA was utter domination: there was no point in the fight where RDA was doing better than Khabib, RDA literally got outgrappled from bell to bell. Damage has nothing to do with any of this, as Khabib has clearly proven to be the superior grappler. If you disagree with the notion of Khabib's win over RDA being a dominant one, please specify the moments in the fight where RDA was doing better than Khabib: where he had a superior position on Khabib or was outstriking him. In other words, specifiy the moments in the fight where RDA was outgrappling Khabib, since this was a pretty much pure grappling battle. The only thing RDA did was attempt a worthless guillotine from the bottom. The fight wasn't even competitive. Also, you are wrong in your notion that Khabib was just laying on top of RDA, Khabib was constantly trying to advance position and managed to pass RDA's guard thrice. Considering how good RDA's defensive guard is, that is a pretty impressive accomplishment. The only one who has managed to really hurt RDA on the ground was Marty and he's a whole weightclass bigger than both RDA and Khabib.

Meanwhile, Ferguson dropped 2 rounds to RDA. There were multiple points in the fight where RDA was doing better than Ferguson, thus Ferguson's win cannot be called dominant as the fight was highly competitive and there were many points in the fight where RDA looked like he might win the fight. In fact, up until the 5th round, RDA looked like he still had a good chance of winning. The fact that Ferguson landed 200 punches on RDA is irrelevant, because RDA landed 120 of his own strikes right back. And this is without even considering the impact of Ferguson's eyepoke on RDA.
 
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Kevin Lee got way better hands than Khabib to set up his TDs
 
Khabib's win against RDA was utter domination: there was no point in the fight where RDA was doing better than Khabib, RDA literally got outgrappled from bell to bell. Damage has nothing to do with any of this, as Khabib has clearly proven to be the superior grappler. If you disagree with the notion of Khabib's win over RDA being a dominant one, please specify the moments in the fight where RDA was doing better than Khabib: where he had a superior position on Khabib or was outstriking him. The only thing RDA did was attempt a worthless guillotine from the bottom. The fight wasn't even competitive. Also, you are wrong in your notion that Khabib was just laying on top of RDA, Khabib was constantly trying to advance position and managed to pass RDA's guard thrice. Consdering how good RDA's defensive guard is, that is a pretty impressive accomplishment. The only one who has managed to really hurt RDA on the ground was Marty and he's a whole weightclass bigger than both RDA and Khabib.

Meanwhile, Ferguson dropped 2 rounds to RDA. There were multiple points in the fight where RDA was doing better than Ferguson, thus Ferguson's win cannot be called dominant as the fight was highly competitive and there were many points in the fight where RDA looked like he might win the fight. In fact, up until the 5th round, RDA looked like he still had a good chance of winning. The fact that Ferguson landed 200 punches on RDA is irrelevant, because RDA landed 120 of his own strikes right back. And this is without even considering the impact of Ferguson's eyepoke on RDA.

Isn't damage the #1 criteria used under the unified rules in scoring fights though? I understand your point in that Khabib controlled RDA, but saying "damage has nothing to do with any of this" seems wrong given the scoring system specifically points to damage as a main criteria. Neither fighter really did any in Khabib/RDA. So the #1 criteria almost needed to just be thrown out for that fight.

I also don't understand how landing 80 more significant strikes vs landing 14 more is irrelevant if damage is a criteria. Taking into account 3 rds vs 5, Ferguson averaged landing 16 more sig strikes per round than RDA, while Khabib averaged landing 5 more per round. Again, given that damage is specifically named as a judging criteria I can't see how that doesn't matter.

Me saying Khabib just laid on RDA is a bit of hyperbole, he did attempt to advance at times. My point was more that he didn't attempt to do much damage as he was far more concerned with control in that fight. Understandably so, RDA's defensive guard is terrific for sure.

I guess it's a matter of perspective, but to me this is still FIGHTING, not a grappling match. For sure you can win a fight the way Khabib did vs RDA but that doesnt really look dominating to me if we are calling it a fight. It looks like a clear win, a safe win, but not dominant. In a positional grappling contest? Yes, dominant.
 
Isn't damage the #1 criteria used under the unified rules in scoring fights though? I understand your point in that Khabib controlled RDA, but saying "damage has nothing to do with any of this" seems wrong given the scoring system specifically points to damage as a main criteria. Neither fighter really did any in Khabib/RDA. So the #1 criteria almost needed to just be thrown out for that fight.

I also don't understand how landing 80 more significant strikes vs landing 14 more is irrelevant if damage is a criteria. Taking into account 3 rds vs 5, Ferguson averaged landing 16 more sig strikes per round than RDA, while Khabib averaged landing 5 more per round. Again, given that damage is specifically named as a judging criteria I can't see how that doesn't matter.

Me saying Khabib just laid on RDA is a bit of hyperbole, he did attempt to advance at times. My point was more that he didn't attempt to do much damage as he was far more concerned with control in that fight. Understandably so, RDA's defensive guard is terrific for sure.

I guess it's a matter of perspective, but to me this is still FIGHTING, not a grappling match. For sure you can win a fight the way Khabib did vs RDA but that doesnt really look dominating to me if we are calling it a fight. It looks like a clear win, a safe win, but not dominant. In a positional grappling contest? Yes, dominant.

The two main judging criteria are effective striking and effective grappling. Damage is the main thing that defines effective striking, I think there's a whole article on the topic by McCarthy, but I'm not going to search it now on a phone. Effective grappling is defined by damage on the ground, submission attempts, reversals and achievement of advantageous positions as well as takedowns that lead to an established offense.

On the feet, the fight was pretty much equal. Even RDA's corner commented on how they're equally matched on the feet, but this was only a minor portion of the fight. The fight was decided during grappling engagements that constituted the majority of the fight, engagements where Khabib displayed complete domination since he always had the advantageous position and was constantly trying to advance position. The only grappling engagement that might be considered "lay and pray" heavy from Kahbib's side is the one in the second round, where Khabib was putting his weight on RDA against the cage with RDA standing on all fours, but even during that engagement Khabib was trying to advance position by putting one of the hooks in and trying to take the back - something that was acknowledged by the commentators, it wasn't just lay and pray. In all other grappling engagements Khabib was landing strikes from top, some of them being heavy elbows.

Thus, for the effective grappling scoring criteria we have:
1. 6 takedowns for Khabib, zero for RDA.
2. Damage on the ground, however small it was, was completely in Khabib's favor. RDA did literally no damage on the ground.
3. Utter positional domination by Khabib, RDA was never in an advantageous position.
4. The only thing RDA did on the ground was attempt an ineffective guillotine which Khabib defended by doing virtually nothing: stayed in half guard and just waited it out only to pop his head out when RDA could no longer maintain the squeeze.

Essentially, the fight WAS a grappling match and Khabib utterly dominated RDA in the grappling department. It wasn't competitive. Since grappling constituted the majority of the fight, Khabib dominated RDA in the fight. I don't see how anyone could argue against this.

When it comes to Ferguson vs RDA, Ferguson did outstrike RDA and delivered more damage, but there were many moments in the fight where RDA was finding success and did damage of his own. He even managed to win 2 rounds, so the fight WAS competitive.
 
Tony never stops fighting,
Being slammed, i ll just take these 2-3 seconds to elbow the guy in his head
Tony is just that kind of guy
 
It's a solid win sure. But it was literally Khabib being just good enough to hold RDA down and control him but do zero damage, and RDA being just good enough to take no damage but not good enough to stay off his back. People (who likely haven't seen the fight--lucky them) yap about "domination" though, and I'm like "this is still supposed to be a FIGHT, right?" Did Khabib win? Yes. Was it a clear win? Yes. Dominant? If it's a fight, then no. He laid on top of RDA for most of 15 minutes.

That's more of a testament to RDA's grappling, he's very hard to inflict damage to on the floor, very sound defensively.
 
and people think he has a chance vs khabib lol, he literally got taking down by fucking cerrone
 
According to Sonnen, based on what he had heard and seen both Khabib and Tony never get tired.
 
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