Thoughts on Wrestling Dominance

Not that long ago, almost every champion in the UFC came from a US wrestling background, and today many American wrestlers still occupy the top-10 of every division. However, the days of American wrestling glory seem to be gone as only two champions (Usman and Sterling) come from US wrestling. That's being generous, since we all know how Sterling became champ.

So, what happened? Has US wrestling fallen off? Has the rest of the combat sports world caught up? Or is it just part of a new trend in combat sports?
- it's an Olympic year. Top tier wrestlers are training for international competitions.

- many top wrestlers in the US are competing through regional training centers. They are making money coaching and competing in wrestling.

There are sports options for American wrestlers once they graduate from college. They no longer feel like they have to get kicked in the head to feel that competition feeling again.
 
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- it's an Olympic year. Top tier wrestlers are training for international competitions.

- many top wrestlers in the US are competing through regional training centers. They are making money coaching and competing in wrestling.

There are sports options for American wrestlers once they graduate from college. They no longer feel like they have to get kicked in the head to feel that competition feeling again.

People don't realize how crazy it is to simply make it to the Olympics (for that matter the trials). There is now only six weight classes in freestyle and greco. Add to that you may not get in even if you win the qualifier for your country as did Jordan Oliver. He had to go to the world qualification tournament after winning our national qualifier where he lost in the finals. Therefore the US doesn't even have a wrestler in the Olympics at 65kg. Add to that Oliver had to beat Yianni, Nick Lee, and Joey McKenna just to win our National trials. That finals loss by one point at the World qualifier to the russian had to be brutal.
 
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I believe another factor in the "less wrestling based champions" thing is the tiny sample size. After all, there are only eight male divisions in the UFC (I leave out WMMA because there is much less of a wrestling pipeline to turn out fighters). Even if you include the entire UFC, 500 is still a fairly small sample size, though it's a lot more statistically significant than champions, or even contenders.
 
Just want to comment that this thread is pretty cool, as a discussion, and not the usual stuff.
Also @Applehead , know anything about following amateur MMA, no-gi grappling or anything else, really? I don't "follow" anything consistently but it's nice to have the resources known and available. When it comes to wrestling I browse United World Wrestling channel when in the mood ( https://www.youtube.com/user/WrestlingTV ).
@YungSithLxrd Check this channel. Might be a part of what you're looking for.
Thank you sir I'll check it out
 
If you have cable TV, you can usually find the duals on the Big Ten Network channel. The best collegiate wrestling programs are in the Big Ten like Penn State, Iowa, Rutgers, etc. You can also find the individual matches online on the Big Ten Network’s YouTube channel. Some people also upload full wrestling dual meets on YouTube, so you can see other big, non-Big Ten programs wrestle like Oklahoma State, etc. Unfortunately, the big swinging dick of streaming in the wrestling world is FloWrestling and they’re known to try to copyright claim EVERYTHING haha. A lot of wrestling fans hate Flo. As far as international wrestling, you can find a lot of them on YouTube. When they have the World Championships, you’ll be able to find those online. You can also get the Olympic matches on there, as well. The NCAA Finals are ALWAYS televised live on ESPN. It’s one of my favorite nights of the year. Get some popcorn, round up any wrestling friends and watch all 10 championship matches live.
Bet I deff have ESPN ,I don't have standard cable but I have the streaming services some with live TV so maybe. But also I should watch the last few championships on youtube, thanks for the info bro
 
Not that long ago, almost every champion in the UFC came from a US wrestling background, and today many American wrestlers still occupy the top-10 of every division. However, the days of American wrestling glory seem to be gone as only two champions (Usman and Sterling) come from US wrestling. That's being generous, since we all know how Sterling became champ.

So, what happened? Has US wrestling fallen off? Has the rest of the combat sports world caught up? Or is it just part of a new trend in combat sports?
This without upkicks and knees on the ground(after sprawl).
 
I’ve had this discussion in multiple threads and there has clearly been a decline in the amount of elite American wrestlers (historically the main source of MMA talent from the US) transitioning to MMA. There still are some and there are some elite wrestlers currently in the process of transitioning, but it slowed down drastically for whatever reason.
I think wrestlers today understand that it's no longer like the old days where you can just hop in the cage and win a bunch of fights on wrestling alone. There's a lot of work involved in becoming a good MMA fighter for wrestlers. But that wasn't always the case, and I think that deters many of them
Jared Rosholt was 6-2 in the UFC using a heavy wrestling style that was not very fan friendly but got the job done more times then not.

He was not offered a contract renewal.
And they were getting to cut Colby too. That's why he suddenly turned heel
 
It's all prevalent based on the division and who's champ.
 
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I still think that the combination of wrestling + good hands is the overalll most tried and tested combination out there.
 
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I think wrestlers today understand that it's no longer like the old days where you can just hop in the cage and win a bunch of fights on wrestling alone. There's a lot of work involved in becoming a good MMA fighter for wrestlers. But that wasn't always the case, and I think that deters many of them

And they were getting to cut Colby too. That's why he suddenly turned heel
Yep Colby was going to get the walking papers after the Maia fight despite being like 7-1 in the UFC. That's when he turned into MAGA Colby and the UFC kept him.
 
Can you expand on that? Curious to hear what you mean.
Competitive natured. Overrated, yet champ (Aljo actually is) material at same time. Filled with gimmicks and ability to sell the calls (foul vs yan) and exploit rules or at the least use them to your advantage (lay n pray).
 
Competitive natured. Overrated, yet champ (Aljo actually is) material at same time. Filled with gimmicks and ability to sell the calls (foul vs yan) and exploit rules or at the least use them to your advantage (lay n pray).
Ah, I see. Fair enough. Thank you for explaining.
 
Wrestling has the best victory rate overall from ufc 4 when the format was created by Brazilians to advantage the Brazilians.

Volkanovski has greco background. Cormier and Cejudo are out and Jones leaves the belt so, yes Wrestling is still the best foundation. There are many russian fighters with freestyle background in other federations and the next phase of wrestling dominance is called Daghestan. UFC has no interest to sign strong but "boring" wrestlers.
 
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Both have their advantages, folkstyle has the “ride-time” and better ground control. How many freestyle wrestlers get a TD and the guy immediately stands up.

Both need complimentary submission grappling for them to work in mma effectively. So that you sink hooks on back takes.

Many russian wrestlers have experience in different wrestling styles. For example Nurmagomedov started with freestyle wrestling but he has also grappling and Pankration training.
Today Russian wrestling federation have big tournaments with freestyle, greco and grappling (UWW ruleset).

Ps. Pico was good at cadet and junior. Senior level is another world.
 
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Don’t get me started.
 
Many russian wrestlers have experience in different wrestling styles. For example Nurmagomedov started with freestyle wrestling but he has also grappling and Pankration training.
Today Russian wrestling federation have big tournaments with freestyle, greco and grappling (UWW ruleset).

Ps. Pico was good at cadet and junior. Senior level is another world.

For sure, once you get into Sambo or Pankration training the positional battles change goals as you have submissions.

Wrestling needs others styles in order to dominate in mma. Even having a good submission defense game goes a long way in mma when you come as a wrestler and just plain “knowing where not to be” for the jiu jitsu guys.
 
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For sure, once you get into Sambo or Pankration training the positional battles change goals as you have submissions.

Wrestling needs others styles in order to dominate in mma. Even having a good submission defense game goes a long way in mma when you come as a wrestler and just plain “knowing where not to be” for the jiu jitsu guys.

Pankration and Grappling are Wrestling styles according to UWW. Pankration is very big in Russia with a lot of fighters and a professional league.
 
If you have been paying attention the UFC has actively been avoiding signing dominant, but boring wrestlers for a couple years now. So this lack of American wrestlers has been kinda manufactured.
This, this, and this...

I agree in theory, but am not familiar enough with collegiate wrestlers (or Russians, I guess) to know if there are any out there who have entered MMA and are really dominating. That dude from Bellator that beat Lima is one who immediately comes to mind, he reminds me of a throwback style. This guy on the new season of TUF had some pretty decent credentials as far as I remember.

Are there many guys out there putting up impressive W/L records with a wrestling heavy base that the UFC aren't signing? I'd figure they'd eventually pursue them just on hype alone
Where to start right? Let's talk just about contender series guys who won their contender series fights.

Julius Anglickas, Sidney Outlaw, Austin Vanderford, Justin Gonzales, Danny Sabatello, kyle Driscoll, Nick Maximov also didn't make the cut and then got resigned later after the Nate Diaz fight, but really only because he's Diaz's protege. Collin Huckbody was signed but released without a fight.

There's Nick Browne the LFA Champion. James Nakashima was doing very well until the Abbasov fight where Abbasov was like 15 pounds heavier haha, One FC things. He was also a LFA champ fwiw. Alex Polizzi was another LFA champion, now signed to Bellator.

There are also fighters the UFC had and then decided not to challenge bids on, including Ryan Bader, Corey Anderson, Phil Davis, Jordan Johnson, etc. Basically the reverse Michael Chandler, who is also a wrestler.

This gets into dicier territory because now we're talking about fighters signed to other promotions who, there may be underlying contractual issues. Champions clauses, things like that. Nevertheless, I'll just throw some names out there. 2 time PFL champion Lance Palmer, PFL Champion Ray Cooper III, PFL champ Louis Taylor (I can kinda understand this one because he's like 40), in this year's PFL players there's Chris Wade, Bubba Jenkins. Also Tyler Diamond, the aforementioned Rosholt, David Michaud. On to bellator... Juan Archuleta was recently a champ. Darrion Caldwell also was recently a champ. There's Raufeon Stots. A lot of prospects now in Bellator's rankings. US Greco team member Chris Gonzalez. Cody Law. Logan Storley. Joey Davis. Kyle Crutchmer. John Salter, who will fight Mousasi for the title in a month. Johnny Eblen. Romero Cotton. Ed Ruth. Dalton Rosta. Taylor Johnson. Tyrell Fortune. Davion Franklin. Recent HW title contender Tim Johnson. One has a few like Troy Worthen and Joey Pierotti as well. Wrestlers need to stop going to One. Their weight cut and drug testing is a joke, and it naturally hurts wrestlers more than strikers to be at a big weight disadvantage.

That's only if we are talking American wrestlers. Wrestling isn't inherently American, I root for wrestlers everywhere. For Non-americans, particularly from russian wrestling and sambo backgrounds, there's Magomed Magomedkerimov, a PFL champ. Current Bellator Champ Valentin Moldavsky. Current Bellator Champ Yaroslav Amosov. Current Bellator Champ Vadim Nemkov (he prefers striking, his wrestling comes out in some fights but not all). The other Fedor Camp guy, Anatoly Tokov, who might soon contend for the belt as well. There's the prospect who beat current TUF contender Lachinov, Shamil Nikaev. The last fighter to beat Petr Yan, Magomed Magomedov. I will say that the UFC has been more receptive to wrestlers from EEU, probably some Khabib effect, but guys like Movsar Evloev or Shakvat Rahkmonov, Islam Makhachev, Arman Tsarukyan, Alexander Romanov, etc.

You can look at these names and say "oh well it's PFL, it's Bellator, UFC is the big leagues, they'd never stand a chance in the UFC." Well, firstly, I think Anthony Pettis is becoming more and more embarrassing. But the snark aside, look, Bellator is more developed today than Strikeforce was at its acquisition, PFL maybe not as much but getting there. Many strikeforce roster fighters went on to be UFC champs. Daniel Cormier held 2 titles. Tyron Woodley defended his title 3 times. Both college wrestlers. Luke Rockhold held a title, he was also a community college wrestler, albeit briefly. Yoel Romero contended for a title and would have won one absent missing weight, he also needs no introduction. Even Derek Brunson, has had some embarrassing losses but has slammed the door shut on 4 straight prospects the UFC was high on and is maybe 2 fights from a title fight. So is every guy I just listed above a UFC title contender? Probably not. But if the UFC pursued wrestlers in the way they pursue jack-of-all trades brawlers then the landscape of the UFC would be indisputably different.

Dana doesn't want wrestlers. He's made that abundantly clear and you know what, it's his decision to make. It's his promotion, he can do what he thinks is best. And honestly, like every time the fight goes to the ground for 30 seconds or in a clinch position you start to hear fans boo, so I'm not sure that he's even wrong about what fans want. But I think to use that to draw conclusions about the state of wrestling in MMA is pretty disingenuous. Dana's created this ecosystem where fighters like Kevin Holland can get to very high levels of the sport without having their massive wrestling flaws exposed. And for entertainment purposes, that's fine. But when we're discussing the state of the meta of MMA, if people think "oh people know how to stop wrestlers now" or even "the meta is constantly shifting" it's really not.
 
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