Thoughts on Wrestling Dominance

[Foghorn Leghorn]

If you have been paying attention the UFC has actively been avoiding signing dominant, but boring wrestlers for a couple years now. So this lack of American wrestlers has been kinda manufactured.

I agree in theory, but am not familiar enough with collegiate wrestlers (or Russians, I guess) to know if there are any out there who have entered MMA and are really dominating. That dude from Bellator that beat Lima is one who immediately comes to mind, he reminds me of a throwback style. This guy on the new season of TUF had some pretty decent credentials as far as I remember.

Are there many guys out there putting up impressive W/L records with a wrestling heavy base that the UFC aren't signing? I'd figure they'd eventually pursue them just on hype alone

 

[Bend NvR Break]

I agree in theory, but am not familiar enough with collegiate wrestlers (or Russians, I guess) to know if there are any out there who have entered MMA and are really dominating. That dude from Bellator that beat Lima is one who immediately comes to mind, he reminds me of a throwback style. This guy on the new season of TUF had some pretty decent credentials as far as I remember.

Are there many guys out there putting up impressive W/L records with a wrestling heavy base that the UFC aren't signing? I'd figure they'd eventually pursue them just on hype alone

Jared Rosholt was 6-2 in the UFC using a heavy wrestling style that was not very fan friendly but got the job done more times then not.

He was not offered a contract renewal.

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

The whole "wrestling is by far the best base for MMA" promoted by Rogan was always nonsense. The reality is that there has always been ebbs and flows with this. In the beginning, BJJ was king. Then the wrestlers learned submission defense and started dominating. Then strikers improved their TDD and they started taking over. Then wrestlers started developing their striking and started taking over. Etc, etc.

Right now, strikers are leading the way. But that will shift again at some point. My hope is that BJJ evolves and fills in the gaps that currently exist in that discipline, i.e., better takedowns and the ability to actually keep people down (Danaher has talked in depth about this). BJJ has fallen way behind in the MMA context, and it would be nice to see them join the party.

BJJ athletes will start doing much better in 5-10 years, the level of wrestling is shooting way up. It sucks Lovato couldn't keep fighting because he was looking damn good.

 

[YungSithLxrd]

I love wrestling. I watch college and international wrestling all of the time. However, I do like the fact that MMA/UFC is so diverse that it's not just completely dominated by wrestlers.
Women's STRAW: Namajunas. Not a wrestler.
Women's FLYW: Shevchenko. Not a wrestler.
Women's BW/Feather: Nunes. Not a wrestler.
Flyweight: Moreno. Not a wrestler.
BW: Sterling. Wrestler.
Feather: Volkanovski. Not a wrestler.
LW: Oliveira. Not a wrestler.
WW: Usman. Wrestler.
MW: Adesanya. Not a wrestler.
LHW: Blachowicz. Not a wrestler.
HW: Ngannou. Not a wrestler.

I know some will comment like "all of those people can defend and grapple, though." What I mean is, outside of Usman and Sterling, none of those other fighters came from extensive American amateur wrestling backgrounds. They all know how to wrestle enough to win MMA fights, but they didn't come from the amateur/collegiate background. I think it just goes to show that those "oh, bro. So and so *elite collegiate wrestler* would be UFC champion with 6 months of training." At the end of the day, you still have to get in there and win those fights. Look at Aaron Pico and how long it's taken him to figure it out. Fighting takes time with trial and errors. You can't just waltz in there and smoke everyone.

How can I watch college/international wrestling

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Jared Rosholt was 6-2 in the UFC using a heavy wrestling style that was not very fan friendly but got the job done more times then not.

He was not offered a contract renewal.

Yeah, I remember Jared and his brother Jake. More so Jake because of the arm triangle on Leben, left em twitching. I was more talking about newer guys who are coming up. Jared still got his shot. His fighting style was definitely unappealing to viewers, but he was reasonably effective. The losses to Struve and Oleinik definitely did him no favours. If he had kept winning, like say the perfect example here, Jon Fitch, they probably would have kept him around for awhile.

I just didn't know if there was anybody out there with some solid NCAA credentials who is younger, on the come up with say, I don't know, a 10-0 record or something impressive like that.

 

[Luckyme]

I don’t think American wrestling has fallen off. It was just over-represented in the early days of the UFC. Now that the rest of the world has caught up, you see dominant wrestlers emerging from other places like Dagestan.

You could say the days of the one-dimensional are over with Ben Askren likely being the last one. Back in the glory days, the UFC was filled with lay and prey American wrestlers like Coleman, Randleman, Kerr, Chael, etc. That wouldn’t fly today. Usman and Aljo, for example, are well rounded. Recent champions like Stipe and Cejudo had Golden Gloves boxing to complement their high level wrestling.

 

[YungSithLxrd]

Both have their advantages, folkstyle has the “ride-time” and better ground control. How many freestyle wrestlers get a TD and the guy immediately stands up.

Both need complimentary submission grappling for them to work in mma effectively. So that you sink hooks on back takes.

You would think after so much practice and experience they'd think to put a hook in or handcuff

 

[YungSithLxrd]

I think BJJ strikers will begin to rise to the top to once again. Guys who can bang at a high level with no fear of the ground. I know Oliveira has been subbed before but his style i think is Meta BJJ for MMA make these wrestlers work on the ground and they gas in round 1 majority of the time

 

[Daelh]

I agree with most opinions in this thread. But we've also seen lately that UFC puts a huge emphasis on signing brawlers that apparently are entertaining and not signing wrestlers. Most wrestlers nowadays sign with Bellator. So I think UFC is missing out on some potentially top talent.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Yeah, I remember Jared and his brother Jake. More so Jake because of the arm triangle on Leben, left em twitching. I was more talking about newer guys who are coming up. Jared still got his shot. His fighting style was definitely unappealing to viewers, but he was reasonably effective. The losses to Struve and Oleinik definitely did him no favours. If he had kept winning, like say the perfect example here, Jon Fitch, they probably would have kept him around for awhile.

I just didn't know if there was anybody out there with some solid NCAA credentials who is younger, on the come up with say, I don't know, a 10-0 record or something impressive like that.

He beat Struve. He lost to Roy in his next fight.

 

[Applehead]

How can I watch college/international wrestling

If you have cable TV, you can usually find the duals on the Big Ten Network channel. The best collegiate wrestling programs are in the Big Ten like Penn State, Iowa, Rutgers, etc. You can also find the individual matches online on the Big Ten Network’s YouTube channel. Some people also upload full wrestling dual meets on YouTube, so you can see other big, non-Big Ten programs wrestle like Oklahoma State, etc. Unfortunately, the big swinging dick of streaming in the wrestling world is FloWrestling and they’re known to try to copyright claim EVERYTHING haha. A lot of wrestling fans hate Flo. As far as international wrestling, you can find a lot of them on YouTube. When they have the World Championships, you’ll be able to find those online. You can also get the Olympic matches on there, as well. The NCAA Finals are ALWAYS televised live on ESPN. It’s one of my favorite nights of the year. Get some popcorn, round up any wrestling friends and watch all 10 championship matches live.

 

[Applehead]

How can I watch college/international wrestling

Send me a DM, man. When the season starts in November, I’ll forward you over some matches if you’re interested in following the sport. Once you start becoming familiar with the guys and who is ranked where, it gets easier to follow upcoming matches and stuff like that. Always happy to help someone get into wrestling. It’s an awesome sport.

 

[WarDronx]

Just want to comment that this thread is pretty cool, as a discussion, and not the usual stuff.
Also @Applehead , know anything about following amateur MMA, no-gi grappling or anything else, really? I don't "follow" anything consistently but it's nice to have the resources known and available. When it comes to wrestling I browse United World Wrestling channel when in the mood ( https://www.youtube.com/user/WrestlingTV ).
@YungSithLxrd Check this channel. Might be a part of what you're looking for.

 

[Applehead]

Just want to comment that this thread is pretty cool, as a discussion, and not the usual stuff.
Also @Applehead , know anything about following amateur MMA, no-gi grappling or anything else, really? I don't "follow" anything consistently but it's nice to have the resources known and available. When it comes to wrestling I browse United World Wrestling channel when in the mood ( https://www.youtube.com/user/WrestlingTV ).
@YungSithLxrd Check this channel. Might be a part of what you're looking for.

I honestly don’t, man. No. I only know the local amateur MMA scene from where I’m from (Florida). I’m familiar with amateur MMA promotions in Florida like Combat Night, which is in the Tallahassee area I believe. I think that was Josh Samman’s promotion before he tragically passed away. I know like Rise of the Warrior, which is another ammy MMA promotion that’s down near my neck of the woods. I’ve never been to an amateur MMA event, though. I’d like to go to one sometime. There are also no-gi grappling events in this area that I’m vaguely familiar with, but admittedly don’t know much about. If you have any knowledge of those scenes, by all means feel free to pass it on. Wrestling is really the only sport out of the sports you mentioned above that I follow religiously. I love wrestling season haha. That’s a great channel you posted too, by the way! @YungSithLxrd I’d absolutely check out United World Wrestling. That’s where you’ll learn a lot of international wrestlers. Not just the American ones. You can find out who “Giant Wrestling Khabib” is aka the freak show known as Abdulrashid Sadulaev. In my honest opinion, if Sadulaev ever got into MMA, he would be the greatest prospect of all time. The guy has an international freestyle wrestling record of 136-2, is an Olympic gold medalist, and is only 25 years old.

 

[WarDronx]

I honestly don’t, man. No. I only know the local amateur MMA scene from where I’m from (Florida). I’m familiar with amateur MMA promotions in Florida like Combat Night, which is in the Tallahassee area I believe. I think that was Josh Samman’s promotion before he tragically passed away. I know like Rise of the Warrior, which is another ammy MMA promotion that’s down near my neck of the woods. I’ve never been to an amateur MMA event, though. I’d like to go to one sometime. There are also no-gi grappling events in this area that I’m vaguely familiar with, but admittedly don’t know much about. If you have any knowledge of those scenes, by all means feel free to pass it on. Wrestling is really the only sport out of the sports you mentioned above that I follow religiously. I love wrestling season haha. That’s a great channel you posted too, by the way! @YungSithLxrd I’d absolutely check out United World Wrestling. That’s where you’ll learn a lot of international wrestlers. Not just the American ones. You can find out who “Giant Wrestling Khabib” is aka the freak show known as Abdulrashid Sadulaev. In my honest opinion, if Sadulaev ever got into MMA, he would be the greatest prospect of all time. The guy has an international freestyle wrestling record of 136-2, is an Olympic gold medalist, and is only 25 years old.

It's cool, man. I always just check when someone seems to know their shit! I'm not American so I don't know much about those scenes. The UWW has ammy MMA under their wing but I don't find much of it. Thanks anyway.

 

[Masturbin]

I think BJJ strikers will begin to rise to the top to once again. Guys who can bang at a high level with no fear of the ground. I know Oliveira has been subbed before but his style i think is Meta BJJ for MMA make these wrestlers work on the ground and they gas in round 1 majority of the time

On the contrary I think TDD and getting the fuck up will become the main asset in modern mma the good old days of guard play and sub and sweeps are done imo.


Staying up via with a good TDD score much more than guard play

 

[NoStoneUnturned]

How can I watch college/international wrestling

flowrestling.org is good but it is subscription based. Even has most of the big high school tournaments that draw future NCAA stars.

 

[Pressure Project]

You guys trying to make points using Sterling as an example of a “champion”.

Give me a break.

 

[Applehead]

It's cool, man. I always just check when someone seems to know their shit! I'm not American so I don't know much about those scenes. The UWW has ammy MMA under their wing but I don't find much of it. Thanks anyway.

Ammy MMA is pretty entertaining. At least I think it is. The fights inevitably get sloppy, so you get some funny moments and stuff like that. It’s also cool seeing guys come up from that circuit into the professional side. I just have never paid much attention to it, if I’m being real.

 

[Applehead]

You guys trying to make points using Sterling as an example of a “champion”.

Give me a break.

I get what you’re saying. I felt weird writing him down as champion in my post, but he technically is for RIGHT NOW. In a few months, that can and probably will change. I don’t see him ever beating Yan. I don’t know. Crazier things have happened. I just don’t personally see it. However, the guy has beaten other top contenders in the division, namely Cory Sandhagen, so he’s definitely a top 2 BW currently, regardless of whether he could beat Yan or not.