Thoughts on Wrestling Dominance

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G10

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Not that long ago, almost every champion in the UFC came from a US wrestling background, and today many American wrestlers still occupy the top-10 of every division. However, the days of American wrestling glory seem to be gone as only two champions (Usman and Sterling) come from US wrestling. That's being generous, since we all know how Sterling became champ.

So, what happened? Has US wrestling fallen off? Has the rest of the combat sports world caught up? Or is it just part of a new trend in combat sports?
 
Prior to those US wrestlers dominating, most of the champs werent American and/or collegiate wrestlers. This would have been the Penn, GSP, Silva, Machida/Shogun, Lesnar era.

Styles, ethnicities and nationalities, etc go in a circle in MMA.
 
Freestyle wrestling is a bit better for MMA than folkstyle wrestling because you can grasp your hands together. Look at pure wrestlers like Gaethje and Chandler freely giving up their backs to killer grapplers because that’s their muscle memory.
 
Only Here for Attachments said:
I love all of the "[UFC champion] has never beaten an elite wrestler!" topics but the OP can't name any.
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I don't understand, are you asking me to name champions who have beaten wrestlers or haven't beaten wrestlers? I think every champ besides Rose has beaten at least one American wrestler.

Ngannou beat Stipe and Blaydes
Blachowicz beat Anderson
Adesanya beat Brunson
Usman beat Covington
Oliveira beat Chandler
Volk beat Mendes
(not counting Sterling)
Moreno beat Ortiz
Nunes beat Tate
Shevchenko beat Pena

I'm not taking one side or another, just posing a question.
 
I love wrestling. I watch college and international wrestling all of the time. However, I do like the fact that MMA/UFC is so diverse that it's not just completely dominated by wrestlers.
Women's STRAW: Namajunas. Not a wrestler.
Women's FLYW: Shevchenko. Not a wrestler.
Women's BW/Feather: Nunes. Not a wrestler.
Flyweight: Moreno. Not a wrestler.
BW: Sterling. Wrestler.
Feather: Volkanovski. Not a wrestler.
LW: Oliveira. Not a wrestler.
WW: Usman. Wrestler.
MW: Adesanya. Not a wrestler.
LHW: Blachowicz. Not a wrestler.
HW: Ngannou. Not a wrestler.

I know some will comment like "all of those people can defend and grapple, though." What I mean is, outside of Usman and Sterling, none of those other fighters came from extensive American amateur wrestling backgrounds. They all know how to wrestle enough to win MMA fights, but they didn't come from the amateur/collegiate background. I think it just goes to show that those "oh, bro. So and so *elite collegiate wrestler* would be UFC champion with 6 months of training." At the end of the day, you still have to get in there and win those fights. Look at Aaron Pico and how long it's taken him to figure it out. Fighting takes time with trial and errors. You can't just waltz in there and smoke everyone.
 
The Chosen said:
Freestyle wrestling is a bit better for MMA than folkstyle wrestling because you can grasp your hands together. Look at pure wrestlers like Gaethje and Chandler freely giving up their backs to killer grapplers because that’s their muscle memory.
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Don't they spend more time on the ground in folkstyle?
 
Rajon Rondo said:
Don't they spend more time on the ground in folkstyle?
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Yeah. Because folkstyle emphasizes ride time a lot more. If you ride someone for 1 minute + in folkstyle, you pick up an extra point after the match has concluded. It's not as beneficial to do that in freestyle. Also, in folkstyle, you don't have the ability to lock hands and gutwrench or leg lace someone to pick up points like you can in freestyle. Only real way you can score bonus points in folkstyle is to pick up near-fall points. That's what Spencer Lee does. That's his entire MO. Takes you down, tilts you, racks up near-fall points, turns you back to your stomach, tilts you again, racks up near-fall, keeps doing that until he either tech falls you or gets you super close to it, so he can finish you off with one more takedown or so. They're just so vastly different.
 
G10 said:
I don't understand, are you asking me to name champions who have beaten wrestlers or haven't beaten wrestlers? I think every champ besides Rose has beaten at least one American wrestler.

Ngannou beat Stipe and Blaydes
Blachowicz beat Anderson
Adesanya beat Brunson
Usman beat Covington
Oliveira beat Chandler
Volk beat Mendes
(not counting Sterling)
Moreno beat Ortiz
Nunes beat Tate
Shevchenko beat Pena

I'm not taking one side or another, just posing a question.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I was unclear, I meant the OPs of the "so-and-so has never beaten an elite wrestler!" topics. Not you specifically :)
 
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I’ve had this discussion in multiple threads and there has clearly been a decline in the amount of elite American wrestlers (historically the main source of MMA talent from the US) transitioning to MMA. There still are some and there are some elite wrestlers currently in the process of transitioning, but it slowed down drastically for whatever reason.
 
kung fu is much more powerful than wrestling if you actually study the fights closely and have trained properly
 
The whole "wrestling is by far the best base for MMA" promoted by Rogan was always nonsense. The reality is that there has always been ebbs and flows with this. In the beginning, BJJ was king. Then the wrestlers learned submission defense and started dominating. Then strikers improved their TDD and they started taking over. Then wrestlers started developing their striking and started taking over. Etc, etc.

Right now, strikers are leading the way. But that will shift again at some point. My hope is that BJJ evolves and fills in the gaps that currently exist in that discipline, i.e., better takedowns and the ability to actually keep people down (Danaher has talked in depth about this). BJJ has fallen way behind in the MMA context, and it would be nice to see them join the party.
 
laleggenda27 said:
The whole "wrestling is by far the best base for MMA" promoted by Rogan was always nonsense. The reality is that there has always been ebbs and flows with this. In the beginning, BJJ was king. Then the wrestlers learned submission defense and started dominating. Then strikers improved their TDD and they started taking over. Then wrestlers started developing their striking and started taking over. Etc, etc.

Right now, strikers are leading the way. But that will shift again at some point. My hope is that BJJ evolves and fills in the gaps that currently exist in that discipline, i.e., better takedowns and the ability to actually keep people down (Danaher has talked in depth about this). BJJ has fallen way behind in the MMA context, and it would be nice to see them join the party.
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Only way that happens is if people move away from traditional BJJ. Which many will not do. That's the only way to innovate it more. Eddie Bravo innovated with 10planet style, Danahaer with leg locks. There is still room for more innovation.
 
The Chosen said:
Freestyle wrestling is a bit better for MMA than folkstyle wrestling because you can grasp your hands together. Look at pure wrestlers like Gaethje and Chandler freely giving up their backs to killer grapplers because that’s their muscle memory.
Click to expand...

Both have their advantages, folkstyle has the “ride-time” and better ground control. How many freestyle wrestlers get a TD and the guy immediately stands up.

Both need complimentary submission grappling for them to work in mma effectively. So that you sink hooks on back takes.
 
Selukrid612 said:
I’ve had this discussion in multiple threads and there has clearly been a decline in the amount of elite American wrestlers (historically the main source of MMA talent from the US) transitioning to MMA. There still are some and there are some elite wrestlers currently in the process of transitioning, but it slowed down drastically for whatever reason.
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Yeah. We’ll be getting Bo Nickal over soon enough. I know Anthony Cassar is coming, as well. Nick Suriano has indicated that he’s interested. Roman Bravo-Young the same. So, they’re coming at some point. As far as the Kyle Dake/David Taylor’s of the world, they’ll probably never step foot in a cage. They’re just wrestlers through and through. I’d kill to get Gable Steveson in MMA only because I think heavyweight needs a real fresh, exciting, young prospect.
 
Sterling personifies everything good and bad about men’s amateur wrestling
 
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