Thoughts on the IBJJF's new rules on takedown points?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Title Fight Productions, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    Thoughts, positive move or negative?



    Any other rule changes you like or not, feel free to bring them up.
     
  2. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    As someone who likes Sumi Gaeshi, Tomoe Nage and occasionally Uki Waza (especially against bent over wrestling stances) this is good for me - less chance of bad calls from referees who aren't too familiar with sutemi-waza.
     
  3. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    I feel like you're speaking Japanese............oh wait.:icon_chee
     
  4. Discipulus

    Discipulus Black Belt

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    Care to explain how it helps specifically for sacrifice throws? I don't follow.
     
  5. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    because someone could use sumi gaeshi and because their back touches the ground an inexperienced ref, could score a takedown for the person getting thrown
     
  6. yodaman

    yodaman Brown Belt

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    Not calling it a takedown for the other guy due to momentary bottom position is my guess.
     
  7. KJGould

    KJGould Silver Belt

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    I would imagine the trouble lies with the definition of "stabilise".
     
  8. Discipulus

    Discipulus Black Belt

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    I see. I couldn't imagine that happening, but I've never competed, so haven't had the chance to hate a referee for such a bad call. :)

    So the bonus lies in the fact that you won't be called for being taken down rather than any advantage sacrifice throws present in terms of stabilizing the opponent?

    Edit: madgrappler, please post in this thread. How on earth does not awarding points for a useless takedown take BJJ further from combat relevance? I ask again, if you can't hold position after taking someone down, what use was your takedown, unless you were able to hurt them with a hard slam? You posted a video of judo newaza in the other thread, including examples of throws ending in submissions, and I don't see how that goes against my point. If you take someone down and can't control them, you don't get points. If you take someone down and immediately submit them, you are unaffected by that rule whatsoever. If you take someone down with the intention of immediately submitting them and they escape because you failed to stabilize them, then you end up in an inferior position for your risk, which reflects exactly the way that same scenario would play out in an actual combat situation. Explain, please.
     
  9. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    you don't have to sit their and hold, you can be active, let's say you takedown pass guard, and mount... as soon as you stabilise the mount (3 seconds) you will get 2 for TD, 3 for pass and 4 for mount.
     
  10. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    This is sounding better to me.
     
  11. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    Your back touches the ground first with a sacrifice throw, generally. A bad ref could call it for the other guy, but the three second rule negates the possibility (provided you hit the throw, and even if you don't you could just stand up again or establish a guard within 3 seconds).

    If I initiate a sacrifice throw, for example Tomoe Nage, but it gets stuffed and I end up on my back a crappy ref might call it as a takedown for the other guy (when a stuffed sacrifice throw is really no worse than pulling open guard most of the time, not at all equivalent to being thrown).
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  12. Discipulus

    Discipulus Black Belt

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    Gotcha!
     
  13. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    Also judoka's who overthrow, will be penalized as they should, they attempt a throw and end up over-throwing and end up on their back, in Judo they would be rewarded for ippon, even though they didn't end up on top, just because their opponent's back touched the ground.
     
  14. KJGould

    KJGould Silver Belt

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    And stabilising a takedown on its own?

    The 3 second part is fine. FILA Grappling has that rule, but define it thus:

    A takedown point is awarded to any situation in which the action starts standing and finishes on the
    ground and either grappler manages to maintain top position for 3 seconds.

    Also a note on guard pulling:

    Situations of guard pulling:
     Jumping or sitting into guard from a standing position with contact and with a deliberate attempt
    of a submission or reversal will not be penalized by a caution and will not award 1 point to the
    opponent.
    
    Jumping or sitting into guard from a standing position with contact and without a deliberate
    attempt of a submission or reversal will not be penalized by a caution and will award 1 point to
    the opponent.

    So if you're going for flying subs, or actual sacrifice throws, you won't have a point scored against you. A guard pull to bring it to the mat and stall or start neutral, will.
     
  15. Vitamin C

    Vitamin C Black Belt

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    It makes sense to me. You don't get any other points until a 3-count, why not takedowns as well.
     
  16. Discipulus

    Discipulus Black Belt

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    Also makes sense. I remember seeing Stun Gun roll himself over after overcommitting to a throw. Didn't help him any. Probably a product of his Olympic background.
     
  17. KJGould

    KJGould Silver Belt

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    Is it IBJJF where you have to clear your head to score a takedown too? Because of claims the bottom guy is attempting a front choke while pulling guard or something?
     
  18. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    you can't score points while in a submission hold
     
  19. snoop dogg***

    snoop dogg*** Baby Heath goon$quad

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    wow kidnt know that, makes sense now. at us open i swept a guy who had a kimura on me. i was confused why i didnt get the points. thanks
     
  20. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    I can't believe the amount of people who don't read the rules. Even coaches who have no idea, yelling at the referree's.
     

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