Social Thoughts on "Heritage" Americans/Canadians?

[Nizam al-Mulk]

Thinking Biden was a leftist is tantamount to a total lack of understanding of the Overton window. Biden is VERY right of FDR, and has always been a career conservative Democrat. Calling him a leftist is a demonstration of being propagandized.

Until he got so senile he was not in charge really. A lot of stuff he did FDR would not have touched,

Holy shit you are completely politically illiterate

Because you said so. That is not enough.

 

[Deorum]

A lot of stuff he did FDR would not have touched

FDR certainly wouldn't have entertained any of the cringe pandering and extraneous clown world shit that occupies minds in modern society. He was kind of busy with substantive policy. You know, like taking the electrification of rural America from 10% to 90%. The shit is so unserious today that people believed a SCOTUS case over a fucking gay wedding cake was some sort of watershed moment.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

. The shit is so unserious today that people believed a SCOTUS case over a fucking gay wedding cake was some sort of watershed moment.

It was.

 

[Deorum]

It was.

No, it was fucking retarded.

Also: narrow ruling, procedural win, no precedent.

Incredibly Unimportant.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

No, it was fucking retarded.

Also: narrow ruling, procedural win, no precedent.

Incredibly Unimportant.

it signaled what the elf identified left will be.

 

[Sinister]

How can you do anything with "control of the houses" when you don't have control of it?



Yes, because hating Jews and Japanese was a very left thing to do.

There have been Presidents who have had control of the Houses who still didnt effectively wield power and when that happened, the opposition took notice.

Hating Jews and Japanese is about as left as supporting the genocide of Palestinians. When FDR finally intervened in WW2 at least it wasnt to supply the side doing the genocide.

 

[Rod1]

Oh, well, carry on. I don't really care about or have an opinion on that. What I do know is that FDR was the man in charge and responsible for enacting the landmark labor protections and laying the foundation of the social safety net in the United States. He imposed very progressive taxation that directly contributed to a more economically egalitarian country before being reversed by Reaganomics. He essentially built the modern middle class with the GI Bill. He also did a lot to regulate the financial sector and make housing more affordable. Not to mention leading the country through World War II. He's a colossus whose impact has spanned multiple generations.

Well yeah, he was America's Bismarck and had his legacy been continued America would be closer to Europe in terms of having some basic amount of public services.

His social views were very right wing though and its quite likely that Democrats like Biden would be pushing America towards more social services if they had the same level of political power.

 

[Rod1]

There have been Presidents who have had control of the Houses who still didnt effectively wield power and when that happened, the opposition took notice.

Ok but Biden wasn't one of those

Hating Jews and Japanese is about as left as supporting the genocide of Palestinians. When FDR finally intervened in WW2 at least it wasnt to supply the side doing the genocide.

FDR couldn't give two shits about the Holocaust if he did he wouldn't have blocked Jewish refugees from coming to America.

 

[Deorum]

Well yeah, he was America's Bismarck and had his legacy been continued America would be closer to Europe in terms of having some basic amount of public services.

His social views were very right wing though and its quite likely that Democrats like Biden would be pushing America towards more social services if they had the same level of political power.

I'm not sure how much weight it holds in the context of the 1930s, where the whole of society itself was staunchly conservative by any kind of modern standard. And compared to who? Definitely not a good handful of world leader contemporaries, or even a large faction of his own party. He tripled the number of black people within the federal workforce, desegregated the defense industry (EO 8802), and publicly declared poll taxes to be reprehensible. This guy was otherwise moving mountains in myriad policy areas that are quite frankly a lot more pressing and relevant than "social views" -- then, now, and forever.

 

[Sinister]

Ok but Biden wasn't one of those

FDR couldn't give two shits about the Holocaust if he did he wouldn't have blocked Jewish refugees from coming to America.

He didnt arm the Nazis, and go on a National tour discussing how righteous their movement was. Didnt stand in front of a camera and go: "I am a Nazi."

 

[Sinister]

I'm not sure how much weight it holds in the context of the 1930s, where the whole of society itself was staunchly conservative by any kind of modern standard. And compared to who? Definitely not a good handful of world leader contemporaries, or even a large faction of his own party. He tripled the number of black people within the federal workforce, desegregated the defense industry (EO 8802), and publicly declared poll taxes to be reprehensible. This guy was otherwise moving mountains in myriad policy areas that are quite frankly a lot more pressing and relevant than "social views" -- then, now, and forever.

Its just an argument born of this perception that if someone is harshly critical of most politicians, then once they praise a commonly well-regarded politician it reveals some sort of character flaw or a subscription to groupthink. You have a very high regard of Lincoln, and while I mostly agree I do feel he fell short of legend. We discussed that thoroughly here. Now I say that FDR was left of Biden and suddenly it's a big problem, because he did have problems in his Administration with regards to the subjects brought up. That's undeniable. The internment camps were horrible, as was denial of Jewish refugees from WWII. However, the stain of Gaza just cant be overlooked in comparison being as the slaughter is still happening and Biden did essentially nothing, which may have cost the entire party the Presidency, and handed the keys of the Nation over to the modern Mussolini.

Interestingly for FDR to have admitted those refugees he would have had to wield even MORE power. Never mind the paranoia that they might actually be Nazi spies, the Immigration Acts of 21 and 24 put strict quotas in place. And we were kind of in the middle of economic depression. And all that said we still took in more Jewish refugees than any other Nation did. But hey dont let that fact sway any opinions.

 

[Rod1]

I'm not sure how much weight it holds in the context of the 1930s, where the whole of society itself was staunchly conservative by any kind of modern standard.

Well yeah, America was staunchly racist back in the day so it was more likely for American presidents to be pretty racist themselves.

And compared to who?

Wendell Willkie

Definitely not a good handful of world leader contemporaries,

This isn't really true though America was particularly obssesed about race compared to the rest of the world, where language and religion were for the most part how ethnicities were divided.

or even a large faction of his own party. He tripled the number of black people within the federal workforce, desegregated the defense industry (EO 8802), and publicly declared poll taxes to be reprehensible. This guy was otherwise moving mountains in myriad policy areas that are quite frankly a lot more pressing and relevant than "social views" -- then, now, and forever.

Sure, but he also had deep personal racist beliefs who ended up influencing his decision to put Japanese people in concentration camps.

I mean the argument isn't even if FDR was a leftist, just that he was more leftist than Biden, Biden seems to be left both in social and economic issues, FDR was mostly on economic issues

 

[Rod1]

He didnt arm the Nazis, and go on a National tour discussing how righteous their movement was. Didnt stand in front of a camera and go: "I am a Nazi."

He just armed the USSR and gave them a free pass to enjoy all the land the Nazis promised to Stalin in the Molotov-Ribbentrop deal.

He also envisioned the USSR as a legitimate world police actor.

 

[Islam Imamate]

He just armed the USSR and gave them a free pass to enjoy all the land the Nazis promised to Stalin in the Molotov-Ribbentrop deal.

He also envisioned the USSR as a legitimate world police actor.

Firebombing of Tokyo happened under FDR's watch, to me that was a horrific atrocity.

 

[Deorum]

He also had deep personal racist beliefs who ended up influencing his decision to put Japanese people in concentration camps. I mean the argument isn't even if FDR was a leftist, just that he was more leftist than Biden, Biden seems to be left both in social and economic issues, FDR was mostly on economic issues

Yeah, that's a debate between you and @Sinister.

I don't care about his social views or what he thought about Jews. I actually find the spread 'em thin policy kind of humorous. In retrospect, it looks like he was pretty wise on that front and had good reason for it to be quite honest, Rodney. The Japanese internment camps are a noted and well recognized disgrace. Biden coulda and woulda, but we can only operate on what is and was. FDR was in straight-up Founder Mode, we'll never see the likes of this again. I imagine this is why Sinister holds him in high regard:

* Banking Act of 1933 (FDIC)
* Reforestation Relief Act of 1933 (CCC)
* National Housing Act of 1934 (FHA)
* Securities Exchange Act of 1934 (SEC)
* Wealth Tax Act of 1935 (Soak The Rich)
* Social Security Act of 1935 (Landmark)
* National Labor Relations Act of 1935 (Landmark)
* Emergency Relief Act of 1935 (WPA)
* Rural Electrification Act of 1936 (10% to 90%)
* Wealth Tax Act of 1937 (Soak Again)
* Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (NLRA Plus)
* Revenue Act of 1942 (95% Top Tax Rate)
* Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944 (Wealth Transfer)

 

[Rod1]

Yeah, that's a debate between you and @Sinister.

I don't care about his social views or what he thought about Jews. I actually find the spread 'em thin policy kind of humorous. In retrospect, it looks like he was pretty wise on that front and had good reason for it to be quite honest, Rodney. The Japanese internment camps are a noted and well recognized disgrace. Biden coulda and woulda, but we can only operate on what is and was. FDR was in straight-up Founder Mode, we'll never see the likes of this again. I imagine this is why Sinister holds him in high regard:

* Banking Act of 1933 (FDIC)
* Reforestation Relief Act of 1933 (CCC)
* National Housing Act of 1934 (FHA)
* Securities Exchange Act of 1934 (SEC)
* Wealth Tax Act of 1935 (Soak The Rich)
* Social Security Act of 1935 (Landmark)
* National Labor Relations Act of 1935 (Landmark)
* Emergency Relief Act of 1935 (WPA)
* Rural Electrification Act of 1936 (10% to 90%)
* Wealth Tax Act of 1937 (Soak Again)
* Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (NLRA Plus)
* Revenue Act of 1942 (95% Top Tax Rate)
* Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944 (Wealth Transfer)

Because nobody since him has enjoyed that level of popular support, also most of what he did was pretty normal for most world powers, he is called "founder mode" for just catching up for what Bismarck already showed was the path forward.

It will be the same when one of your presidents actually does something to fix healthcare and just brings you up to the level of the quasi-developed world where UHC is already a given, im sure you guys will think he will be the best Stateman of the XXI century

 

[Rod1]

That's undeniable. The internment camps were horrible, as was denial of Jewish refugees from WWII. However, the stain of Gaza just cant be overlooked in comparison being as the slaughter is still happening and Biden did essentially nothing, which may have cost the entire party the Presidency, and handed the keys of the Nation over to the modern Mussolini.

You talk about the "stain of Gaza" as if Biden had any sort of control over Israeli retaliation to Hamas, a group that mind you started that war, just like the Japanese started the war against the USA. And mind you WAAAY less civilians died during Pearl Harbor than during Hamas attack on Israel and FAR FAR FAR more Japanese civilians were indiscriminately killed under FDR than during Israeli retaliation

And if we are counting the crimes of allies, then come on man, Stalin just makes Israel crimes look amateur at best, something like Gaza wouldn't even register for him.

Interestingly for FDR to have admitted those refugees he would have had to wield even MORE power. Never mind the paranoia that they might actually be Nazi spies, the Immigration Acts of 21 and 24 put strict quotas in place. And we were kind of in the middle of economic depression. And all that said we still took in more Jewish refugees than any other Nation did. But hey dont let that fact sway any opinions.

Just pointing out that FDR didn't gave a shit about genocides, he opposed the Nazis because Nazis were threatening American allies and its ideals

 

[Sinister]

You talk about the "stain of Gaza" as if Biden had any sort of control over Israeli retaliation to Hamas, a group that mind you started that war, just like the Japanese started the war against the USA. And mind you WAAAY less civilians died during Pearl Harbor than during Hamas attack on Israel and FAR FAR FAR more Japanese civilians were indiscriminately killed under FDR than during Israeli retaliation

And if we are counting the crimes of allies, then come on man, Stalin just makes Israel crimes look amateur at best, something like Gaza wouldn't even register for him.





Just pointing out that FDR didn't gave a shit about genocides, he opposed the Nazis because Nazis were threatening American allies and its ideals

Hamas started that War? That's not a War. The attack by Hamas was a response to occupation, essentially an imprisoned and controlled population. For f*ck's sake next thing I know you're going to say the Haitians started the War with the French by fighting back against slavery. And yes we have A LOT of influence over what Israel can and cannot do in the region even with their nukes. They are OUR capitalist outpost.

WWII was an actual War, and I dont condone the actions of tha U.S. But if you're going to downplay current genocide to make a point I'm not sure I can take that seriously. The Pacific Theater was pretty brutal. The Palestinians arent enacting near the same Military capability that the Allies faced in WWII.

Who gives a f*ck about Stalin? We were comparing FDR and Biden. And I'm sorry but being a racist towards the Japanese (and let's throw in Jews for your argument's sake even though you have no counter-argument for the limitations on immigration of the day) is hardly comparable to openly supporting a genocide to the degree that it ushered-in US fascism as a response.

If fighting Nazis because they threatened American ideals is what FDR did then congratulations, you made my point for me.

 

[Rod1]

Who gives a f*ck about Stalin?

Who gives a fuck about Israel?

We were comparing FDR and Biden.

True and for some fucking reason you had to bring Israel to the mix, last time i checked Biden wasn't president of Israel

If fighting Nazis because they threatened American ideals is what FDR did then congratulations, you made my point for me.

Yup and to defeat the nazis FDR had no issue supporting a genocidal regime, which was apparently your whole point about why Biden's is right wing

 

[Deorum]

it signaled what the elf identified left will be.