Social Thoughts on "Heritage" Americans/Canadians?

[Ares Black]

Are the Democrat options in the room with us right now?

 

[Rod1]

 

[Rod1]

No.

I complimented certain Biden initiatives for being good policies, but I wouldnt lay that entirely at his feet same as I wouldn't lay all of the achievements of FDR's administration at his own feet. He appointed actual firebrands who weren't afraid to wield power. Biden did the same, but to a MUCH lesser degree. The honest fact is they're not comparable.

Yeah the internment camps were utterly horrible. That being said so was Biden's unapologetic Zionism and support for an actual genocide. Not to mention the unwillingness to not expand ICE, where we have internment camps right this second, internment camps that are about to expand. Not to mention the process of undermining the primary process, which blew up in their faces. In hindsight Biden's administration did the equivalent of a 50-yard run and then fumbling at the 1 yardline. And now we have fascism.

It's not about being an FDR "cultist"...its about the fact that transformative legislation happened as did MASSIVE expansion of the working class, unionization, economic equity, actual leftist principals. Biden's administration did some things, but nowhere near the same amount. That being said you should realize my in-depth criticism of US racism that has permeated every administration. The ONLY periods that significantly made strides against that where the Reconstruction Era, and the Civil Rights era...both of which ended up with a dead President coincidentally enough. But any administration that didnt address that deserves high criticism for it.

FDR had firm control of Senate and House though

 

[Ares Black]

Yeah those damn corporate Democrats will do anything to maintain the status quo.

 

[Sinister]

FDR had firm control of Senate and House though

it's not just about control of the Houses, it's about what is done with it. Remember all I initially said was that Biden is politically to the right of FDR, which is a fact.

When the Republicans called that Administration commies they actually had some ground to stand on despite it still being absurd. Conservatives/capitalists were so pissed off they tried for a coup then:

 

[Sinister]

Yeah those damn corporate Democrats will do anything to maintain the status quo.

I said this before, but this is the result of two capitalist parties.

Capitalist party A - wants a return to slave nation. You will own nothing and be grateful. Everything down to breathing is monetized. Tiered citizenship, rights are for those who can afford them IF they're of a favorable demographic, or work in the best interest of that demographic.

Capitalist party B - willing to entertain a modicum of collective bargaining in SOME sectors (my wife is in a Union, but it's illegal for them to strike), willing to consider healthcare reform, somewhat care about how comfortable the proletariat is while maintaining a shareholder economy while the working class drowns in debt.

I feel pretty sure the endgame of liberal democrats would end up looking a lot like Japan, just without the Nationalism/xenophobia:



Because at the end of the day, there's just no way corporate interests come before public interests except on single issues.

 

[Deorum]

FDR had firm control of Senate and House though

That's an understatement, lol. He had 75-80% majorities in both chambers and held them down over the course of multiple cycles. He's the most dominant American politician statesman in modern history, if not ever. But you also have to consider that he was the head of the party and top of the ticket, meaning a large part of the party's success was tied to his leadership, platform, and policies.

 

[Deorum]

Let's dial back the Biden slander and the FDR hype.

Biden passed unprecedented demand side stimulus that created a strong labor market against the advice of right wing liberal economists and got no credit from the left for this in the long run. He also smoothen the entry of migrants fleeing authoritarian regimes and failed states and again gets no credit from the left on this.

Meanwhile FDR interned over 100k Japanese-Americans and turned away Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi persecution.

He also had to get in bed with Jim Crow Democrats. But that's like, by default I guess. Was it worth it given the sort of landmark legislation that was passed? Yes. But it's also principally why over a million black WW2 veterans were fucked out of deriving benefit from the GI Bill that built the modern American middle class. They made damn sure that was going to be implemented on a state and local level.

 

[Deorum]

This absolute piece of shit right here also doesn't get a fraction of the historical criticism it truly deserves.



People think the current Robert courts is bad? Lmao. Imagine gutting the fucking privileges and immunities clause of the 14th Amendment within five years of ratification. And it still hasn't been restored to this day. It's why they have to work around it through "substantive due process" (a horseshit concept tbh). Here, have a cookie.

All of the below were legal and ideological companions of Dred Scott vs. Sandford (1857), and likewise among the most atrocious rulings in the history of the Supreme Court; decisions so detrimental to the advancement of the country, to civil and constitutional rights, that they damn near render the entire institution itself a net negative for the United States. I mean, on the whole, it's been an incredibly poor (so-called) "Guardian of the Constitution" and even more shoddy at (allegedly) "protecting fundamental rights."

* Slaughterhouse Cases (1873)
* United States v. Cruikshank (1876)
* United States v. Reese (1876)
* Hall vs. DeCuir (1877)
* Civil Rights Cases (1883)
* Plessy v. Ferguson (1896)

The Radical Republicans didn't fail. The Supreme Court simply systematically dismantled everything they achieved to the highest degree that it possibly could.

 

[Sinister]

This absolute piece of shit right here also doesn't get a fraction of the historical criticism it truly deserves.



People think the current Robert courts is bad? Lmao. Imagine gutting the fucking privileges and immunities clause of the 14th Amendment within five years of ratification. And it still hasn't been restored to this day. It's why they have to work around it through "substantive due process" (a horseshit concept tbh). Here, have a cookie.

All of the below were legal and ideological companions of Dred Scott vs. Sandford (1857), and likewise among the most atrocious rulings in the history of the Supreme Court; decisions so detrimental to the advancement of the country, to civil and constitutional rights, that they damn near render the entire institution itself a net negative for the United States. I mean, on the whole, it's been an incredibly poor (so-called) "Guardian of the Constitution" and even more shoddy at (allegedly) "protecting fundamental rights."

* Slaughterhouse Cases (1873)
* United States v. Cruikshank (1876)
* United States v. Reese (1876)
* Hall vs. DeCuir (1877)
* Civil Rights Cases (1883)
* Plessy v. Ferguson (1896)

The Radical Republicans didn't fail. The Supreme Court simply systematically dismantled everything they achieved to the highest degree that it possibly could.

I still can't get over THEM deciding that judicial review was even a thing. It seems like endowing themselves with that power almost had a very specific overall purpose. Like cementing policy derived from certain ideologies.

 

[Islam Imamate]

That's an understatement, lol. He had 75-80% majorities in both chambers and held them down over the course of multiple cycles. He's the most dominant American politician statesman in modern history, if not ever. But you also have to consider that he was the head of the party and top of the ticket, meaning a large part of the party's success was tied to his leadership, platform, and policies.

I would never deny his stature but as you point out it's a little easier to do ambitious legislating with those margins. LBJ is another, people think it's because he bullied people in person and not that he commanded strong majorities and was a legendary Senator before becoming POTUS.

He also had to get in bed with Jim Crow Democrats. But that's like, by default I guess. Was it worth it given the sort of landmark legislation that was passed? Yes. But it's also principally why over a million black WW2 veterans were fucked out of deriving benefit from the GI Bill that built the modern American middle class. They made damn sure that was going to be implemented on a state and local level.

FDR was a generational leader but I do think his reputation doesn't take into account some of these failings. In that case you're referring to it was kind of a Faustian bargain even if an odious one. But my understanding is that FDR had a personal prejudice towards the Japanese and that this played no small part in how his executive order was carried out.

 

[Deorum]

I would never deny his stature but as you point out it's a little easier to do ambitious legislating with those margins. LBJ is another, people think it's because he bullied people in person and not that he commanded strong majorities and was a legendary Senator before becoming POTUS.

FDR was a generational leader but I do think his reputation doesn't take into account some of these failings. In that case you're referring to it was kind of a Faustian bargain even if an odious one. But my understanding is that FDR had a personal prejudice towards the Japanese and that this played no small part in how his executive order was carried out.

Yeah, that's just how it goes when allocating achievements and determining who gets the lion's share of the credit for them within our Constitutional framework. You know I believe Lincoln is a Top 3 POTUS of All-Time even without a civil war to fight, a union to preserve, or the institution of slavery to be abolished. He doesn't even need them on his CV. The great irony is that the biggest legislative roadblocks to enacting utterly monumental, nation transforming shit like the Homestead Act, Land Grant College Act, and Pacific Railway Act(s) was the South. So, they kind of did the country a huge favor when they decided to secede, and then he fucked them up anyway and took ALL of the glory. Muahaha!

 

[Deorum]

 

[Sinister]

It's so hilarious how the fascists have never forgiven FDR for being as aggressive as he was, and as taunting as he was. I'm sure they thought Jim Crow crushed the spirit of social progressivism in full. And yet the Yarvinists worship his methods. Lol

Dude straight broke their brains for a few generations.

 

[Frank_Drebin]

Whiteness doesnt exists.

sir, the left was screaming in our faces during the george floyd era that this is whiteness (and still believe it)

 

[Deorum]

It's so hilarious how the fascists have never forgiven FDR for being as aggressive as he was, and as taunting as he was. I'm sure they thought Jim Crow crushed the spirit of social progressivism in full. And yet the Yarvinists worship his methods. Lol

Dude straight broke their brains for a few generations.

The Making America thread was originally going to be a "50 For 250" thread to split and parse out the 25 greatest moments in American history (including charters, amendments, treaties, acts of congress, court rulings, etc)...and the 25 worst. But given just how much I actually wrote in that OP, I scrapped that idea. I'm not writing 50 fucking paragraphs in one damn post, lol. In any case, FDR would likely bear direct responsibility for around 15-20% of the best. The Worst? I'm not sure, but all of these come directly to mind as very serious contenders just off the top of my head.

1789: Federal Judiciary Act (lol)
1798: Alien & Sedition Acts
1803: Marbury vs. Madison
1807: Insurrection Act
1830: Indian Removal Act
1850: Fugitive Slave Act
1854: Nebraska-Kansas Act
1857: Dred Scott vs. Sandford
1873: Slaughterhouse Cases
1876: Cruikshank vs. United States
1882: Chinese Exclusion Act
1883: Civil Rights Cases
1887: Dawes Act
1896: Plessy vs. Ferguson
1917: Espionage & Sedition Acts
1944: Korematsu vs. United States
1964: Gulf of Tonkin Resolution
1981: Reagan Supply Side Shite (ERTA)
1986: Reagan Supply Side Shite (TRA)
2001: Patriot Act
2002: AUMF Against Iraq
2010: Citizens United vs. FEC

Oh, yeah. SCOTUS gets nothing from me on "best moments". Not even Brown vs. Board of Education. Why should we celebrate a shitty court for correcting it's own colossal fuck ups from 58 years earlier? The same thing with its "selective incorporation" doctrine, where the Bill of Rights has been gradually applied to and enforceable against the states. Motherfucker, that is the 14th Amendment. It was what Madison wanted in the first fucking place but had to compromise with total cans and so called "Framers" about. Holy Crap. GOD DAMN, they're awful.

 

[Rod1]

it's not just about control of the Houses, it's about what is done with it.

How can you do anything with "control of the houses" when you don't have control of it?

Remember all I initially said was that Biden is politically to the right of FDR, which is a fact.

Yes, because hating Jews and Japanese was a very left thing to do.

 

[Deorum]

Yes, because hating Jews and Japanese was a very left thing to do.

One of those matters a lot due to Executive Order 9006, and the other is blah. Neither of them are ultimately going to matter to FDR fans because the Pros outweigh the Cons to an extraordinary degree. It's sort of similar to the idea of someone presenting me with a quote from TR on Native Americans. I will tell you straight-up that I don't give a single fuck. Not because it's right or because I agree with it, his achievements (and what they mean to me) simply eclipse feels and opinions. I see this posted a lot around the interwebs:

"I don't go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn't like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth."



From 1886, when he was 27 y/o Dakota cattle rancher. But I virtually never see this one from nearly two decades later at the Grand Canyon when he was actually the sitting President of the United States. As if people are frozen in time, and not allowed to evolve or modify their views over the course of a lifetime. Humans Be Flawed. Each and Every Single One.

"In my regiment, I had a good many Indians. They were good enough to fight and to die, and they are good enough to have me treat them exactly as squarely as any white man."

 

[Rod1]

One of those matters a lot due to Executive Order 9006, and the other is blah. Neither of them are ultimately going to matter to FDR fans because the Pros outweigh the Cons to an extraordinary degree. It's sort of similar to the idea of someone presenting me with a quote from TR on Native Americans. I will tell you straight-up that I don't give a single fuck. Not because it's right or because I agree with it, his achievements (and what they mean to me) simply eclipse feels and opinions. I see this posted a lot around the interwebs:

"I don't go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn't like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth."



From 1886, when he was 27 y/o Dakota cattle rancher. But I virtually never see this one from nearly two decades later at the Grand Canyon when he was actually the sitting President of the United States. As if people are frozen in time, and not allowed to evolve or modify their views over the course of a lifetime. Humans Be Flawed. Each and Every Single One.

"In my regiment, I had a good many Indians. They were good enough to fight and to die, and they are good enough to have me treat them exactly as squarely as any white man."

Im not saying its right or wrong merely that the notion that FDR was on the left of Biden is ridiculous.

 

[Deorum]

Im not saying its right or wrong merely that the notion that FDR was on the left of Biden is ridiculous.

Oh, well, carry on. I don't really care about or have an opinion on that. What I do know is that FDR was the man in charge and responsible for enacting the landmark labor protections and laying the foundation of the social safety net in the United States. He imposed very progressive taxation that directly contributed to a more economically egalitarian country before being reversed by Reaganomics. He essentially built the modern middle class with the GI Bill. He also did a lot to regulate the financial sector and make housing more affordable. Not to mention leading the country through World War II. He's a colossus whose impact has spanned multiple generations.