Social Thoughts on "Heritage" Americans/Canadians?

[Sinister]

Being an American, I don’t like the idea of some Americans inherently being “better” than others based on ethnicity/race. To me you have to have a pretty shitty life to even care about that aspect.

I don’t personally think lesser of people here on work visas or illegally, but I’d certainly put the needs of actual American citizens WELL above them.

In America, Americans should be > than anyone else.. otherwise, what is the point of having a country?

Top part is pretty good, bottom part strikes me as a sentiment that reminds me of someone who says their adopted children could never mean as much to them as their own children. Teired regard or citizenship is not the purpose of a Country. Check out the work of Thaddeus Stevens and John Bingham, guys buried in American History, for more on that. These are the men whose work this SCOTUS is doing everything they can to reverse.

 

[Siver!]

No it does not. The perspectives in the arts are more narrow than ever and megablockbusters took over.

They very definitely aren't.

I'd suggest that this opinion indicates a very narrow view and very limited experience.

Now if you want to talk about how boring it is that, say, Marvel Superheroes have dominated the Summer blockbuster scene, sure, those films are boring as tar and absolute cookie-cutter dross. But yes, they are also "the same thing on repeat", and it makes a lot of people happy.

Beyond the headliners, culture and the media couldn't be any more divergent. It's even happening at a mainstream level. The Jordan Peele films couldn't have existed 30 years ago. The idea of a Korean film winning the Oscars would have been laughable even 20 years ago. The closest you're probably getting is Slumdog Millionaire, which is most definitely not an Asian film. It's a British film. Before that? Even whiter, even more Western.

There's a bunch of horror novels out there with an LGBTQ focus. That's new.

If you haven't noticed, you're not trying.

If you have a problem with the fact they exist, you're boring.

If they just aren't your bag, at least acknowledge these things exist now.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

That is not an arguement.

Sure it is not. if you have been in a coma for a few decades.

 

[Andy Capp]

Sure it is not. if you have been in a coma for a few decades.

You said,

The difference is i can defend mine.

but

In what universe would DEI be about fairness? It something that came out of current academia and has almost no public support.

is not a defense. It's more subjective mewling and like your earlier post, devoid of factual foundation.

 

[USA!USA!]

Top part is pretty good, bottom part strikes me as a sentiment that reminds me of someone who says their adopted children could never mean as much to them as their own children.

If I adopted a child, it would become my own. Non-citizens are not America's children. They are neighbors visiting.

I don't think lesser of them as humans, but as I said.. what is the purpose of a country if it does not put its own citizens first? Isn't that the fundamental purpose and duty of government? I'd expect the same from their own countries.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

They very definitely aren't.

I'd suggest that this opinion indicates a very narrow view and very limited experience.

Now if you want to talk about how boring it is that, say, Marvel Superheroes have dominated the Summer blockbuster scene, sure, those films are boring as tar and absolute cookie-cutter dross. But yes, they are also "the same thing on repeat", and it makes a lot of people happy.

Beyond the headliners, culture and the media couldn't be any more divergent. It's even happening at a mainstream level. The Jordan Peele films couldn't have existed 30 years ago. The idea of a Korean film winning the Oscars would have been laughable even 20 years ago. The closest you're probably getting is Slumdog Millionaire, which is most definitely not an Asian film. It's a British film. Before that? Even whiter, even more Western.

There's a bunch of horror novels out there with an LGBTQ focus. That's new.

If you haven't noticed, you're not trying.

If you have a problem with the fact they exist, you're boring.

If they just aren't your bag, at least acknowledge these things exist now.

The Peele movies certainly could have existed 30 years ago. 20 years ago blockbusters got Oscars and there were few foreign blockbusters popular enough in the US and best foreign movie is a long established category.
You mean the Oscars reflected the demographics of the USA...

So the story dynamics are remade with gya people. Wow, so original, so much storytelling diversity...

There are less mid budget movies made, erotic thrillers are dead, dtv is shrinking.

I'd suggest that your opinion indicates a very narrow view and very limited experience.

Your arguments don't make sense. Perspectives of Arts are more narrow now largely due to capitalism and corporatization of Arts. Actual artists pushing the envelops of societal comfort are being villified by the regime the same as they always are.

People don't just want the same thing on repeat. We condition society to be allergic to change. The conditioning of consumerism which has you choosing from 27 types of ketchup that all look only slightly different and are all made by rhe same 3 companies. But that's not a grass roots occurrence, and that's how culture dies.

Leftists just want different cultures to be allowed to exist so long as they do not aggress upon others. College is not significant of culture. Almost every right wing politician who sells you the idea that it is all have College educations themselves. They just tell you that sh*t because they'd prefer you not be as educated as they are. It makes you easier to convince of their bullsh*t, so you cede power to them and hope they represent you, when their actual goal is just to hold that power.

Someone like me, I want you educated, informed, engaged. And if you have a difference of view that DOES make sense, let's hear it.

But hey I'm the woke radical whatever whatever.

Trump regime is like 1 year old. i would hold the horse.

People want the same things on repeat. Look at the biggest blockbuster movies now or 1961. I fail to see how some near monopolies in certain industries kill culture.

The leadership part of the left would have no problem erasing southern culture. Yes it is. What prevents me from being just as educated as they are? What do they know that i cannot learn on my own?

What if my education is not formal?

 

[Siver!]

The Peele movies certainly could have existed 30 years ago. 20 years ago blockbusters got Oscars and there were few foreign blockbusters popular enough in the US and best foreign movie is a long established category.
You mean the Oscars reflected the demographics of the USA...

So the story dynamics are remade with gya people. Wow, so original, so much storytelling diversity...

There are less mid budget movies made, erotic thrillers are dead, dtv is shrinking.

I'd suggest that your opinion indicates a very narrow view and very limited experience.

I don't know what "gya" means, so I'll leave that aside.

I'm not concerned about "less mid budget films" as there are significantly more films made now than in, say, 2000. Significantly more. I think it was double the amount by something like 2020, and movies are generally easier to make now.

One of the things that makes me laugh is when people say stuff like "music isn't what it was", and I feel this is a retread about films. It's a retarded take, mate, because usually what people mean when they say "music isn't as good" is that they're no longer being led by the nose to music they actually like - but it's all out there, with god damn bells on. I've heard metalheads say "it was better in the 80's/90's", and I'm like WTF are you talking about? Vastly more people have opportunies to platform their art, be it music, film, actual art, and while a supposed downside would be that it doesn't get as much marketing or doesn't make it towards 'mid-budget'-level, who gives a fuck?

If you want to find it, it's out there. Books, fiction or non-fiction, it's there to be discovered. Music, whatever genre, there's far more of it than ever before. Film, again, far more films being produced than ever before.

These criticisms, in my opinion, stem from an inability to navigate the platforms rather than any actual loss of quality or stagnation or lack of diversity, these claims being complete and utter bullshit. You even said yourself "the Oscars reflected the demographics of the USA", acknowledging the fact we've moved well past that now. You even have people whinging Hollywood is dying, well might that be diversification at play?

If your focus is on high or mid budget film or music or art or literature, you're missing what's really happening presumably because you're expecting to be told what you'll like. Fuck that.

 

[Sinister]

If I adopted a child, it would become my own. Non-citizens are not America's children. They are neighbors visiting.

I don't think lesser of them as humans, but as I said.. what is the purpose of a country if it does not put its own citizens first? Isn't that the fundamental purpose and duty of government? I'd expect the same from their own countries.

Again, though, the purpose of citizenship is not to tier society. There's a reason the men I named pushed for due process for all, and the reason that from their era onward the Constitional rights granted to citizens also applies to non-citizens. That's not to say there arent privileges to being a long-term citizen but that should only be privileges of things like commerce.

As an example, a guy I'm close to works in the medical field. He went down to Argentina during covid to help them. During that time he got malaria pretty bad and had to go to the Hospital. He tried to give them his insurance card and they told him no. They said he was there to help them, help their people, so they're going to take care of him. He got the healthcare he needed, paid for by the State.

The purpose and duty of Government should be to protect people within its jurisdiction, its recognized territory. Not decide who is more important than whomever else.

 

[Sinister]

I don't know what "gya" means, so I'll leave that aside.

I'm not concerned about "less mid budget films" as there are significantly more films made now than in, say, 2000. Significantly more. I think it was double the amount by something like 2020, and movies are generally easier to make now.

One of the things that makes me laugh is when people say stuff like "music isn't what it was", and I feel this is a retread about films. It's a retarded take, mate, because usually what people mean when they say "music isn't as good" is that they're no longer being led by the nose to music they actually like - but it's all out there, with god damn bells on. I've heard metalheads say "it was better in the 80's/90's", and I'm like WTF are you talking about? Vastly more people have opportunies to platform their art, be it music, film, actual art, and while a supposed downside would be that it doesn't get as much marketing or doesn't make it towards 'mid-budget'-level, who gives a fuck?

If you want to find it, it's out there. Books, fiction or non-fiction, it's there to be discovered. Music, whatever genre, there's far more of it than ever before. Film, again, far more films being produced than ever before.

These criticisms, in my opinion, stem from an inability to navigate the platforms rather than any actual loss of quality or stagnation or lack of diversity, these claims being complete and utter bullshit. You even said yourself "the Oscars reflected the demographics of the USA", acknowledging the fact we've moved well past that now. You even have people whinging Hollywood is dying, well might that be diversification at play?

If your focus is on high or mid budget film or music or art or literature, you're missing what's really happening presumably because you're expecting to be told what you'll like. Fuck that.

A commentator I like once said that nostalgia is a pathway to fascism. I felt a bit conflicted when he said it because I feel nostalgia towards a lot of things, but the moment it makes you start to resent the present...

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

I don't know what "gya" means, so I'll leave that aside.

I'm not concerned about "less mid budget films" as there are significantly more films made now than in, say, 2000. Significantly more. I think it was double the amount by something like 2020, and movies are generally easier to make now.

One of the things that makes me laugh is when people say stuff like "music isn't what it was", and I feel this is a retread about films. It's a retarded take, mate, because usually what people mean when they say "music isn't as good" is that they're no longer being led by the nose to music they actually like - but it's all out there, with god damn bells on. I've heard metalheads say "it was better in the 80's/90's", and I'm like WTF are you talking about? Vastly more people have opportunies to platform their art, be it music, film, actual art, and while a supposed downside would be that it doesn't get as much marketing or doesn't make it towards 'mid-budget'-level, who gives a fuck?

If you want to find it, it's out there. Books, fiction or non-fiction, it's there to be discovered. Music, whatever genre, there's far more of it than ever before. Film, again, far more films being produced than ever before.

These criticisms, in my opinion, stem from an inability to navigate the platforms rather than any actual loss of quality or stagnation or lack of diversity, these claims being complete and utter bullshit. You even said yourself "the Oscars reflected the demographics of the USA", acknowledging the fact we've moved well past that now. You even have people whinging Hollywood is dying, well might that be diversification at play?

If your focus is on high or mid budget film or music or art or literature, you're missing what's really happening presumably because you're expecting to be told what you'll like. Fuck that.

The first movie is easier to make. CGI did not get much cheaper or the budgets of marvel movies would not be that crazy. More movies does not equal more decent budgeted movies.

More people can platform less people can make money and new music does worse on the charts against old music compared to the past.

What makes you think we moved past that? Asians and South Americans can become white. Why exactly can a melanin diverse industry not be stagnant?

Hollywood is dying and their ideological inbreeding is to blame. The diversity push made by them is part of that.

Look up my posts i have a diverse taste in movies. I am not expecting to be told what to like,

 

[Siver!]

The first movie is easier to make. CGI did not get much cheaper or the budgets of marvel movies would not be that crazy. More movies does not equal more decent budgeted movies.

More people can platform less people can make money and new music does worse on the charts against old music compared to the past.

What makes you think we moved past that? Asians and South Americans can become white. Why exactly can a melanin diverse industry not be stagnant?

Hollywood is dying and their ideological inbreeding is to blame. The diversity push made by them is part of that.

Look up my posts i have a diverse taste in movies. I am not expecting to be told what to like,

I'm glad you have diverse taste in movies, but I'd really have to take a look at your collection to understand why you're concluding there's no real diversity.

Hollywood is dying because anyone can do it now, and there's no real need to rely on getting the approval of a small group of old farts to make a film anymore. Similarly across the arts, you don't have to appeal to a minimal number of dinosaurs to get your break.

I find it ironic that talent shows even exist at this point, but I'm glad they're there as they filter out all the young "aspiring" lazy bastards looking to hitch a ride on a catapult rather than, you know, actually doing some work and grinding away. Now more than ever, there is no reason to try and take the tired old routes to stardom.

I agree on your first two lines in so far as old stuff will still always feel a bigger part of the zeitgeist than the new stuff, and that's fine, old people were spoonfed a rather minimal choice of what to like, and they made their choices already. The younger generations, way less so. They might still revert to type by following whatever's promoted on a computer game or TikTok or some bullshit, but there's really no need for anyone to be limited anymore.

'Budget' means naff all. Who cares how much something cost? That's what I'm talking about when I say 'being told what to like' because often budget is just cheap (CGI) tricks and marketing and little else.

 

[Sinister]

The Peele movies certainly could have existed 30 years ago. 20 years ago blockbusters got Oscars and there were few foreign blockbusters popular enough in the US and best foreign movie is a long established category.
You mean the Oscars reflected the demographics of the USA...

So the story dynamics are remade with gya people. Wow, so original, so much storytelling diversity...

There are less mid budget movies made, erotic thrillers are dead, dtv is shrinking.

I'd suggest that your opinion indicates a very narrow view and very limited experience.


Trump regime is like 1 year old. i would hold the horse.

People want the same things on repeat. Look at the biggest blockbuster movies now or 1961. I fail to see how some near monopolies in certain industries kill culture.

The leadership part of the left would have no problem erasing southern culture. Yes it is. What prevents me from being just as educated as they are? What do they know that i cannot learn on my own?

What if my education is not formal?

The Trump regime is not 1 year old. It's about to turn 10. But vilifying artists isnt party-specific, its ideology specific. I can post hearings from the 80's when Tipper Gore was in a tizzy about everything and Satanic Panic was in full swing. Hell there were gigantic movies made ABOUT how dancing was evil when I was a kid.

Monopolies ALWAYS kill culture. That's part of their job. Wal-Mart kills the Mom and Pop shops. The mall killed general stores, and the big box book stores killed small book stores with their bulk buying and coffee shops, then Amazon came along and killed them. The death of American culture is not out gay or trans characters in TV shows, or a mixed couple casually appearing in a movie so that its not a movie ABOUT their "taboo" relationship, the death of American culture is all the culture being wiped from your town. Every restaurant being a Denny's or iHOP. Every gas station being an Exxon, Dollar Generals.

I'm a leftist and I'm Southern. What are you talking about? As a racially mixed kid the only place I ever got sh*t for being multi-ethnic and Southern at the same time WAS the South. No one wants to erase "Southern Culture" unless you're specifically referring to the continuation of Confederate sentiment, and that sh*t SHOULD have been erased the second those traitors lost.

 

[Siver!]

The Trump regime is not 1 year old. It's about to turn 10. But vilifying artists isnt party-specific, its ideology specific. I can post hearings from the 80's when Tipper Gore was in a tizzy about everything and Satanic Panic was in full swing. Hell there were gigantic movies made ABOUT how dancing was evil when I was a kid.

Monopolies ALWAYS kill culture. That's part of their job. Wal-Mart kills the Mom and Pop shops. The mall killed general stores, and the big box book stores killed small book stores with their bulk buying and coffee shops, then Amazon came along and killed them. The death of American culture is not out gay or trans characters in TV shows, or a mixed couple casually appearing in a movie so that its not a movie ABOUT their "taboo" relationship, the death of American culture is all the culture being wiped from your town. Every restaurant being a Denny's or iHOP. Every gas station being an Exxon, Dollar Generals.

I'm a leftist and I'm Southern. What are you talking about? As a racially mixed kid the only place I ever got sh*t for being multi-ethnic and Southern at the same time WAS the South. No one wants to erase "Southern Culture" unless you're specifically referring to the continuation of Confederate sentiment, and that sh*t SHOULD have been erased the second those traitors lost.

You're right, monopolies seek homogeny.

How could they not?

If everyone's all of one mind, not interested in the 'other', then they're all a potential customer.

I think that's changed ever-so-slightly these days where more companies and businesses have decided you can only have one half or the other and gone full political left-right, but it's going to prove a retarded, short-term move.

The backlash against pervasive politics is very close, and rightly so. The right have actually done some good work on that, but they'll still be caught out when divisive politics is pushed off the table altogether.

 

[USA!USA!]

Again, though, the purpose of citizenship is not to tier society.

I disagree. It should. Governments have a primary duty to their own citizens. It also prioritizes citizenship, which should be a privilege that immigrants strive for. It should be meaningful.

That is not to say I think a government should turn its back on non-citizens. If they can help, they should. Once its own citizens are taken care of.

Non-citizens should never take precedent over citizens. That ruins the entire social contract. Ensure basic fundamental rights that align with America's ideals, but nothing beyond. Provide pathways to legal citizenship - it should be something they strive for.

 

[Sinister]

I disagree. It should. Governments have a primary duty to their own citizens. It also prioritizes citizenship, which should be a privilege that immigrants strive for. It should be meaningful.

That is not to say I think a government should turn its back on non-citizens. If they can help, they should. Once its own citizens are taken care of.

Non-citizens should never take precedent over citizens. That ruins the entire social contract. Ensure basic fundamental rights that align with America's ideals, but nothing beyond. Provide pathways to legal citizenship - it should be something they strive for.

Well then you simply agree with tiered citizenship, which then gives birth to the erosion of rights to maintain the tiers.

You areguing for heirachical thinking, I'm saying there's not really a need for that. I dont see what we lose by treating all people who live within our borders equally (and neither did the Radical Republicans of the Civil War era), all I see is a definitive Avenue of maintaining a power structure that got us where we are now. Which is bold attempts to return to the First Republic

 

[USA!USA!]

I'm saying there's not really a need for that. I dont see what we lose by treating all people who live within our borders equally (and neither did the Radical Republicans of the Civil War era), all I see is a definitive Avenue of maintaining a power structure that got us where we are now. Which is bold attempts to return to the First Republic

There is a need for it because we live in reality and there are limited resources and time. I'd fully agree with you if the government was able to accomplish everything they should - but that is not reality. It should be tiered because of how incapable they are.

 

[Sinister]

There is a need for it because we live in reality and there are limited resources and time. I'd fully agree with you if the government was able to accomplish everything they should - but that is not reality. It should be tiered because of how incapable they are.

Now we're getting somewhere.

Limited resources is not a Nation-specific problem. Plenty of Nations face that exact same problem, but one thing most Nations have in common is resource hoarding, an upper caste of citizenry who always desire control of those resources, even if those resources are people.

Look how we live our lives. If you're of the working class so much of your money goes to paying the non-working class so you can stay out of jail that it becomes nearly impossible to move up a single economic class. And most people who accomplish that do so because of I infrastructure provided by family and/or friends. They have help. Or they run a huge scam and don't end up going to jail. We call these "American success stories." But we are conditioned to look down on people who even just making it to an actual working working class is a huge accomplishment, and they almost invariably come from places with worse resource exploitation than we do, or places where we were the exploiters, or places we embargoed because they made our exploitation illegal.

They're not different from us, and dont deserve less rights than we have. If we suggest that they are and they do, where does that end? Before the Civil War the United States was a functioning ethno-State which was even admired by the Nazis. The men who worked to pass the Reconstruction Amendments understood that if even one person in the United States is denied their rights, then anyone could be. I'm not necessarily talking about how we divvy up the stuff, I'm saying either we believe in liberty or we dont. We believe all men (and women) are created equal or we dont. And if we do, then our policies need to reflect that. Being a Patriot shouldn't have anything to do with loving the Country, the Institutons, or some sacred paper, it should be about loving Americans, even if those Americans are just temporary.

 

[Siver!]

Now we're getting somewhere.

Limited resources is not a Nation-specific problem. Plenty of Nations face that exact same problem, but one thing most Nations have in common is resource hoarding, an upper caste of citizenry who always desire control of those resources, even if those resources are people.

Look how we live our lives. If you're of the working class so much of your money goes to paying the non-working class so you can stay out of jail that it becomes nearly impossible to move up a single economic class. And most people who accomplish that do so because of I infrastructure provided by family and/or friends. They have help. Or they run a huge scam and don't end up going to jail. We call these "American success stories." But we are conditioned to look down on people who even just making it to an actual working working class is a huge accomplishment, and they almost invariably come from places with worse resource exploitation than we do, or places where we were the exploiters, or places we embargoed because they made our exploitation illegal.

They're not different from us, and dont deserve less rights than we have. If we suggest that they are and they do, where does that end? Before the Civil War the United States was a functioning ethno-State which was even admired by the Nazis. The men who worked to pass the Reconstruction Amendments understood that if even one person in the United States is denied their rights, then anyone could be. I'm not necessarily talking about how we divvy up the stuff, I'm saying either we believe in liberty or we dont. We believe all men (and women) are created equal or we dont. And if we do, then our policies need to reflect that. Being a Patriot shouldn't have anything to do with loving the Country, the Institutons, or some sacred paper, it should be about loving Americans, even if those Americans are just temporary.

Well said.

The really sad thing is, those politicians that would seek to take away the rights of a section of society would just as quickly turn the focus on another subset of citizens - the poor, for example. The finger gets pointed at anyone that isn't the ruling class for a reason.

By all rights, treating foreign workers (legal foreign workers for argument's sake) as if they're secondary figures makes less sense than treating those with offshore bank accounts and/or who intend to leave the country as secondary - but I wouldn't advocate either, those who contribute and work to make any country better should be treated as equals.

 

[USA!USA!]

But we are conditioned to look down on people who even just making it to an actual working working class is a huge accomplishment, and they almost invariably come from places with worse resource exploitation than we do, or places where we were the exploiters, or places we embargoed because they made our exploitation illegal.

They're not different from us, and dont deserve less rights than we have.

I'm not looking down on anyone, especially not be because they are trying to "make it" - I am being practical. I have said a few times that non-citizens should not be ignored and that they are people just like you or I. If they need help, I am all for helping them. Not at the expense of citizens in need though. It's a pretty simple concept.

Illegal immigrants and non-citizens already don't have the same privileges as citizens.. So I am not asking for anything radical or out of left field that our legal system doesn't already do. I am re-affirming it.

 

[Sinister]

I'm not looking down on anyone, especially not be because they are trying to "make it" - I am being practical. I have said a few times that non-citizens should not be ignored and that they are people just like you or I. If they need help, I am all for helping them. Not at the expense of citizens in need though. It's a pretty simple concept.

Illegal immigrants and non-citizens already don't have the same privileges as citizens.. So I am not asking for anything radical or out of left field that our legal system doesn't already do. I am re-affirming it.

Listen to what you're saying though:

You KNOW the system has inequities, you're just re-affirming them.

And I'm not disagreeing with the first half of that statement, I'm just going to consciously choose to NOT re-affirm it, in the same sense that the Radical Republicans didnt when they were faced with the same thought process. The 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments weren't even their goal. Their goal was a new Constitution that actually held true to the ideas of what the United States was pretending to be (so long as the citizens were "free white persons" as the Naturalization Act of 1790 stated).

Help always costs someone something. I just had a conversation with a very good friend who was telling me how usury was once viewed by the Church. That usury was written about the way we would write about murder. We dont help people because its cost efficient. We do it to make the World a better place. Besides, we have MORE than enough wealth to pull this off. Scarcity is another scam levied upon us by those with more than they could ever use. Those who measure their status by the sh*t they own or power they have. I measure worth by something different:





I believe it was Madison who once said that slavery was an evil indeed, but one that must have been tolerated to preserve the Union. The Union represented the IDEA of what the United States was, the image the Patriot Nationalists were putting forth. But it was a lie. The French knew this and eventually called their bluff. And the men who stood against that lie are men we've erased from History in large part. Remember there wasnt a such thing as an "illegal immigrant"...only immigrants. Desired and undesired. Our terms and processes now serve only to make that distinction easier. Joseph Edlow recently stated that there is no fundamental difference between a legal immigrant and an illegal immigrant if both can damage the Foundation of the Country. That's coded language. It was NEVER about the legality of immigrants. It's about who they don't want here.