Economy They tried Made in the USA. It was too expensive for their customers

[Yehudim]

I wish that were true but clearly it's not if even Nippon Steel's acquisition of US Steel was controversial.

If the argument was for friendshoring I would be on board but populists don't even want that, they think that Barbie dolls and pencils need to made in the USA.

I think that’s an apples to oranges comparison, I’m talking about manufactured goods, vs buyouts of large companies from foreign countries.

I’m not going to pretend to have an opinion on that buyout, but it WAS blocked by Biden.

 

[Hog-train]

We don’t need made in the USA, just not made by our enemies. Nobody is really bothered by made in Mexico, Vietnam, India.

Everybody wants to be patriotic until we have to pay for it.

This right here.

It will be cheaper to get from Vietnam and others now anyway.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I think that’s an apples to oranges comparison, I’m talking about manufactured goods, vs buyouts of large companies from foreign countries.

It's true even in the case of manufactured goods, Vance ran on the idea that millions of cheap appliances are not worth one American manufacturing job and Trump said maybe kids have too many dolls and pencils. It's the right wing version of "You'll own nothing and be happy"

I’m not going to pretend to have an opinion on that buyout, but it WAS blocked by Biden.

The buy out was a no brainer as evidenced by the dip in stock price after Biden blocked it, my understanding is that both firms are still trying to salvage the acquisition and have gone through with it in all but name.

Point being even friendshoring is bad from a populist POV and I suspect that's in part why Biden blocked it even though it was after the election. Maybe he was trying to deny Trump the opportunities to do so himself or maybe he was trying to salvage the image of the party after an electoral shellacking but either way it was dumb and shows how populism incentivizes bad economics.

 

[Versez]

who is buying 300 dollar dog beds?

I prefer buying 300$ worth of McDonald’s …

 

[Yehudim]

It's true even in the case of manufactured goods, Vance ran on the idea that millions of cheap appliances are not worth one American manufacturing job and Trump said maybe kids have too many dolls and pencils. It's the right wing version of "You'll own nothing and be happy"

The buy out was a no brainer as evidenced by the dip in stock price after Biden blocked it, my understanding is that both firms are still trying to salvage the acquisition and have gone through with it in all but name.

Point being even friendshoring is bad from a populist POV and I suspect that's in part why Biden blocked it even though it was after the election. Maybe he was trying to deny Trump the opportunities to do so himself or maybe he was trying to salvage the image of the party after an electoral shellacking but either way it was dumb and shows how populism incentivizes bad economics.

So when I speak in absolutes that I know are not true, and say "nobody is really bothered" of course somebody can point out that somebody is really bothered, but I am talking about the American consumer which comprises of the entire American population, not politicians who have to please rust belt states because they are disproportionately important in national elections. Vance, who is a non-entity without Trump, speaks to a certain portion of MAGA, but America is not MAGA, and while American's consistently say we want made in America goods, the evidence (our spending habits) proves that we really don't care.

Politicians just are not brave enough, or capable enough to articulate a better argument or try to come up with a better plan to revitalize American industry. One side thinks tax cuts are the only policy tool that matters, and the other side actually has initiative and ideas, but has pie in the sky baggage that are rejected by the average American and enables the other side to completely obstruct them.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yea as in race to the bottom by getting rid of blue collar jobs and making our citizens compete with people who work harder with a gun in their back for a bowl of rice a day

You think people in the third world are made to work at gunpoint? There are of course bad working conditions in poor countries, best example off the top of my head being the textile factory that burned down in Bangladesh, but for the most part these jobs are better than subsistence agriculture, the main alternative for them, so most people in these countries move to find these jobs.

Also gaslighting me . I'm from Detroit dude. I'm from the midwest dude. You can see the devastation off shoring free trade and globalization and automation caused to my homeland , and it hasn't even halfway ever recovered and it never will. You see Detroit memes all the time when some republican drone wants to blame that on democratic mayors...they are wrong about the cause but absolutely right that it does infact look like that.

I actually think Republicans are right there, mismanagement at the city level explains the decline of a lot of these cities. Corrupt political machines that funnel goodies to various factions like unions or other established interests.

I get it dude. You believe in neo liberalism and I think it's just about all been exposed for the bullshit scam it is. All I can say is that I hope ai does the same thing to where you live that nafta and globalization has done to us and I hope that there is some smarmy asshole around to tell you about how it's actually a good thing. But fuck what your eyes see or what you experience where you live here's this line on a graph !!! Line go up everything good !!

You can trivialize "Line go up" but countries that try the kind of voodoo economics that populists advocate for go down the drain. You'll be begging for "line goes up" if we actually have to live through the effects of these dumb policies.

I'm sick of this corporate dnc talking point.

Okay and I'm sick of the populist taking points that act like America has devolved into a third world country when in fact we were pulling further ahead of the competition.

Trumps trade war is retarded because it seems to have no real rhyme or reason and like all things republican they tend to act without ever having much of a plan in place for the what ifs and yhe actual what are we going to do. But we should for sure tariff the shit out of any country that pays peasant wages and we shouldn't be trading with hostile regimes that hate us at all.

I guess you must be a Biden voter then, what with his targeted tariffs and massive investment in American manufacturing.

 

[Islam Imamate]

So when I speak in absolutes that I know are not true, and say "nobody is really bothered" of course somebody can point out that somebody is really bothered, but I am talking about the American consumer which comprises of the entire American population, not politicians who have to please rust belt states because they are disproportionately important in national elections. Vance, who is a non-entity without Trump, speaks to a certain portion of MAGA, but America is not MAGA, and while American's consistently say we want made in America goods, the evidence (our spending habits) proves that we really don't care.

Politicians just are not brave enough, or capable enough to articulate a better argument or try to come up with a better plan to revitalize American industry. One side thinks tax cuts are the only policy tool that matters, and the other side actually has initiative and ideas, but has pie in the sky baggage that are rejected by the average American and enables the other side to completely obstruct them.

Sure but on that level no one cares about buying those goods from adversarial countries either, if American consumers can buy cheap Chinese goods then they will for the most part.

They might feel something is wrong with that but as long as they can they will. When they elect politicians to do something about it tends to be the case that the revolt is against free trade generally, not some nuanced demand for friendshoring.

 

[Sinister]

You think people in the third world are made to work at gunpoint? There are of course bad working conditions in poor countries, best example off the top of my head being the textile factory that burned down in Bangladesh, but for the most part these jobs are better than subsistence agriculture, the main alternative for them, so most people in these countries move to find these jobs.

I actually think Republicans are right there, mismanagement at the city level explains the decline of a lot of these cities. Corrupt political machines that funnel goodies to various factions like unions or other established interests.

You can trivialize "Line go up" but countries that try the kind of voodoo economics that populists advocate for go down the drain. You'll be begging for "line goes up" if we actually have to live through the effects of these dumb policies.

Okay and I'm sick of the populist taking points that act like America has devolved into a third world country when in fact we were pulling further ahead of the competition.

I guess you must be a Biden voter then, what with his targeted tariffs and massive investment in American manufacturing.

To be fair some Countries are forced to work. If they're under Military or dictatorial rule, they dont have much in the way of choices. In cases of Authoritarian Government corporations can pay them to subject the working class to whatever best suits them and only slightly keeps them off the radar of human rights organizations.

 

[Islam Imamate]

To be fair some Countries are forced to work. If they're under Military or dictatorial rule, they dont have much in the way of choices. In cases of Authoritarian Government corporations can pay them to subject the working class to whatever best suits them and only slightly keeps them off the radar of human rights organizations.

What country does that happen in? I've heard of something like that in North Korea with manual labor and a similar version with Cuban doctors but those are both communist pariah states, probably not what you had in mind.

 

[Yehudim]

Sure but on that level no one cares about buying those goods from adversarial countries either, if American consumers can buy cheap Chinese goods then they will for the most part.

They might feel something is wrong with that but as long as they can they will. When they elect politicians to do something about it tends to be the case that the revolt is against free trade generally, not some nuanced demand for friendshoring.

I’m a critic of America and the average American, but I do think that there can be some nuance that the American population will accept, but our politicians are just terrible (in large part because the average American is terrible)

I think the evidence to back it up is deep unpopularity with Trump’s decisions to attack allies and tariff the world, with his tanking approval ratings at that time.

I think American’s are truly open for business, just as long as you don’t take advantage of us. But as much as I berate politicians, it is hard to communicate nuance in this sound bite/Twitter clip environment. The ADHD brains of dying from diabetes retarded American’s can only take so much info beyond 8 seconds.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Note to Sherbros:

You might have problems keeping a girlfriend due to the human dog bed. Just a tip.

 

[Deleted member 592570]

Materials are cheaper overseas, labor is way cheaper overseas, and the required chips are likely designed and manufactured overseas.

How do you compensate for those three disadvantages?

This is one of those weird hills I've noticed you guys like to die on that doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Cotton was cheaper when we had slavery too. We banned slavery. We shouldn't be doing business with countries like China that have de facto slavery.

Also, we are kneecapping our industry w8th climate regulations and then doing business with countries like China and India that thumb their nose at climate regulations.

Stop doing business with them until they get their act together.

 

[ShadowRun]

Where will these poor dogs sleep now and what about their trans pups ? Literally Hitler.

 

[avenue94]

This is one of those weird hills I've noticed you guys like to die on that doesn't make a tone of sense to me.

Cotton was cheaper when we has slavery too. We banned slavery. We shouldn't be doing business with countries like China that have de facto slavery.

Also, we are oneecapping our industry w8th climate regulations and then doing bus9ness with countries like China and India that thumb their nose at climate regulations.

Stop doing business with them until they get their act together.

Most "cheap" labor in China isn't slavery or remotely comparable. There wages usually are above average and exceed rural labor rates.

Your cotton example is dumb. The price of it fell after slavery due to improved productivity (slaves don't work at maximum productivity for obvious reasons) and increases international competition.


So again, how do you reduce labor costs and material coats compared to China, for say computers? Environmental regulations don't significantly affect either.

PS Labor in China tends to be more expensive than Vietnam and India and other alternatives. So how are they de facto slaves?

 

[italiamusica]

I feel like all the tariff stuff is another extension of COVID, in the sense that it's setup to cripple small businesses and Mom and Pop shops. So many places go through the same vendors that get the same stuff overseas, and there's no way they could make it work trying to go the Made in USA route.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I’m a critic of America and the average American, but I do think that there can be some nuance that the American population will accept, but our politicians are just terrible (in large part because the average American is terrible)

I think the evidence to back it up is deep unpopularity with Trump’s decisions to attack allies and tariff the world, with his tanking approval ratings at that time.

I think American’s are truly open for business, just as long as you don’t take advantage of us. But as much as I berate politicians, it is hard to communicate nuance in this sound bite/Twitter clip environment. The ADHD brains of dying from diabetes retarded American’s can only take so much info beyond 8 seconds.

I agree that a nuanced middle ground that embraces the good in free trade while hedging against its downsides can be done. I'm obviously biased but I think that is what Biden tried to do and he was successful on the policy side of things despite some policy disagreements I have with him(blocking Nippon/US Steel merger, tariffs on certain Chinese goods, supporting unions) as he did spur domestic manufacturing to include the all important semiconductor but also EVa and solar panels.

Increasingly I see the issue is with populists on "both sides" of the aisle trying to push their respective establishments to commit to voodoo economics. Of course right now the inmates have taken over the asylum on the GOP side given Trumps love of tariffs and stranglehold on the party but even among Dems you have guys like Mamdani who advocates for state run grocers and rent freeze.

 

[Yehudim]

I agree that a nuanced middle ground that embraces the good in free trade while hedging against its downsides can be done. I'm obviously biased but I think that is what Biden tried to do and he was successful on the policy side of things despite some policy disagreements I have with him(blocking Nippon/US Steel merger, tariffs on certain Chinese goods, supporting unions) as he did spur domestic manufacturing to include the all important semiconductor but also EVa and solar panels.

Increasingly I see the issue is with populists on "both sides" of the aisle trying to push their respective establishments to commit to voodoo economics. Of course right now the inmates have taken over the asylum on the GOP side given Trumps love of tariffs and stranglehold on the party but even among Dems you have guys like Mamdani who advocates for state run grocers and rent freeze.

Unfortunately Biden was the least articulate man on earth BEFORE he entered advanced age, the guy was a gaffe machine during the Obama years and I’m assuming his entire career. He could have the best idea and will still end up in Instagram/TikTok clips for how he delivered it.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Unfortunately Biden was the least articulate man on earth BEFORE he entered advanced age, the guy was a gaffe machine during the Obama years and I’m assuming his entire career. He could have the best idea and will still end up in Instagram/TikTok clips for how he delivered it.

He had his strengths as a public speaker when he was younger, there's a well known clip of him railing against South African Apartheid that age's well.

If he ran and won in 2016 I don't think Trump ever gets into office.

 

[Deleted member 592570]

Most "cheap" labor in China isn't slavery or remotely comparable. There wages usually are above average and exceed rural labor rates.

Your cotton example is dumb. The price of it fell after slavery due to improved productivity (slaves don't work at maximum productivity for obvious reasons) and increases international competition.


So again, how do you reduce labor costs and material coats compared to China, for say computers? Environmental regulations don't significantly affect either.

PS Labor in China tends to be more expensive than Vietnam and India and other alternatives. So how are they de facto slaves?

Ah I see you consume a lot of CCP propaganda

 

[IanEdwards]

I actually think Republicans are right there, mismanagement at the city level explains the decline of a lot of these cities.

.
you think these are even remotely comparable to macro factors like, say, oh, I don't know, maybe the decline of major industries? you're insane. but you do make the perfect DNC spokesperson and, no offence, but a great example of whats wrong with corporate democrats and how they cave to and/or perpetuate the interests of the wealthy by recycling RW talking points.

My word, Detroit's decline caused by city-level mismanagement**, I have heard it all now. Do you think that, perhaps, city management may have become just a tad more difficult when the tax base shrank, maybe that was a factor? sorry to be obnoxious but, thats the worst example of DNC style simping I have ever seen on here.


** I don't include you in this but of course blaming city management is a great way of getting The Blacks in there to take the blame. not what you're saying, yourself, just what others can and will and do make of it.