There is no historical standing to any of these divisions anymore.

Discussion in 'The Lightweights' started by Significance Deficit, Aug 1, 2016.

  1. Just what the title says. The divisions are in a re-building phase right now and in the context of title shots, rankings, match-ups, etc., everything that happened before last year is essentially meaningless. For legacy and things of that nature, it’s a different story but the talks about guys deserving or not deserving certain things are silly.

    I argued in 2015 that Belfort didn’t deserve the shot against Weidman because he earned it in a different setting than the one he was going to be competing in. His win streak came during the TRT era. Once that was over, the things he did in 2013 no longer mattered. It’s the same concept here, only you have to apply it equally across the board.

    As we have seen with new champions being crowned at an unprecedented rate, the foundations on which these divisions were built have been shaken. I would argue that they are no longer established in any meaningful way and thus, the talk of certain fights making sense or not have become a bit ridiculous, namely with something like Diaz/Woodley being called a nonsensical match-up.

    On paper, clearly Wonderboy is the most deserving contender, but what has he really done? He beat a post-USADA Hendricks who has looked nothing like his old self and then outpointed MacDonald. The latter is a great win and I’m not throwing any accusations out there, I would just say that people need to start putting things in perspective in terms of what has actually happened. Pre-USADA wins don’t mean shit anymore, plain and simple. These divisions are starting over and there’s no reason to take anything from a past era into consideration at this point.

    In summation, continuity matters and one thing should be clear to everyone who has been paying attention…



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  2. gondo

    gondo Purple Belt

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    0-3 since early 2012 is more deserving of a shot than beating Rory?
     
  3. 0-0 since USADA, which is the point of the thread.

    No one deserves shit yet. Everyone is unproven now. They are fighting other guys who are unproven to rebuild these divisions.
     
  4. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Guest

    I want Diaz v Woodley because I'm a Diaz fan but you are reaching TS. Instead of coming up with a silly concept like "divisions are reset!!!" I'll just say Im a Diaz fanboy so give him the fight even though he doesn't deserve it.
     
    BigNuggetIce likes this.
  5. BigNuggetIce

    BigNuggetIce Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Yeah, nick's wins post-usada are a lot better than wonderboy's.
    Oh wait.....
     
  6. CerebralKnievel

    CerebralKnievel Gold Belt

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    I'll take active versus nothing. Your point is self-defeating and meaningless

    And I say that as a tremendous Diaz fan. Wonderboy - even discredited by your idiotic premise - has at least beaten someone. Diaz has done nothing in recent years.
     
  7. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Guest

    Wonderboy is 3-0 since USADA
     
  8. gondo

    gondo Purple Belt

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    Im a big Diaz fan and I'd prefer a fight with lawler. Good stand up war and nick won't threaten retirement again from Woodley's lay and pray.
     
  9. notsojollyroger

    notsojollyroger Purple Belt

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    TS, you're the reason there's blood in my stool.
     
  10. rakeleaves

    rakeleaves Brown Belt

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    Disregarding everything that has happened before just because of USADA isn't reasonable.
     
  11. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Guest

    Plus USADA started July 1, 2015. Wonderboy already has 3 wins since then that TS is ignoring
     
  12. Thought Ellenberger was pre-USADA.

    Either way, you're ignoring the point.

    I'd love to see the Lawler fight. He just got knocked out though and it'd be nice to see Diaz back in there ASAP.

    Also, I don't think Woodley has the conditioning to LnP him for 5 rounds.
     
  13. countswagula

    countswagula Gold Belt

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    So since USADA changes everything, the title shot should go to the guy who has yet to compete under USADA testing rather than the one who has multiple victories under the regimen?

    Sure, shit has changed a lot in MMA over the last year or so. Strict testing, IVs being banned, even the weigh ins have been restructured in most places. Doesn't mean we should throw everything out the window.
     
  14. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Guest

    He fought Jake in July of last year. If your point is things are different in the post USADA era then that's fine. However, there have been several fights since USADA so you either have to take those into account or your "division reset" is arbitrary and meaningless.

    So break it down for me TS why don't those post USADA wins count in your book?
     
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  15. scorpipede

    scorpipede you do yo thang Baby Smurf

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    you say you're not throwing out accusations but you insist anything before USADA doesn't mean shit. In the same post. You drunk?
     
  16. HHJ

    HHJ Fedor Supremacist

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    Slowly its been bubbling up to this. Conor,Nick Diaz,GSP,Bisping,and Woodley are trying to operate outside of the established order,and the UFC have to go along with what the fans want more and more. FW is in tatters. The dead are coming back around and Tina Yothers coming to town.
     
  17. Benoco

    Benoco Red Belt

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    Judging by:

    I'm guessing TS thought USADA testing just started. He's probably now gonna start backpedaling and come up with some convoluted explanation of what he initially meant, instead of just saying "Yeah, my bad, I thought USADA testing started at UFC 200" or something.
     
    Thunderchild likes this.
  18. I never said post-USADA wins don't count. I'm just taking those wins for what they are.

    In my eyes, everyone is unproven right now, some more than others obviously. Wonderboy is coming off a few wins over unproven guys, Diaz hasn't even fought yet. I'm not making the case that he deserves anything on merit, only that things aren't entirely what they seem. I don't see Wonderboy as being on a 7 fight run right now. I think he has 2 or 3 wins against guys who haven't shown much post-USADA. Pretty simple.

    I never said Diaz deserved a shot. I used his situation as one example in a broader argument.

    I'm not making specific accusations against individual fighters. I'm pointing out the reality that any fan would be a fool to ignore. Things are different right now than they were before USADA.
     
  19. Benoco

    Benoco Red Belt

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    How is FW in tatters? The division had one serious contender when Conor left, not 5. That contender has been eliminated and a huge rematch with Aldo will likely be booked by this time next month.
     
  20. I said that Diaz is 0-0 post-USADA, as opposed to 0-3 since 2012.

    So no, I won't be backpedaling any time soon. You might want to work on that reading comprehension bud.
     

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