There is literally no proof that Stipe has great takedown defense

[Matty da Ranga]

Stipe may very well beat Cormier at UFC 226. Hell, there's a good chance he may KO him in the 1st round, but this thread is not about their fight as a whole.

I've heard this idea that Stipe has elite TDD repeated extensively both on Sherdog and on social media, but where is the proof of this? Stipe has NEVER fought an elite wrestler in the UFC and got taken down by Gonzaga twice, who's not even close to being an elite wrestler. He managed to get back to his feet after these takedowns but DC has better top control than Gonzaga so if he gets takedowns, he'd be able to hold him down for longer periods of time.

And then when I question them about it, they say something along the lines of "hey bro, did you see what he did to Ngannou? Stipe was a D1 wrestler bro, he'll stuff DC's takedowns easily and smash him."
Anybody even moderately knowledgeable about the sport knows that amateur wrestling credentials mean very little in terms of MMA wrestling, and that being a good offensive wrestler ≠ having good TDD.

Cases in point (two of many):
- Hendo's TDD
Dan Henderson was one of the most accomplished amateur wrestlers to ever compete in MMA, but had very mediocre takedown defense for most of his career. He was repeatedly taken down and held down by far less credentialed, smaller guys, e.g. Jake Shields.
- D1 vs D3
The D1 wrestling argument is poor and is not rooted in facts. Corey Anderson recently outwrestled, outworked, and flat out dominated Patrick Cummins. Anderson was an average D3 wrestler while Cummins was an elite D1 All-American, and an NCAA championship runner-up (he even beat Cormier in college).

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Stipe wins and actually proves to have excellent TDD, but those of you that seem to be supremely confident RIGHT NOW in his ability to defend takedowns are not thinking logically, but are rather using broscience to formulate your opinion.

 

[Omega Man]

Well DC will surely test that.

 

[MMAcolyte]

 

[Katsumi Yamada]

Gonzaga takedowns are underrated but I take your point

 

[Dark Individual]

It is most definitely a myth. I think Cain would take him down and pound him out and Cormier may very well do the same. But yeah Stipe knocking them out cold in the 1st rd is equally possible.

 

[Reach4theSky]

DC is going to run through Stipe..

 

[kkkiko]

I root for Stipe, but I remeber JDS holding him down in their first fight.

 

[Gamer007]

The fact that Stipe has such a huge height advantage coupled with a big reach advantage combined with KO power. There's no way in hell Cormier will be able to stand with him for more than a couple minutes and even then he's gotta take down the larger man with Wrestling credentials of his own. If Cormier wins this fight or even makes it competitive....that will be a hell of an MMA achievement that'll live on long after his career is over.

 

[Reach4theSky]

Stipe knocking them out cold in the 1st rd is equally possible.

 

[leatherneck]

Corey Anderson recently outwrestled Patrick Cummins. Anderson was an average D3 wrestler while Cummins was an elite D1 All-American, (he even beat Cormier in college).

this also is not logical:

inferior wrestler (Anderson) outwrestled Cummins,
inferior wrestler (Cummins) outwrestled Cormier,
so Cormier will outwrestle inferior wrestler Stipe...

(although he might, your route to get there has flaws.

 

[Matty da Ranga]

this also is not logical:

inferior wrestler (Anderson) outrestles Cummins, an inferior wrestleri who once outwrestled Cormier, so Cormier will outwrestle inferior wrestler Stipe...

(although he might, your route to get there has flaws.

I never said DC would outwrestle Stipe. Your reading comprehension skills need some work; I said that it is completely unknown whether or not he'll be able to stuff DC's takedowns. Stipe could either have the best takedown defense we've ever seen, mediocre takedown defense, or anything in between.

The point of this thread is to critique those who think that it is some certainty that he has elite TDD, which is not rooted in facts.

 

[HI SCOTT NEWMAN]

Cormier will wrestle Stipe to death if it came to it. I actually think Cormier will beat him on the feet too, Cormier has fast hands for a heavy guy and Stipe is stiff and has his head straight up. I see Cormier giving him a ass whopping.

 

[Rvd Slmr]

Well, GSP already taught us that college wrestling credentials alone don't tell you the whole story, and it's hard to ignore that Stipe's defensive wrestling hasn't exactly been tested and proven in MMA yet.

 

[Enganacious]

That people underestimate either guy at this point, to me is amazing.

 

[Final Say]

I root for Stipe, but I remeber JDS holding him down in their first fight.

No you don't, Stipe was on his back for well under a minute in that entire fight.

JDS hit a slick trip against the fence and got on top, but Stipe got up pretty quickly without much issue

 

[Aberlour]

Stipe has to be one of the most overrated fighters on Sherdog. Francis Ngannau is an absolute armature with his skillset, he was gassed after one round, and Stipe still looked like shit against him. DC can take a punch and go five rounds. Bad night for Stipe.

 

[Final Say]

Stipe has to be one of the most overrated fighters on Sherdog. Francis Ngannau is an absolute armature with his skillset, he was gassed after one round, and Stipe still looked like shit against him. DC can take a punch and go five rounds. Bad night for Stipe.

Ngannou is looked at as an absolute amateur.... ever since stipe got done with him


Before that he was an unstoppable destroyer that, even though he was unproven, would undoubtedly catch the overrated Stipe at some point and become champion.

 

[executionermma]

Gabby had pretty good takedowns back in the day, and he was only able to keep Stipe down for 2 or 3 seconds. After that, in the second and third, he tried many takedowns and Stipe stuffed them all.

I think DC will be able to get the fight on the ground, the question here is for how long, i don't think he can hold Stipe there and/or advance to a dominant position. Once on the feet, i give all the advantage to Stipe.

 

[MMA_Fan]

If you watch DC's heavyweight matches, he was really good at pushing guys against the cage and holding them there. He doesn't do this as much at light heavy, where guys are faster and more mobile. He could very well trap Stipe against the cage and keep him there while roughing him up.

 

[MMAProfessional]

Stipe may very well beat Cormier at UFC 226. Hell, there's a good chance he may KO him in the 1st round, but this thread is not about their fight as a whole.

I've heard this idea that Stipe has elite TDD repeated extensively both on Sherdog and on social media, but where is the proof of this? Stipe has NEVER fought an elite wrestler in the UFC and got taken down by Gonzaga twice, who's not even close to being an elite wrestler. He managed to get back to his feet after these takedowns but DC has better top control than Gonzaga so if he gets takedowns, he'd be able to hold him down for longer periods of time.

And then when I question them about it, they say something along the lines of "hey bro, did you see what he did to Ngannou? Stipe was a D1 wrestler bro, he'll stuff DC's takedowns easily and smash him."
Anybody even moderately knowledgeable about the sport knows that amateur wrestling credentials mean very little in terms of MMA wrestling, and that being a good offensive wrestler ≠ having good TDD.

Cases in point (two of many):
- Hendo's TDD
Dan Henderson was one of the most accomplished amateur wrestlers to ever compete in MMA, but had very mediocre takedown defense for most of his career. He was repeatedly taken down and held down by far less credentialed, smaller guys, e.g. Jake Shields.
- D1 vs D3
The D1 wrestling argument is poor and is not rooted in facts. Corey Anderson recently outwrestled, outworked, and flat out dominated Patrick Cummins. Anderson was an average D3 wrestler while Cummins was an elite D1 All-American, and an NCAA championship runner-up (he even beat Cormier in college).

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Stipe wins and actually proves to have excellent TDD, but those of you that seem to be supremely confident RIGHT NOW in his ability to defend takedowns are not thinking logically, but are rather using broscience to formulate your opinion.

Can't say it's bad until he's tested. Also DC is in no way a natural HW. He's had a lot of trouble taking bigger guys down like Jones and Gus but they also have been tested. I can't imagine DC striking with Stipe and expect him to spam takedowns. I think we will learn really quickly who will win the fight. DC is powerful enough to KO Stipe IMO and every shot that DC takes on the chin will be dodging a bullet.