Theory on Jon Jones Record and LHW Landscape

Degen Gambler said:
Jones' competition at LHW is far more impressive than Anderson's at MW and Anderson is considered the GOAT.
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to people who cant see how padded that record is, alot of people know anderson was spoon fed.
 
Did Jones really get in the cage with guys that were 185 pounds at the time? Or did these "middleweights" weigh in at the same weight as him? I just started watching UFC last year so I'm curious.
 
All of the top lhws have been fighting against mw's and cans apparently
 
All you can do is fight the competition that is available at the time.

It is true some of the fighters were blown up middleweights (Chael, Vitor, Lyoto)
Some had long lay-offs from injuries or had past their primes (Rampage, Shogun)

But some were exceptional opponents (Rashad, Gus, Glover)

Jones job is to fight and he is getting in there and doing it.
I'm not really a fan of his, but I always felt he is one of the best in the world.
 
the same could be said about other champs.

look at gsp for example, alot of ppl claim that he was the champ of the toughest division.

who are his top wins?

hughes? clearly past his prime, n its debatable if he was really elite compare to todays standards. after his 1st lose to gsp hughes went on 4-4 record, losing to top guys.

bj? was really a lw. his victory over hughes n draw with fitch are his only accomplishments at ww.

sheild? got kod after gsp loss, went on to win couple of unimpressive split decisions, got manhandled by lombard n cut from ufc.

kos? 2-3 after gsp title fight with a 3 fight losing streak. his vicories are vs old man hughes n split decision vs a non top ten fighter.

fitch? the only guy that had some success after losing title fight to gsp. won 4 in a row vs so so competition, drew with lw penn, then got kod by hendricks n is 3-3 since n no longer in ufc

diaz? was good in sf, but didnt do much in ufc ww division.

condit? 1-2 after gsp titke fight.

hendricks? lost his 1st title defense vs a journeyman in lawler

im sure we need no explanations for guys like serra, avles n hardy

so as you can see any fighters record can be made to look not that impressive.

in jones case, he made lhw division, division thought to be the toughest at the time, look weak.
 
synyster said:
to people who cant see how padded that record is, alot of people know anderson was spoon fed.
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He beat some great fighters like Vitor, Rich, Hendo

But Jones certainly never fought someone like Cote, Leites or Maia..
 
phatron said:
Machida also couldn't hang at lh and had to move down.

over half of jones opponents have lost to MWs. You cant say that about any other champion.
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What do you mean he could not hang?

What was he ranked when he dropped to MW at LHW like 3rd or 4th??
 
FallonFoxGOAT said:
Who do you think he should have been fighting at 205 so we could say he's beaten the "who's who", TS?
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Lol, I like when posters try to act all smart in the comments, the TS wasn't saying that there actually were better contenders for Jones to fight, just pointing out that maybe the contenders that he did fight weren't really worthy contenders.

I don't agree with him at all, I think it's mostly bullshit, although Sonnen was definitely a joke fight.

But you should try making an actual point in response to the point that the TS actually made, instead of nitpicking a dumb question trying to make the TS look like a fool when in reality your dumb question actually doesn't have anything to do with what was written in the OP.
 
AresDesideratus said:
Lol, I like when posters try to act all smart in the comments, the TS wasn't saying that there actually were better contenders for Jones to fight, just pointing out that maybe the contenders that he did fight weren't really worthy contenders.

I don't agree with him at all, I think it's mostly bullshit, although Sonnen was definitely a joke fight.

But you should try making an actual point in response to the point that the TS actually made, instead of nitpicking a dumb question trying to make the TS look like a fool when in reality your dumb question actually doesn't have anything to do with what was written in the OP.
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you-mad-o.gif
 
phatron said:
Machida also couldn't hang at lh and had to move down.

over half of jones opponents have lost to MWs. You cant say that about any other champion.
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Machida was a champion at one point. I'd say he hung at LHW just fine.
 
synyster said:
you gonna get flamed/probably already have but I agree with you.. Jones wins at LHW are mostly has beens, MW's, with a few quality opponents in there, but he needs more wins from true LHW's from his generation.
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Almost every champ in every sport throughout time runs the gauntlet of beating some quality opponents, has-beens and clear underdogs. The great GSP was dealt some midtier opponents such as Hardy and Serra; Anderson Silva was so uninspired during the Lutter-Cote'-Maia-Leites days; Chuck Liddell defended his belt against Horn; etc etc.

Jones has legit opponents in Shogun, Evans, Lyoto, Evans, Gus and Texiera. Maybe LHW was not as stacked or exciting as the days of Wanderlei, Couture, Sakuraba (to some degree), Tito, Liddell, old Belfort, Randleman, but it was pretty stacked and he has another legit opponent in Cormier.
 
Besides Machida and Gus I don't think Jones beat anyone significant in the landscape now.
 
I partly agree with TS!

I have deep reservations for Sonnen and Belfort -- these guys were skyrocketed to a titleshot for no reason but money and popularity alone. Machida was granted the title shot on 1-1(?) streak and while not impressive I don't think there were many more worthy opponents at that time. Shogun was on obvious decline, but not washed out like nowadays.

All in all while Jones resume is pretty impressive (undefeated) yet I will refrain to consider him among the established GOATs at this point.

I think he will beat Cormier tomorrow (I've made a small bet), but he needs to continue fighting and winning against top opposition.

He has plenty of time and potential to establish himself as one of the GOATs though.
 
all top lhw's have only beaten mw's and cans according to that logic
 
Jones has only started fighting men his size with close to the same talent.
 
gus and jones are both tall fighter, is it unfair that they are fighting in lhw division?
 
Sensemaker said:
Theory on Jon Jones wins as LHW Champion,
I wonder if his situation is kind of like Arlovski and Sylvia towards the end of their reigns, where the quality of the contenders was just not that good for the most part. Looking at Jones' wins, Sonnen didn't belong in there fighting him, neither did Belfort, Shogun is years removed from his prime, Glover only beat Quinton Jackson, (far removed from his prime as well) Ryan Bader and James Te Huna- I don't think Glover was top notch contender material. Rashad was a solid contender at the time, but since has lost to little Nog, not looked great against Hendo, spanked Chael and now hasn't fought since 2013. Quinton went on to lose to Ryan Bader and Glover after fighting Jon Jones, then went to Bellator to fight a few cans. I think Jones' credible victories are Lyoto Machida (who belongs at 185) and Gus so far as champion. All of his wins prove he's extremely talented, but to say he's beaten the "who's who" at 205 is a stretch I believe, because the division is at a real weak point. Jones and Gus are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest, now with Cormier in the mix hopefully too.

Do not mistake this post for me saying Jones is not talented. He clearly is highly skilled. The Machida and Gus fight showcase his talent and durability, but in my mind though when looking at his wins, not many of them were really solid contenders to begin with, which leaves me with more questions than answers about Jon Jones against elite heavyweights and Cormier this weekend.

Thoughts? Please only constructive. Save the Jones hater or TS is retarded or one line grade school education level responses.
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while I can see your point, I don't like to do this.
Because you can do the exact same thing to almost every dominating champion (bash on people they beat).

At some point, you have to let it go and accept it.

Edit: OR, what Andre Xiong posted (exactly how I feel, but much better explained) :)

Andre Xiong said:
Almost every champ in every sport throughout time runs the gauntlet of beating some quality opponents, has-beens and clear underdogs. The great GSP was dealt some midtier opponents such as Hardy and Serra; Anderson Silva was so uninspired during the Lutter-Cote'-Maia-Leites days; Chuck Liddell defended his belt against Horn; etc etc.

Jones has legit opponents in Shogun, Evans, Lyoto, Evans, Gus and Texiera. Maybe LHW was not as stacked or exciting as the days of Wanderlei, Couture, Sakuraba (to some degree), Tito, Liddell, old Belfort, Randleman, but it was pretty stacked and he has another legit opponent in Cormier.
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this is why I think this fight is a changing of the guard. Jones was the transitional guy, he cleaned out the older guys and the true MWs and now the next level guy is coming to take over. Jones is like Rich Franklin when he took out all those old school guys and inferior MWs, then Silva brought in the next level. Welcome to the DC era, lol.
 
anderson only beat cans, when he faced a good opponent he immidiately lost (weidman). Same goes to Fedor, Werdum was his first true test
 
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