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Television THE WHEEL OF TIME (Premieres Nov. 19, 2021)

Jesus what is with the racial diversity?

Its so distracting as it is noticeably unrealistic if you have even the most basic understanding of anthropology and genealogy.

Play a drinking game. Drink a shot every time two people of the same race are in the same shot. You will be largely sober by the end.

How the hell can you go to a small village town in the middle of buttfuck nowhere and have everyone look like they are from the oppposite ends of the planet? Especially with their technological constraints (no railways, no phones). Can you imagine, in 2021, going to a far-flung village in the south of India in with a population of 200 and you realize each family is a different race. You got a European family, an aboriginal one, a chinese one, and the Cherokees live over there. WTF IS GOING ON.

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If you try really hard you can come up with an anthropological solution involving the differing cultural norms of that universe but they never even try and even if they did it'd be next to impossible to come up with a truly 'scientific' solution.

You can see this when you compare it to a real historical counterpart and you start to realize the sort of conditions you need for the sort of genepools you see on the show. If you observe the cultures of the Steppe nomads (pre-15th century), they often looked racially mixed and each little nomadic settlement varied greatly in the genetic sense. For example it is said that Genghis Khan may have had red hair. You may go to a little village of horse herders where everyone looks more East Asian but has blond hair. Then the next nomadic group living slightly further west may look more Turkic and have extremely hairy arms or something. These groups live right next to each other but only a generation or two ago would have been a thousand miles apart.

Because these people were nomadic and constantly on the move so they were highly likely to interbreed with people from distant lands. Their genepool was always in flux. Basically imagine a bunch of kingdoms but the castles are on wheels so these societies can always move around and find a new piece of land settle. One day they may live in the West next to Scythians, the next theyll be further east rubbing up against Tartars. But even in the Steppes there wasnt the same level of multiculturalism within each settlement as what we see on the show. More so a lot of geneological variety between settlements.

You never see this sort of distance covered with interbreeding in a settled village society. At most youll marry someone from the next village over. The only way you could explain this away is that their world is extremely interconnected like ours in the 21st century which technologically is clearly not the case. Even if it was, the people would interbreed and eventually make a new singular genepool which was created based on the genes of the previously seperate cultures that interbred in that settlement. They wouldnt continue to stay racially diverse for more than a few generations. It may take a little longer in large cities as there is a bigger sample of people to create a subcommunity with but the rule still applies.

The only solution to make this cultural diversity more prolonged is an extremely dark and racist one. That people who move from a distant land to a new one never interbreed with the local population. A bit like jews who were often not allowed to interbreed with Europeans hence why their culture survived independently. So what happens is you may have a village of a 1000 people but the 3 asian families only interbreed with asians (whether from their current village, nearby villages, or on rare occasions from a distant land), the whites with only whites, arabs with only arabs, and so on.

So yea this tv show is unintentionally endorsing Mein Kampf.
 
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Jesus what is with the racial diversity?

Its so distracting as it is noticeably unrealistic if you have even the most basic understanding of anthropology and genealogy.

Play a drinking game. Drink a shot every time two people of the same race are in the same shot. You will be largely sober by the end.

How the hell can you go to a small village town in the middle of buttfuck nowhere and have everyone look like they are from the oppposite ends of the planet? Especially with their technological constraints (no railways, no phones). Can you imagine, in 2021, going to a far-flung village in the south of India in with a population of 200 and you realize each family is a different race. You got a European family, an aboriginal one, a chinese one, and the Cherokees live over there. WTF IS GOING ON.

Isn't this supposed to take place far in the future?
 
Isn't this supposed to take place far in the future?

I just updated my post, if you read the second part I try to explain why its just extremely unrealistic given the worldbuilding the show has set out itself if you compare it to how humans interbreed and culturally mix in the real world.
 
It takes place in both the future and the past. Time in this universe is cyclical.

5HO.gif
 
Watched the 6th episode and noticed one of the executive producers is named Larry Mondragon.

Expected Mat to not go into the portal as soon as he said 'hey is it too late to back out now?'.
 
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The show still hasnt found itself yet and it might not but i still have some hope. The scene at the end (lan beating his chest) of the last episode kinda sums up my feelings so far. When scene started i was like ok. When he starting tearing up i was like alright. When moriene started reflecting his pain i was like boom, there is the wheel of time. If youve read the books, the bond that is shared was shown so well in that scene...then lan did the michael jackson thing and all the emotional momentum that had been built was lost and i loled.

Im enjoying the show still but its not very good yet.
No it's the Marky Mark thing from fear. He's gonna tell the head lady that the Red bitches beat him up.
 
I loved the part where the 2 super powerful women are having this super important moment in front of a whole room of super powerful women...

while gripping a rod
 
I loved the part where the 2 super powerful women are having this super important moment in front of a whole room of super powerful women...

while gripping a rod

And knowing where that rod was the night before. <Moves>
 
My wife was watching this. It’s not really what I’m into, but wow we’re the sets and CGI gorgeous. They really spent a lot of money on this show.

It's so weird all over the internet I'm readying conflicting reports on the money spent. Some people say it looks cheap then I read comments like yours. I haven't started watching it yet.
 
...
It's so weird all over the internet I'm readying conflicting reports on the money spent. Some people say it looks cheap then I read comments like yours. I haven't started watching it yet.

There were reports that they spent a lot of money building the set for the abandoned city and that it looked like it was in good shape for an abandoned city. I agree that the exterior of the buildings looked very new compared to the interior.
 
It's so weird all over the internet I'm readying conflicting reports on the money spent. Some people say it looks cheap then I read comments like yours. I haven't started watching it yet.
It looks pretty fucking amazing to me. Maybe they didn’t spend a ton but got a great deal on shit, IDK.
 
Jesus what is with the racial diversity?

Its so distracting as it is noticeably unrealistic if you have even the most basic understanding of anthropology and genealogy.

Play a drinking game. Drink a shot every time two people of the same race are in the same shot. You will be largely sober by the end.

How the hell can you go to a small village town in the middle of buttfuck nowhere and have everyone look like they are from the oppposite ends of the planet? Especially with their technological constraints (no railways, no phones). Can you imagine, in 2021, going to a far-flung village in the south of India in with a population of 200 and you realize each family is a different race. You got a European family, an aboriginal one, a chinese one, and the Cherokees live over there. WTF IS GOING ON.

-

If you try really hard you can come up with an anthropological solution involving the differing cultural norms of that universe but they never even try and even if they did it'd be next to impossible to come up with a truly 'scientific' solution.

You can see this when you compare it to a real historical counterpart and you start to realize the sort of conditions you need for the sort of genepools you see on the show. If you observe the cultures of the Steppe nomads (pre-15th century), they often looked racially mixed and each little nomadic settlement varied greatly in the genetic sense. For example it is said that Genghis Khan may have had red hair. You may go to a little village of horse herders where everyone looks more East Asian but has blond hair. Then the next nomadic group living slightly further west may look more Turkic and have extremely hairy arms or something. These groups live right next to each other but only a generation or two ago would have been a thousand miles apart.

Because these people were nomadic and constantly on the move so they were highly likely to interbreed with people from distant lands. Their genepool was always in flux. Basically imagine a bunch of kingdoms but the castles are on wheels so these societies can always move around and find a new piece of land settle. One day they may live in the West next to Scythians, the next theyll be further east rubbing up against Tartars. But even in the Steppes there wasnt the same level of multiculturalism within each settlement as what we see on the show. More so a lot of geneological variety between settlements.

You never see this sort of distance covered with interbreeding in a settled village society. At most youll marry someone from the next village over. The only way you could explain this away is that their world is extremely interconnected like ours in the 21st century which technologically is clearly not the case. Even if it was, the people would interbreed and eventually make a new singular genepool which was created based on the genes of the previously seperate cultures that interbred in that settlement. They wouldnt continue to stay racially diverse for more than a few generations. It may take a little longer in large cities as there is a bigger sample of people to create a subcommunity with but the rule still applies.

The only solution to make this cultural diversity more prolonged is an extremely dark and racist one. That people who move from a distant land to a new one never interbreed with the local population. A bit like jews who were often not allowed to interbreed with Europeans hence why their culture survived independently. So what happens is you may have a village of a 1000 people but the 3 asian families only interbreed with asians (whether from their current village, nearby villages, or on rare occasions from a distant land), the whites with only whites, arabs with only arabs, and so on.

So yea this tv show is unintentionally endorsing Mein Kampf.

The crazy diversity really is jarring. I made a post before comparing every large scene to a university text book.

Outside Moiraine, who's okay looking, they haven't shown one attractive female too. Egwene is supposed to distractingly gorgeous too...

The agenda from the showrunners is plastered everywhere. I can only imagine how badly Amazon screws up LOTR too.
It's so weird all over the internet I'm readying conflicting reports on the money spent. Some people say it looks cheap then I read comments like yours. I haven't started watching it yet.
It looks amazing and awful, that's probably the best way to describe every aspect of this show.

The magic effects, and the Trollocs (their trolls) are amateur hour, yet they can be blended with nicer, sometimes beautiful effects. It's as jarring as the ridiculous diversity in every large scene. The CGI, namely on the White Tower and the City it's part of looks stunning. They have some amazing sets and costumes as well.

The acting can be solid to campy and downright terrible.

This is an epic story, and outside a few solid moments, it's been a slog to get through. I just watched ep 5 and 6 with the gf, we're not impressed. I read the books and she didn't, so we have different perspectives. The biggest sin is the lack of intrigue and terrible pacing

Isn't this supposed to take place far in the future?
It is set thousands of years into our future, but the populations aren't global trotting for the most part. There are medieval style villages everywhere, where families stay in the same climate for generations. Not only is every race constantly represented, accents are all over the place too. There would be pigment and dialect uniformity after so much time in the same culture/climate, it's just silly. The books have plenty of different races with strong characters in both genders. They didn't need to amp it up to preposterous levels.
 
The wheel of time is an American epic fantasy. Its world and cultures are directly pulled from the "melting pot" culture of America. The diversity in the TV show matches the spirit imo. I mean if we want it to accurately reflect the book than the aes sedai should all look the same age and we should never see emotional tells in anything they do...but that seems like boring TV if all the talent is standing around emotionless.

The highlight of the last episode was when they askes moraine what would happen to the non dragon peeps at the eye of the world and Moraine tries to lie to them. There is a momemt of silence and the her face starts twitching a little and shes smiles and then says she doesn't know.

The show is still not that good but the pacing has gotten better the last 2 episodes. In fact i would say the show isnt even good enough to critique at this point. It just sort of is.
 
Is this show any good? My wife watched the first I think three episodes, she said it was great, but I sat through a bit of the third episode and thought it looked like shit.
 
Is this show any good? My wife watched the first I think three episodes, she said it was great, but I sat through a bit of the third episode and thought it looked like shit.

It has It's moments. I keep watching because I've read the books. Don't know if I'd keep watching if I hadn't. My girlfriend enjoys it.
 
The crazy diversity really is jarring. I made a post before comparing every large scene to a university text book.

Outside Moiraine, who's okay looking, they haven't shown one attractive female too. Egwene is supposed to distractingly gorgeous too...

The agenda from the showrunners is plastered everywhere. I can only imagine how badly Amazon screws up LOTR too.

It looks amazing and awful, that's probably the best way to describe every aspect of this show.

The magic effects, and the Trollocs (their trolls) are amateur hour, yet they can be blended with nicer, sometimes beautiful effects. It's as jarring as the ridiculous diversity in every large scene. The CGI, namely on the White Tower and the City it's part of looks stunning. They have some amazing sets and costumes as well.

The acting can be solid to campy and downright terrible.

This is an epic story, and outside a few solid moments, it's been a slog to get through. I just watched ep 5 and 6 with the gf, we're not impressed. I read the books and she didn't, so we have different perspectives. The biggest sin is the lack of intrigue and terrible pacing


It is set thousands of years into our future, but the populations aren't global trotting for the most part. There are medieval style villages everywhere, where families stay in the same climate for generations. Not only is every race constantly represented, accents are all over the place too. There would be pigment and dialect uniformity after so much time in the same culture/climate, it's just silly. The books have plenty of different races with strong characters in both genders. They didn't need to amp it up to preposterous levels.

I am incredibly worried about LOTR after seeing WoT. Im preparing myself for the disappointment and already coming to terms with it.

What page is your post on that youre talking about?

I also actually said to my girlfriend that the show looks very high budget but the lighting is very inconsistent. Sometimes it looks like a hollwood movie, sometimes like a tv add, other times like a nature opera and soap opera sometimes. I would really have liked some sort of break down from a film making professional explaining why they screwed this up.

And the cgi was largely just a mess. I hope we get a corridor crew vfx reacts video addressing it.
 
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I am incredibly worried about LOTR after seeing WoT. Im preparing myself for the disappointment and already coming to terms with it.

What page is your post on that youre talking about?
What are you worrying about? LOTR needs a some diversity in 2022. A Mexican Frodo. His best friend Sam is a woman from east Asia. Gandalf played by Morgan Freeman. Saruman is a cis white male that collects hitler memorabilia.
 
The wheel of time is an American epic fantasy. Its world and cultures are directly pulled from the "melting pot" culture of America. The diversity in the TV show matches the spirit imo. I mean if we want it to accurately reflect the book than the aes sedai should all look the same age and we should never see emotional tells in anything they do...but that seems like boring TV if all the talent is standing around emotionless.

The highlight of the last episode was when they askes moraine what would happen to the non dragon peeps at the eye of the world and Moraine tries to lie to them. There is a momemt of silence and the her face starts twitching a little and shes smiles and then says she doesn't know.

The show is still not that good but the pacing has gotten better the last 2 episodes. In fact i would say the show isnt even good enough to critique at this point. It just sort of is.

I can't say that I agree with this interpretation. Warning, there will be some minor book spoilers here. Yes, WOT is American fiction, but it really doesn't start with that melting pot baked into the fantasy setting. It has been about a decade since I read the books, but one thing I remember quite distinctly is that different countries had different racial/ethnic makeups. The Borderlanders tend to be Asian in how they present. I think it's people from Arad Doman (maybe the Taraboners - can't recall) who are tan skin and loosely modeled after some sort of middle Eastern traders. The Aiel are tall and red haired, as if the Dutch were transplanted into the desert. Cairhien is pretty obviously modeled after some sort of English monarchy (or at least some sort of Central European country) with The Two Rivers being a town full of (essentially) British country bumpkins (apple cider swigging longbow wielding etc) and is (at the start) pasty white in the books. The Seanchan are a cosmopolitan empire, composed of a whole host of conquered peoples of all sorts of different ethnic makeups. Point is, this series absolutely makes clear distinctions between racial and ethnic groups along national lines, and those are not drawn from some American vision of a melting pot. Most of the groups have some sort of historical analog in Europe or from somewhere in Asia.

What really shows that this was absolutely not a racial/ethnic melting pot at the beginning is that later in the series it makes a point of showing how The Two Rivers has become a melting pot. It has people from all around, from these other nations, emigrating to it, bringing new ways and technologies (I think it makes a point of talking about how they are now doing tile instead of thatch roofs). The Two Rivers didn't start out ethnically diverse at all - but the books make it clear that it became like that. Basically, the books start off ethnically and culturally divided and the narrative moves it towards a melting pot.

The show craps all over this. I'm not even saying this is horrible, but it really doesn't show respect to the way Jordan carefully crafted the groups in the world. The Two Rivers can't develop into a melting pot because, in today's political climate, a major studio won't dare to start it out ethnically homogenous from the beginning even if they intend to make it otherwise by the end. Hell, shows about vikings and British queens are casting people of colour. What will be really telling, in the WOT show, is if when we get to one of the non-caucasian nations they are exclusively people of colour and there is zero diversity. This is more of a political subforum point, but if this show takes the English style nations that were homogenous in the books and makes them multiethnic, but leaves the non-caucasian nations homogenous in being non-caucasian... Well, you interpret that as you will. I just don't think the books support your idea of the WOT nations being a melting pot in the way you're saying - at least, not until ten books in or something.

Just to be clear, I don't think there is anything wrong with race swapping and diversity on screen - when it's done for a good reason. I'm not sure it was done for a good reason here - but, time will tell.
 
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So if non-Ogier can open up Waygates, why all the questions of how the Trollocs got to the Two Rivers? Hardly seems mysterious with the Waygates being these great landmarks on the top of hills. Anyone catch an explanation of why Loial got added to the group?
 
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