Social The Way Conservatives Used to Talk About Immigration

[shunyata]

I don't think any of this has to do with policy or position. I think it all has to do with just hating on Trump. Because democrats (who had a 6% approval rating of Bush and a 2% approval rating amongst liberal democrats) hated Bush on his last day in office. So why are they using a person they absolutely despise as an example of what the other side should emulate?

It's because it's not about Bush. It's about hating Trump. That's all they really care about.

Also why does the OP think that all conservatives should be a single hivemind who can't disagree about immigration?

What kind of nonsense are you guys spouting. "Hey, here's a guy we've historically hated saying something, now you have to agree with it or you don't get to call yourself a part of the people that we also oppose". What kind of logic is that? Why would any conservative take an OP like that seriously?

You can think what you want, but this is literally about policy and asking how we got here to this total 180 in policy.

It's not disingenuous to say, look here's a major representative of the Republican party from a few years ago and while many people disagreed with him about many things here is an issue where he expressed his views on a topic. Those views had wide bipartisan support at the time he made those statements, but the party seems to have abandoned those stances in the present.

I may hate Trump's actions but if he changed his policies and acted in a way that I thought benefits the nation I'd wouldn't be too shy to say I agree with those new actions.

 

[Source]

The way conservatives talk about immigrants now is reminiscent of Carl Schmitt.

 

[Scheme]

You can think what you want, but this is literally about policy and asking how we got here to this total 180 in policy.

It's not disingenuous to say, look here's a major representative of the Republican party from a few years ago and while many people disagreed with him about many things here is an issue where he expressed his views on a topic. Those views had wide bipartisan support at the time he made those statements, but the party seems to have abandoned those stances in the present.

I may hate Trump's actions but if he changed his policies and acted in a way that I thought benefits the nation I'd wouldn't be too shy to say I agree with those new actions.

It's an appeal to authority of an authority that was generally despised by the same people making that appeal. And it assumes that:

A. George W. Bush is accepted as an authority on conservatism (note, even amongst republicans leaving his term he only had a 57% approval rating, versus 90% approval rating of republicans in Trump's second term).
B. Conservatives need to have the same hive-mind opinion on every issue
C. Circumstances from 20-60 years ago are the same as they are today, which they are clearly not in terms of sheer numbers.
D. George W. Bush didn't also deport millions of illegal immigrants as well, no different than Trump is doing.
E. The OP isn't conflating illegal immigration with legal immigration.

 

[idrankyourbeer]

There's no words that follow the statement "say what you want about Hitler but...." that makes you seem like anything other than an imbecile desperate to earn the validation of other like minded losers. Grow up already. This edge lord shit isn't serving any of you all that well.

say what you want about hitler but at least hitler didn't run scam universities, steal the money from charity services for children with cancer, or bankrupt 3 casinos so at least he's got that going for him as well.

 

[ShinkanPo]

In my lifetime (I am 47) politics was reasonably civil until the 2000 election when gore lost by very few votes after the hanging Chad conspiracy. Bush jr did some things that were bad like starting a war with the wrong country potentially over oil deposits. But bush seemed like a good hearted dude and I liked him and his quirks. Ever since then, things have gotten so much worse than they were 25 years ago. Bush even had some southern or midwestern gentleman class going on. He was likable. Then Obama came in with grace and class. I didn’t love him, but he was the best potus in the last 25 years followed by bush jr imo.







It’s Obama reign where race relations began to plummet durin g his reign. I felt like Obama cared so very little about white people and cops and probably was sick of hiding those feelings. With that said, he was the most presidential potus followed by bush jr. biden was a weak af potus that accomplished next to nothing and trump is the worst president of my lifetime and perhaps, top three worst presidents period. The swath of damage that comes from that man’s pen or that man’s dick is immeasurable

I pretty much agree with your take hear.
Obama being the most presidential along with Bush jr.

But I do feel it was during Bush's reign were all this toxic anti science, anti choice anti LGBT stuff got cranked to 11?

Correct me if I am wrong it was Bush who banned government sponsored stem cell research.

And then his senators like Rick Santorum making anti LGBT speeches on the regular?

His brother Jeb even got in the way of the "assisted" suicide thing mainly in the Terry Tschiavo fiasco.

The Bush have even met with Pope John Paul 2 many times just so they can call homosexuality ebil.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Yup.

Today, amnesty isn't even a mainstream left position, it's a far-left position. Absolutely too wild to be mainstream.

But it was the biggest right-wing icon of the past 50 years that passed it in the 80s

You might think "Yeah, well it's a different time now, we're absolutely swamped with illegals today!"

Let's take a look at 2015, when Trump ran and won on a promise to shut down the border because it was being overrun by hordes of illegals-

MAGAists don't have a leg to stand on on this issue. They're either hopelessly bigoted or hopelessly stupid.

Never knew that amnesty with reagan as I was just a baby when he became president.

Now I understand why my other family members who moved to the USA in the late 70s loved the man.

 

[nhbbear]

I pretty much agree with your take hear.
Obama being the most presidential along with Bush jr.

But I do feel it was during Bush's reign were all this toxic anti science, anti choice anti LGBT stuff got cranked to 11?

Correct me if I am wrong it was Bush who banned government sponsored stem cell research.

And then his senators like Rick Santorum making anti LGBT speeches on the regular?

His brother Jeb even got in the way of the "assisted" suicide thing mainly in the Terry Tschiavo fiasco.

The Bush have even met with Pope John Paul 2 many times just so they can call homosexuality ebil.

I think you’re right about the stem cell research. It was kind of a big thing back then. And the 2000 election is definitely when the two sides really started hating each other and it has just gotten worse every year. I do wonder how much of it is theater only to find out that many adversaries are actually friends

 

[Cajun]

I can almost guarantee that one of the intended posts included the debate between Reagan and Bush Senior.

I can also guarantee that if you took what those two said about immigration and fed it to MAGA without telling them who said it, they would assume it was from some far left communists who hate the U.S.

I think its both. Bill not for gay marriage....his speeches on securing the border and deporting criminal illegals... Obama speeches on illegal immigration and his policy. You will always have the racist idiots on the far right. But its not everyone. Many are for controlled immigration on both sides.

 

[ShinkanPo]

I think you’re right about the stem cell research. It was kind of a big thing back then. And the 2000 election is definitely when the two sides really started hating each other and it has just gotten worse every year. I do wonder how much of it is theater only to find out that many adversaries are actually friends

I think what sets appart G.W. Bush is despite his heavy conservstive stance on things like said he was still polite and even conciliatory.

I remember during the wars on terror how he reached out to Muslims to assure them that he is not anti Muslim.

 

[ermac88]

Its wild hearing the contrast with the LAST republican president.

We thought he was a dummy at the time, but he sounds like a Rhodes scholar and statesman compared to what we are dealing with now?




I think the difference is now, specific leaders will not turn towards the lowest common denominator for appeal.

 

[ermac88]

I sometimes wonder if Hitler spoke out against Trump, would the left embrace him and lick his nuts like they do for other war criminals? Or could that be the final straw that leftists need to look themselves in the mirror and say "maybe we are wrong".

But Neo-nazis, Klansmen etc ENDORSE trump.

How/why would Hitler speak untowards him?

Neo-Nazi Leader Endorses Trump

Literal Neo-Nazi Leader Endorses Trump

NSC-131 founder Chris Hood says Trump vote will help “preserve and improve” plight of race separatists.

www.rollingstone.com

Hail Trump: White nationalists mark Trump win with Nazi salute​

Neo-Nazis explain why they support Donald Trump​

Neo-Nazis explain why they support Donald Trump

While Trump has disavowed endorsements from racist leaders, many draw conclusions between his rhetoric and the mainstreaming of groups on the radical right.

www.vox.com

You didnt think this one out

 

[ermac88]

I agree, fuck them both. But in this case, George W. Bush is a person the left despised and called a war criminal. He had a 6% approval rating amongst democrats at the end of his term, and liberal democrats had him at 2%:

Bush and Public Opinion

Overview: Bush and Public Opinion As George W. Bush prepares to leave the White House, the United States is in many ways dramatically different from when

www.pewresearch.org

So why is this historically deeply unpopular figure among the left now being used as a shining example of "conservatism"? Why is a person who was even more unpopular amongst democrats during his term being used as a glorious conservative?

Because the OP is making the idiotic statement that George W. Bush's opinion matters at all and we should dictate our opinions on conservatism based on what he says.

He was a hated individual amongst the left who wouldn't listen to him before. But once he speaks out against Trump then suddenly he's the picture perfect version of conservatism that every right wing person should respect and emulate.

The left are simply listening to guys like George W. Bush, Michael Bolton and Dick Cheney because they came out as anti-Trump. If they supported Trump and said literally the exact same things, they would be criticizing them and their association with Trump. Because the words don't matter. It's all about Trump. I wish the democrats would let go of all their Trump hatred because they just keep digging themselves deeper into unpopularity and we do need a second party at some point to push back against unilateral right-wing control.

To be very clear

I think MOST people thought GW was a bad president at the height of the recession.

the country was in support of his wars, infact most democrats were too (Biden supported both wars)

In my personal view he was a bad president.


That said, he was a leader though a poor one.

He wasnt a self serving felon, rapist or reality star that attacked and inflamed Americans and her allies and he sounds like an INTELLECT compared to trump.


People (left/right) dont clamour to him (or any previous administration) now with some revisionist rosy glasses .

Its just relative to trump we see how BAD things are and can get. Trump isnt even a conservative.

 

[Crazy Source]

The way conservatives talk about immigrants now is reminiscent of Carl Schmitt.

".....an authoritarian conservative theorist".

 

[Scheme]

But Neo-nazis, Klansmen etc ENDORSE trump.

How/why would Hitler speak untowards him?

Neo-Nazi Leader Endorses Trump​

​

Literal Neo-Nazi Leader Endorses Trump

NSC-131 founder Chris Hood says Trump vote will help “preserve and improve” plight of race separatists.

www.rollingstone.com

Hail Trump: White nationalists mark Trump win with Nazi salute​

Neo-Nazis explain why they support Donald Trump​

Neo-Nazis explain why they support Donald Trump

While Trump has disavowed endorsements from racist leaders, many draw conclusions between his rhetoric and the mainstreaming of groups on the radical right.

www.vox.com

You didnt think this one out

I agree the right-wing has extremists that they need to condemn (which Trump has done on multiple occasions).

My post was more that the left absolutely hated George W. Bush, 2% approval rating amongst liberal democrats. The only person I could think of a lower approval rating would probably be Hitler. So would they trot out Hitler the same way they trot out another person they absolutely despised with a 2% approval rating, as long as he opposed Trump?

 

[Scheme]

The way conservatives talk about immigrants now is reminiscent of Carl Schmitt.

Can you answer this:

Why do you and your party constantly conflate illegal immigration with legal immigration? Why can't you differentiate between immigration that follows the laws of America and immigration that does not?

And why are you guys constantly obtuse about the difference?

 

[MacGregor]

Irony

 

[HomeCheese]

This is accurate, the democratic party is mostly capitalist neoliberals at this point with a progressive minority that is constantly being shut out of power by DNC leadership.

Obama and Clinton would be center right by European standards.

We don't have a leftist party in the US.

We have center right and far right.

I kinda agree when someone said the democrats are the party of corporations while the republicans have become the party of the oligarchs.

Neither party has the common man's interest at heart. At least with the democrats we have a "kinder, gentler machine gun hand".

 

[WklySportsMemes]

The way conservatives talk about immigrants now is reminiscent of Carl Schmitt.

Do you remember the Western movies from all the way back to the early days of film until even now????

You know, those kind of open frontier & wild west eras white conservatives pine & larp for.

Where poor hard working white families entered into far away strange lands that were not theirs. Lands that were occupied and controlled by other groups and nations. Lands with strict rules for outsiders. Lands they should of known not to cross.

Then those hard working people in search of a better opportunity for their families were captured violently by those mean ol' brown "savages"

Wonder what the conservatives think of becoming the villains in real life that they used to portray in their movies.

 

[cincymma79]

Is that supposed to be a punishment? What's wrong with africans?

We’re not checking them at all. We will just let you figure out if any of them are assholes

 

[nhbbear]

I think what sets appart G.W. Bush is despite his heavy conservstive stance on things like said he was still polite and even conciliatory.

I remember during the wars on terror how he reached out to Muslims to assure them that he is not anti Muslim.

I liked bush as a person. He is a bit aloof but it is his interactions with Michelle Obama that tells me he is a decent dude deep down. He put aside the politics and is a person under all that wealth.