The US government tortures children (Human Rights Watch)

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Melas Chasma, Aug 6, 2016.

  1. Melas Chasma

    Melas Chasma Red Belt

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  2. Kframe

    Kframe Black Belt

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    Boko haram a distant third? LOL at that. Sure raping preteen girls, and forcing them to marry is not worse then anything we Muricans do..

    SMH at Eurosocialists and their fucked up world view.
     
  3. Melas Chasma

    Melas Chasma Red Belt

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    Forget the Boko Haram for a second. How does the fact that US government tortures children make you feel?
     
  4. Blackened

    Blackened It is a new era! Double Yellow Card

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    Article seems incredibly biased. "Taking into account that the US is responsible for the violence in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria that has resulted in torture and detention"

    I'm going to use this to make a point, though much more can be said. To say that the U.S. is responsible for violence in Iraq, a country formerly led by dictator Saddam Hussein, I can't take it seriously.

    Seems to have a leftist bias.

    Now that we have the bias out of the way, I can say I don't have enough information to make a full opinion. On the surface it sounds incredibly wrong.

    But let's define a "child". The article states, "Random interviews conducted by the UN in dozens of these facilities suggest that up to 13 percent of these detainees—more than 900 individuals—may be children under the age of 18"

    13% are children under the age of 18... lets think about this for a minute. If someone is 16 or 17, they fall in the category of "children" according to this study. I can see situations where the torture or detainment of someone in this age range would be completely justified if associated with a rather disorganized group like ISIS. This is much different that electrocuting the balls of a 5 year old boy or waterboarding an 11 year old girl. To pretend they are they are the same is disingenuous at best.

    EDIT* For example, lets say a 17 year old ISIS member is being captured. When we find out the age, should we just let them go? No. You fucking detain them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2016
  5. Kframe

    Kframe Black Belt

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    I don't believe it for a second. If it were true, the Left in America would be all over that like stink on shit. It would be wall to wall on every possible news and information outlet. It would be used in all there national campaigning shit, and likely would result in a groundswell of emotional support. The fact that it hasn't, the fact that Hillary Clinton and the DNC and the rest of the Soros funded have not, tells me this is bullshit..

    NEVER underestimate the Clinton machine, just look at what they were prepared to do to Bernie.
     
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  6. Blackened

    Blackened It is a new era! Double Yellow Card

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    I certainly believe it's possible, I just can't say that it's wrong.

    If a 17 year old ISIS member is lets say causing acts of terrorism or recruiting and we detain him... Well, the detaining is certainly justifiably. If the said "child" is possibly holding information, torture may be justifiable.

    I'm sorry but this is the world we live in. I wish the planet were peaceful and shit like this didn't exist, but you can't make the United States out to be the bad guy for capturing or torturing someone who's agenda is a global Islamic state if murder and bombings are a means to that end.
     
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  7. redwire

    redwire Few and Far Between

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    I didn't let my kids install Pokemon Go on my phone. According to them, this was pretty much the same as torturing them.
     
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  8. Melas Chasma

    Melas Chasma Red Belt

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    Some quotes from the HRW report:

    "In September 2007, US military officials reported that 828 children were held at Camp Cropper in Iraq, including some as young as 11"

    "US soldiers stationed at US-run detention centers and former detainees described abuses against child detainees, including the rape of a 15-year-old boy at Abu Ghraib prison, forced nudity, stress positions, beating, and the use of dogs".

    "In 2010, the US told the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child that it had “gone to great lengths” to reduce the number of children held in detention and that as of December 31, 2009, the US held fewer than five detainees under the age of 18 in Afghanistan and Iraq.[88]However, when Human Rights Watch visited the main US-operated detention facility in Parwan, Afghanistan, in March 2012, facility representatives told Human Rights Watch researchers that they held 250 detainees under the age of 18, including 11 children who were 15 years old.[89] They stated, contrary to international law, that only those under 16 were considered “children” and were separated from the adult population".

    "Although US military representatives said that no children under 15 were detained at Parwan, a lawyer representing several Pakistani detainees told Human Rights Watch that one of her clients was picked up and taken to the facility at age 14. The US rejected requests by the UN children’s fund, UNICEF, to have access to the children in detention".
     
  9. Squarechoke

    Squarechoke Gold Belt

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    Of course you can. It's fully possible for all parties in a situation to be bad guys. If you sign the UN Declaration of Human Rights you need to try to follow it in order to have your word mean anything.

    The fact that torture produces unreliable information only makes the whole thing dumber.
     
  10. Blackened

    Blackened It is a new era! Double Yellow Card

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    I never said they couldn't.

    Would you agree that it's possible that the need for information outweighs the ethical/moral considerations in certain situations? Could you envision a scenario where this would be the case? If you can't, I'd argue you aren't thinking hard enough.
     
  11. Melas Chasma

    Melas Chasma Red Belt

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    Im not sure I follow your logic. Why would "the Left" want to bring their own crimes into daylight? This is not about left or right, its about US foreign policy in general.
     
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  12. Blackened

    Blackened It is a new era! Double Yellow Card

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    Yet again, 11 'children' who were 15 and one who was 14... I can still see detainment as the only logical solution. Torture possibly being justifiable, depending on the situation (which we don't have information on).

    We aren't talking about 5 year old kids here. We are talking about terrorists that are adolescents. There is a measure of accountability here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2016
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  13. Melas Chasma

    Melas Chasma Red Belt

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    Does it feel easier to turn this type of subject into a joke, rather than giving a honest answer to the question I made in OP?
     
  14. Melas Chasma

    Melas Chasma Red Belt

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    I respect your opinion. As long as people dont try to be in denial about the subject, its fine. I just want to hear how these types of things make people feel, especially people who are US citizens.
     
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  15. Blackened

    Blackened It is a new era! Double Yellow Card

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    I appreciate your inquiry and I'm happy to share my opinion.
     
  16. LucasWithLidOff

    LucasWithLidOff Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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  17. Raiman

    Raiman Black Belt

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    I'm not saying torture is okay, in fact torture is disgusting in my opinion and doesn't work as well as we think, but were these kids strapping bombs on themselves or firing A.K.'s at US soldiers? It would make a difference.

    I remember watching a Vice doc about child jihadist and how they were used by mullahs because they were unsuspecting and the US soldier had too much of a heart to stop them. If that is the case then what do you suppose Army intelligence do?

    Their enemy uses and abuses these kids too (again not right) but if that is the war we are in how do we fight it? They use kids as human shields so they can bomb and destroy people they hate. That is the disgusting ideology they espouse.

    So how do I feel about torture of children? I think it is despicable but the adults that gave them weapons made them enemy combatants and enemies of the US aren't given tea and crumpets for shooting at people when they get detained.
     
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  18. Melas Chasma

    Melas Chasma Red Belt

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    By the way, since you mentioned that the writer of the first article seemed to have a leftist bias. He is a former republican, currently a strong critic of both parties. Likes to call Hillary with names like Hitlery, Killary, etc.
     
  19. Blackened

    Blackened It is a new era! Double Yellow Card

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    Personally, when dealing with groups that don't follow GENEVA convention, I think it's incredibly foolish to adhere to it.
     
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  20. Blackened

    Blackened It is a new era! Double Yellow Card

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    I'll take your word for it. My argument still stands. If you want to address that we can.

    What do you suggest we do if we capture a 16 year old ISIS member? Because if we don't let him go, we are detaining him (which is so frowned upon by the author). Personally, if you advocate letting him go I think you're at best a fool.

    And in certain situations, torture may be justifiable.

    Against, this is the world we live in. It's not all roses and flowers. I didn't make it this way, I didn't make the rules. But if these "children" want to bomb a local grocery store, they are playing the game (whether willfully or not).
     

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