Law The Trump administration is officially moving to overturn a law that requires clergy to report child sexual abuse, saying it violates priests' constit

[AZ103]

Confessions of crimes are NOT protected by attorney/client privilege. If you tell your attorney you did SA a child, they have a duty to report it, or at the very least tell you that if you don't, they will.

Communication is meant for a person facing their charges, not trying to avoid them. An attorney cannot help you cover up a crime

I believe they just have a duty not to misrepresent what they know in court, if it comes up. They can still work around it and attack the prosecutor's case with full knowledge that their client is guilty, AFAIK.

i dont know a ton about this but i was under the impression you can tell them you are guilty and they can lie via omission and strategy and tactics like Heretic said. Ill read up on it.

I formated this poorly. My response is in the quote.

 

[joy2day]

You are licensed as a therapist that is why you are a mandatory reporter.

Normal citizens are not required, priests are not licensed by the state.

Why should they be mandatory reporters anymore so than a waiter, a busboy or any average Joe?

Mandated reporters are people—like teachers, doctors, priests, social workers, childcare providers, and law enforcement—who have frequent and early access to children and are thus positioned to detect signs of abuse or neglect early. They are in positions of trust.

 

[Sinister]

I believe they just have a duty not to misrepresent what they know in court, if it comes up. They can still work around it and attack the prosecutor's case with full knowledge that their client is guilty, AFAIK.

The point is that by the time you tell a lawyer you've already been arrested and charged, the job of a lawyer is to bring you to justice and represent you. Context. We are talking about reporting of crimes. Lawyers cant ethically engage in covering up crimes, it doesnt work like that. That's the entire reason for the Fraud/Crime exception to Attorney/Client Privilege.

 

[koa pomaikai]

Confessions of crimes are NOT protected by attorney/client privilege. If you tell your attorney you did SA a child, they have a duty to report it, or at the very least tell you that if you don't, they will.

Communication is meant for a person facing their charges, not trying to avoid them. An attorney cannot help you cover up a crime.

Yes they absolutely are, although I don’t know the laws of every state, they certainly are in California and most states that model ABA rules.

You can only report your client to prevent future crimes of substantial bodily harm, it must be certain and imminent, and it only applies to future crimes they will commit.

Past crimes that your client tells you they did are never reportable by an attorney, they will be disbarred for doing so, 100%

And it’s a allowing you to report, not requiring it.

The State Bar of California

Protecting the public & enhancing the administration of justice.

www.calbar.ca.gov

subdivision (1). Paragraph (B), which restates Business and Professions Code section 6068, subdivision (e)(2), identifies a narrow confidentiality exception, absent the client's informed consent, when a member reasonably believes that disclosure is necessary to prevent a criminal act that the member reasonably believes is likely to result in the death of, or substantial bodily harm to an individual. Evidence Code section 956.5, which relates to the evidentiary attorney-client privilege, sets forth a similar express exception. Although a member is not permitted to reveal confidential information concerning a client's past, completed criminal acts, the policy favoring the preservation of human life that underlies this exception to the duty of confidentiality and the evidentiary privilege permits disclosure to prevent a future or ongoing criminal act.

 

[koa pomaikai]

The point is that by the time you tell a lawyer you've already been arrested and charged, the job of a lawyer is to bring you to justice and represent you. Context. We are talking about reporting of crimes. Lawyers cant ethically engage in covering up crimes, it doesnt work like that. That's the entire reason for the Fraud/Crime exception to Attorney/Client Privilege.

They can’t engage in the crime, or cover it up, but they can’t tell people you committed a crime, there is a huge difference.

A priest obtains the information under confidentiality, under first amendment with separation of church and state, it is also pretty much impossible to enforce.

This isn’t about a priest reporting child abuse that he sees, this is about a priest reporting on confessions made to him if it relates to child abuse, there is a huge difference.

 

[Sinister]

They can’t engage in the crime, or cover it up, but they can’t tell people you committed a crime, there is a huge difference.

A priest obtains the information under confidentiality, under first amendment with separation of church and state, it is also pretty much impossible to enforce.

This isn’t about a priest reporting child abuse that he sees, this is about a priest reporting on confessions made to him if it relates to child abuse, there is a huge difference.

In most jurisdictions in the US, mandatory reporting laws regarding child abuse and neglect, the context of this thread, trumps even attorney client privilege. So there is ample legal precedent for requiring reporting of any child abuse or neglect learned via communication, in confidentiality.

 

[nostradumbass]

Lets go down a different avenue. We both agree there isnt total religious freedom in this country. Where do you draw the line? You personally.

You cant claim you draw it where ever the courts do you just condemned courts for charging parents who opposed gender transition.

The line for general religious freedom is things that are illegal across the board. Obviously they can't perform human sacrifice or set their own marriage age or do anything else that is illegal for everybody.

Reporting abuse in particular, that would be at preventing imminent risk of death or serious harm, and they can't actively cover up or hide evidence of any crime.

My problem with the law obviously isn't the high end or extreme cases of physical abuse or sexual abuse, yeah, report those, it's that it isn't limited to those and includes vaguely defined judgement calls of emotional abuse or neglect

 

[AZ103]

The line for general religious freedom is things that are illegal across the board. Obviously they can't perform human sacrifice or set their own marriage age or do anything else that is illegal for everybody.

Reporting abuse in particular, that would be at preventing imminent risk of death or serious harm, and they can't actively cover up or hide evidence of any crime.

My problem with the law obviously isn't the high end or extreme cases of physical abuse or sexual abuse, yeah, report those, it's that it isn't limited to those and includes vaguely defined judgement calls of emotional abuse or neglect

If im reading this correctly you do think the clergy should report abuse to prevent death or serious harm?

Neglect can be every bit as bad or even worse than other forms of abuse. We had a foster child in my family who didnt know how to eat. He was 5 years old ingesting formula through his nose. He was wildly underweight, barely had hair (i hate to make this comparison but think gollum from LOTR), and he was practically feral he didnt speak at all. We also fosterd other children whose parents were too busy going out getting high to feed or raise their kids.

Things get fuzzy if youre letting people make judgment calls about what is and isnt abuse. I have a USA wrestling card and youre told to report even just rumors. The point is to let an investigation uncover the truth rather than let one individual make a judgment call. I think clergy should be held to that standard as well.

 

[DoctorTaco]

This isn’t about a priest reporting child abuse that he sees, this is about a priest reporting on confessions made to him if it relates to child abuse, there is a huge difference.

What’s that huge difference exactly?

 

[koa pomaikai]

What’s that huge difference exactly?

One is a confession obtained under the guise of confidentiality, the other isn’t.

This law would likely make it that people just don’t confess to their priests.

 

[Soggust]

This law would likely make it that people just don’t confess to their priests.

Couldn't we make that argument for all mandatory reporters?

 

[koa pomaikai]

Couldn't we make that argument for all mandatory reporters?

No, because most mandatory reporters aren’t getting confessions from the perpetrator.

They might witness scars on the child, or a child could say something that makes them suspect something, or the child just straight up tells the person about the abuse.

It usually isn’t the perpetrator going… yeah I abuse kids.

 

[N13]

Back in the day, the Jesuits used the confessionals as a form of surveillance.

 

[Soggust]

No, because most mandatory reporters aren’t getting confessions from the perpetrator.

They might witness scars on the child, or a child could say something that makes them suspect something, or the child just straight up tells the person about the abuse.

It usually isn’t the perpetrator going… yeah I abuse kids.

I actually agree with you overall, but I feel that's true in both cases.

Meaning - Do we honestly think abusers are rushing to confessional for repentance with a significant frequency? Certainly not frequently enough (with enough genuine repentance) that it would justify systemically shielding them from mandatory reporting laws, right?

Because this proposed change covers the same situation of little Johnny telling the pastor about his creepy uncle as well - which I agree with you is the much more common case.

 

[DoctorTaco]

One is a confession obtained under the guise of confidentiality, the other isn’t.

This law would likely make it that people just don’t confess to their priests.

People admit things to mandatory reporters all the time. Right now priests are turning in zero child abusers. If this law helped any children whatsoever then it is a net positive.

 

[ermac88]

Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.

Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.

Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.

Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.

Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.

Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.

Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.

Republican racist phile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.

Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.

Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.

Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

Republican Congressman Donald “Buz” Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.

Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.

Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.

Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.

Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.

Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.

Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.

Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. “Republican Marty”), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.

Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.

Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.

Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.

Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.

Republican anti-gay activist Earl “Butch” Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.

Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.

Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.

Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.

Republican politician Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).

Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was charged with sexual misconduct involving a 15-year old girl.

Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child.

Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.

Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.

Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.

Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.

Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.

Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.

Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.

Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a “good military man” and “church goer,” was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.

Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.

Republican director of the “Young Republican Federation” Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.

Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was charged with rape for allegedly paying a 15-year old girl for sex. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.

Dennis Hastert served as Republican Speaker of the House (so, 3rd in line for the Presidency) for all 8 years of W. Bush’s two terms. He also sexually molested at least 5 boys when he was a HS wrestling coach, all of them underage with the youngest victim being 14. The victims only finally saw justice when Hastert was caught by the FBI trying to falsify payments for hush money.

Anton “Tony” Lazzaro, a former Republican donor and political strategist from Minnesota, was convicted in March 2023 on federal charges of sex trafficking minors. He was found guilty of conspiring to recruit and pay teenage girls, aged 15 and 16, for sex between May and December 2020. In August 2023, Lazzaro was sentenced to 21 years in prison for these offenses.Prior to his arrest, Lazzaro was a prominent figure in Minnesota Republican circles, donating over $270,000 to various Republican campaigns and political committees. His indictment led to significant turmoil within the Minnesota Republican Party, culminating in the resignation of then-party chair

Donald Trump walked into Miss Teen USA change rooms with girls as young as 14 changing. 26 women have spoken publicly about Trump’s pattern of sexual assault. In 2023, he was found legally liable for the sexual battery of E. Jean Carroll by unanimous jury.



this is just the tip of the iceberg with the party of peter files and peter file protectors.

God damn!!!!

This needs to be pinned


Its always the most VOCAL. ALWAYS!


Against gays; up in a gas station bathroom getting busy with another man.

Against immigrants; employing illegals for service work.

Against ped0phelia; but now, defending ped0s at GREAT lengths!



Sheer unbridled HYPOCRISY !

 

[ermac88]

Its just time for all these maga people to come clean with their deviance and criminal urges-

Republican who introduced Trump derangement syndrome bill arrested for soliciting a minor​

Republican who introduced Trump derangement syndrome bill arrested for soliciting a minor

Minnesota state senator Justin Eichorn allegedly traveled to meet a 17-year-old he thought he’d met online, but was instead a cop posing as minor

www.theguardian.com

 

[LostMyBlackBelt]

MAGA = kiddie fuckers

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

lol you fell for it again.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

MAGA = kiddie fuckers

this website is ran by morons.