Opinion The trade of your freedom/liberty for a more police/secure state?

LeonardoBjj

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- What's your guys opinions of this?

Every societ trades a little or much of their freedom, since the dawn of societs as we know, in old Rome they had the *vigiles (in modern world, having a camera registering all our movements 24/7), so as a city or contrie grows numeraly and economicaly, the first thing to develop is the crime, only them, there will be investiment on security. Police is a very important pillar of living in a societ, even other animals have their own type of policing, like shepherd dogs taking care of sheeps, or a animal that keeps his sight on the babis of their species. Is a natural and "simple" way of protection.

Vigiles. Vigiles or more properly the Vigiles Urbani ("watchmen of the City") or Cohortes Vigilum ("cohorts of the watchmen") were the firefighters and police of ancient Rome.

The thing is living in a more secure societ has a trade off of some freedoms, you get a Loss prevention officer following you at a store, because some people cant resist the urge of stealing. Since i love Winona Ryder, i obviously aint talking about her.
That's the trade off, having the freedom of looking at produts that interest you, or going to a massage parlour, without a google app identifying your car plate!.

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We pass to accepet those more invasive policing tatics as a part of existing in a more secure societ. We pass to accepet the autorities views, and i dont relegate those to the police only, but politicians, and since this is politics, their owners, the rich's to impose their views on the rest. But those the richs, also sacrifice their freedom, to have the pleasure of walking their dogs down the streets, theres maybe a security guard at every doorstep.

Our datas and every step is registered on a gauging cybernetic world of information, than some people can even acess, sometimes paying, atnother times not!

And since informations and knowledge are power, the knowledge that we as humans pocess a very clear chain of needs, and the need of protection and security, security for us, our family and pets, or neighborns, there isnt a clear need of developing a long lasting sense of security, or that would mean the decreasing need of the policing state and the concentration of power in some hands.

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The unprecedented concentration of capital at the global level has cemented the financial power of a transnational corporate elite that uses its economic power to wield political influence and control states. In 2018, just 17 global financial conglomerates collectively managed $41.1 trillion, more than half the GDP of the entire planet.

Policing brings in theory order and safety(i know some of you hippies would point when thats doesnt happen). Police is a very important deterent of crime, and thats includ private security, that 's why your so loved i shoot the cop rappers, or annoying music stars like Madonna, go lieve in gated comunities with private policing. Cops are also safety workers(i know, captain obviously), they're usually the first responders in the case a babie chokes with food, or a grandpa falls in the bathroom. The cops importance go well beyond preveting your loved pussy ass criminals of kicking your ass, and raping your loved ones, that includes your pet dogs.

Police-Public Contacts survey shows that that more than a quarter of the adult population (26%)had one or more involuntary contacts with the police in the preceding year (Langton & Durose,2013). A survey of Chicago public school students found that approximately half had beenstopped, questioned, and “told off or told to move on” by ninth or tenth grade (Shedd, 2015).Evidence from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth shows that by age 18, the cumulativearrest prevalence rates1range from 30.2-41.4% (Brame et al., 2012, 2014). Data from a newpopulation-based survey of urban teens indicate that more than 20% report personal experiencewith the police, and 75% report knowing someone with police contact or witnessing a police stop(Geller, 2018).
At the same time, police are an important deterrent of crime (Durlauf & Nagin, 2011),though the empirical link between the presence of police and specific policing tactics is uncertainand contingent on the policing tactics applied. Beyond crime control, police also provideimportant services that go well beyond their primary crime control mission. Police are often firstresponders in a variety of circumstances, from fire and safety to responding to emotionallydisturbed persons or family crises, tasks that take an emotional and psychological toll on police(Marmar et al., 2006; Rando et al., 2015). Police can also play a key role in the legalsocialization of residents of the cities (Justice and Meares, 2014; :eek::eek::eek:an & Tyler, 2005; Tyler &:eek::eek::eek:an, 2008; Tyler, :eek::eek::eek:an, & Geller, 2014). Residents who have positive experiences with the police, in which they feel they have been treated fairly and respectfully, tend to place more trustin the police as an institution, which in turn, has the potential to increase police-public cooperation, and encourage citizen participation in the production of public safety (Meares, 2014Fagan & Tyler, 2005; Kirk & Papachristos, 2011). Yet here too is a seeming contradiction:whatever the returns of policing to public safety, there may also be incursions on dignity andprivacy that for many can produce mental health symptoms including trauma, anxiety and stigma(Geller, :eek::eek::eek:an, Tyler and Link, 2014; Sewell and Jefferson, 2016; Sewell, Jefferson, and Lee,2016).
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So how much of your freedom you're willing to trade for a more secure life?

https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3093&context=faculty_scholarship
https://truthout.org/articles/a-glo...ing-as-world-capitalism-descends-into-crisis/
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a...lent-crime-the-numbers-tell-a-different-story
 
Didn't read, but If its secure borders then yes, i don't mind some freedoms like the freedom to not require REAL ID to vote. We should all have to use REAL ID to vote. If you disagree, you are either not a US citizen, or mentally ill.
 
I don’t view it as either or.

I don’t immediately conflate secure with police state or loss of freedom. Atleast not in the way I think you mean it.
 
That's a very general post with no details so there is no way to answer.

List some freedoms that need to ve given up for what security.
 
I dont like to give up my freedoms for a more security because the majority of my interactions with law enforcement here in Brazil have not been good. It's not an indictment on law enforcement, but I've seem too many guys having power trips when they put the uniform on.
Outside of my interactions, I had an internship on a government building here that also had a police battalion, I would take the same bus home that some officers would take. I've overheard guys bragging to so many nasty stuff.

Plus, I had an uncle that I never met.. went missing back in the military dictatorship days. So... not my couple of tea
 
That's a very general post with no details so there is no way to answer.

List some freedoms that need to ve given up for what security.
a very simple and common one is being stopped and frisked constantly
 
- What's your guys opinions of this?

Every societ trades a little or much of their freedom, since the dawn of societs as we know, in old Rome they had the *vigiles (in modern world, having a camera registering all our movements 24/7), so as a city or contrie grows numeraly and economicaly, the first thing to develop is the crime, only them, there will be investiment on security. Police is a very important pillar of living in a societ, even other animals have their own type of policing, like shepherd dogs taking care of sheeps, or a animal that keeps his sight on the babis of their species. Is a natural and "simple" way of protection.



The thing is living in a more secure societ has a trade off of some freedoms, you get a Loss prevention officer following you at a store, because some people cant resist the urge of stealing. Since i love Winona Ryder, i obviously aint talking about her.
That's the trade off, having the freedom of looking at produts that interest you, or going to a massage parlour, without a google app identifying your car plate!.

2620861275_6647bfcac1_z.jpg

We pass to accepet those more invasive policing tatics as a part of existing in a more secure societ. We pass to accepet the autorities views, and i dont relegate those to the police only, but politicians, and since this is politics, their owners, the rich's to impose their views on the rest. But those the richs, also sacrifice their freedom, to have the pleasure of walking their dogs down the streets, theres maybe a security guard at every doorstep.

Our datas and every step is registered on a gauging cybernetic world of information, than some people can even acess, sometimes paying, atnother times not!

And since informations and knowledge are power, the knowledge that we as humans pocess a very clear chain of needs, and the need of protection and security, security for us, our family and pets, or neighborns, there isnt a clear need of developing a long lasting sense of security, or that would mean the decreasing need of the policing state and the concentration of power in some hands.

3167121925_b035fc4c53_z.jpg




Policing brings in theory order and safety(i know some of you hippies would point when thats doesnt happen). Police is a very important deterent of crime, and thats includ private security, that 's why your so loved i shoot the cop rappers, or annoying music stars like Madonna, go lieve in gated comunities with private policing. Cops are also safety workers(i know, captain obviously), they're usually the first responders in the case a babie chokes with food, or a grandpa falls in the bathroom. The cops importance go well beyond preveting your loved pussy ass criminals of kicking your ass, and raping your loved ones, that includes your pet dogs.



4529298631_05a06c7b04_c.jpg


So how much of your freedom you're willing to trade for a more secure life?

https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3093&context=faculty_scholarship
https://truthout.org/articles/a-glo...ing-as-world-capitalism-descends-into-crisis/
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a...lent-crime-the-numbers-tell-a-different-story
If it means I have to give up my firearm then sure why not. It will make the country a much better place.
 
You can give up “your” firearm any time you want, just don’t tell others what to do with theirs.
Just think how much safer we all would be. Certainly if there is a gun in the home someone living there is more likely to be shot.

Actually, like 90% of the time it's men doing the shooting. We could just ban men from having guns if that makes you feel better.
 
Just think how much safer we all would be. Certainly if there is a gun in the home someone living there is more likely to be shot.

Actually, like 90% of the time it's men doing the shooting. We could just ban men from having guns if that makes you feel better.
Yeah, great idea just ban law abiding men from having them so that only the criminal men who won’t follow the law anyway have them. Genius.
 
The ship of whether or not to give up your freedom for security has failed a long time ago, today the questions either are you willing to give up your freedoms so that those you disagree with politically are silenced or are you willing to give up your economic freedom so we can tax away the bad climate.... and the answer to those seems to be a resounding yes.
 
a very simple and common one is being stopped and frisked constantly

Yea no unless they have reasonable suspicion or for officer safety in a legal stop. Or if you are on parole.
 
Didn't read, but If its secure borders then yes, i don't mind some freedoms like the freedom to not require REAL ID to vote. We should all have to use REAL ID to vote. If you disagree, you are either not a US citizen, or mentally ill.
I don't disagree, but the amount of logical fallacies here is astounding lol.
 
Just think how much safer we all would be. Certainly if there is a gun in the home someone living there is more likely to be shot.

Actually, like 90% of the time it's men doing the shooting. We could just ban men from having guns if that makes you feel better.
 

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