the TPP moves on, better for everyone, as America wants back in

JosephDredd

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http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/29...uck-with-that-trans-pacific-partnership-asia/

The U.S. Wants Back in the TPP? Good Luck With That.

Asia is moving on without America when it comes to trade — and could be better off for it.



More than a year after withdrawing from a big Asia-Pacific trade pact, the Trump administration keeps talking about rejoining it on its own terms. But the Asia-Pacific countries that were eager a year ago to hold the door open for the United States are now busy building their own trading order — without Washington at all.

...

Earlier this month, speaking in Chile, Mnuchin said Washington would “definitely” be open to rejoining the pact — once all the administration’s other trade deals were taken care of, and provided the trade accord could be rewritten to be more beneficial to the United States. (U.S. trade officials declined to say what those revised conditions might be.)

And Larry Kudlow, a former television commentator who was named Trump’s top economic adviser, said this month that the United States could lead a “trade coalition of the willing” to counter China’s trade heft and abuses — almost the very definition of the TPP that Trump walked away from early in his presidency.

But that ship seems to have sailed. The remaining 11 countries from the original TPP signed a slightly slimmed-down version of the accord earlier this month in Chile, suspending a score of controversial provisions that the United States had insisted upon.
Member countries are already in the process of ratifying the deal, which could go into effect early next year.

...

“Is there a chance in hell anyone wants to reopen the thing to get the U.S. back in? Not under a Trump administration,” says Mike Callaghan, a former Australian Treasury official and economic advisor to the prime minister, now at the Lowy Institute, a Sydney-based think tank.

That’s partly because many countries in the Asia-Pacific region are already inking new, ambitious trade deals left and right even as the Trump administration struggles to tweak existing pacts such as the North American Free Trade Agreement and the free trade deal with South Korea.

...

The revised TPP — now formally known as the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership — is smaller and leaner than the original accord. Without the United States, it covers only between 13 and 18 percent of the global economy, rather than 40 percent. That will mean smaller trade benefits for everybody.

But the new TPP is also an easier pill for many Asia-Pacific nations to swallow, which should make ratification and longer-term support easier to secure. Gone for now are 22 provisions that U.S. negotiators had insisted on but that were unpopular with potential partners. Those included protections for pharmaceuticals, longer patents and extended copyrights, and some extra protections for corporations against national governments.

“Almost by definition, the suspended parts cover topics that were controversial to the TPP-11 members, otherwise they would not have been suspended,” Callaghan says.

...

For other countries, like Australia, joining the TPP alongside the United States in the first place, or coaxing Washington back in, is not ultimately about trade; Canberra already has a free trade pact with the United States. Rather, Callaghan says, it’s about making sure the United States stays engaged in the Asia-Pacific region as China flexes its economic and military might.

“For Australia, the driving force behind the TPP was not so much access to the U.S. market as locking the U.S. into the Asian region,” he says.

For Cutler, who saw previous Congresses and presidents change their minds on trade pacts they once vilified, the mere fact that Trump administration officials keep talking about rejoining the TPP is encouraging. U.S. presence in the pact would advance many of the administration’s professed goals, she says, from prying open Asian markets to pushing back against China’s heft. And ratifying a big trade deal would only require one bruising battle with Congress, while a series of bilateral trade deals will mean going back to the Hill again and again.

“It’s important that the United States makes positive signals, compared with a year ago,” Cutler says. “Over time, they might come to understand the value” in the trade pact.

It's interesting to me that everyone had accepted unbalanced provisions favouring America only to have Idiot "they treat us so badly" Trump spike the deal. Fast forward a year and everyone is happy to have ditched the provisions while the White House is talking about slinking back.

The full article is available at the link. One part I cut out explained that other nations are beginning to ask about joining the TPP and if the TPP reaches 16 member nations then the financial benefits will be greater than the original deal with America.

There's been some disagreement on this board about whether or not the TPP was intended to reign in China's influence with the Belt and Road Initiative; this article is just one more of many that says that, yes, that was one of the goals of the TPP.
 
http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/29...uck-with-that-trans-pacific-partnership-asia/



It's interesting to me that everyone had accepted unbalanced provisions favouring America only to have Idiot "they treat us so badly" Trump spike the deal. Fast forward a year and everyone is happy to have ditched the provisions while the White House is talking about slinking back.

The full article is available at the link. One part I cut out explained that other nations are beginning to ask about joining the TPP and if the TPP reaches 16 member nations then the financial benefits will be greater than the original deal with America.

There's been some disagreement on this board about whether or not the TPP was intended to reign in China's influence with the Belt and Road Initiative; this article is just one more of many that says that, yes, that was one of the goals of the TPP.

Why are we trying to counter China's belt and road initiative by containment?

That seems very stupid, and very flawed. I would think our counter to China's new silk road should be increasing our infastructure investment.

Of course that is the dirty little secret isn't it? That free trade is rather conditional, and anything but free.
 
Why are we trying to counter China's belt and road initiative by containment?

That seems very stupid, and very flawed. I would think our counter to China's new silk road should be increasing our infastructure investment.

Of course that is the dirty little secret isn't it? That free trade is rather conditional, and anything but free.

Can you explain what you mean?
 
Why are we trying to counter China's belt and road initiative by containment?

That seems very stupid, and very flawed. I would think our counter to China's new silk road should be increasing our infastructure investment.

Of course that is the dirty little secret isn't it? That free trade is rather conditional, and anything but free.
{<huh}
 
Can you explain what you mean?

TPP is meant to contain China's regional influence. That is a fool's errand. Containment isn't an option, which means you have to outcompete them. Novel idea in capitalism, I know.......

If China is investing in cheaper transportation of goods, we should do the same. In fact, I think drone delivery, and 3-D printing, may make the idea of a massive investment like the silk road, outdated. Not to say you don't need roads, just that the ROI might not be there.
 
The problem with discussing the TPP on this board is it's very complicated and people just discuss it emotionally or with an agenda. It's like, why don't we discuss the nuances of brain surgery?
 
TPP is meant to contain China's regional influence. That is a fool's errand. Containment isn't an option, which means you have to outcompete them. Novel idea in capitalism, I know.......

If China is investing in cheaper transportation of goods, we should do the same. In fact, I think drone delivery, and 3-D printing, may make the idea of a massive investment like the silk road, outdated. Not to say you don't need roads, just that the ROI might not be there.

Wha?

Your first post stated countering The Silk Road with infrastructure investment then your 2nd post veers off into drone delivery and 3D printing (that's not infrastructure btw) as options...

Explain yourself again and try to make sense this time...
 
Wha?

Your first post stated countering The Silk Road with infrastructure investment then your 2nd post veers off into drone delivery and 3D printing (that's not infrastructure btw) as options...

Explain yourself again and try to make sense this time...

How is 3-D printing and drone delivery not goods delivery infastructure?

3-D printers, and drones don't magically appear.
 
The problem with discussing the TPP on this board is it's very complicated and people just discuss it emotionally or with an agenda. It's like, why don't we discuss the nuances of brain surgery?
Or gun control.
 
Or gun control.
Well that's different right? I don't think that issue is highly technical like the TPP, but I do take your point that lots of people are talking out of their asses on that issue too.
 
So much ambiguity.

The article is from the CFR, biggest cheerleaders of globalism to be dominated by the elite, but lets put that aside.


This idea that China is going to become this bastion of Asian economic freedom is silly.


No one really likes China, certainly not their neighbors, infact the other major parties in the area are quite hostile to them. (Japan, Russia, India, SK and Vietnam) .
They have no intention of helping China become the ruler of Asia.

Historically, China has always been pretty awful at building allies, and still is.

They deal with China because it's in their interest, for now.

China will continue to be looted for their cheap labor and lack of regulations until they can't be exploited anymore. And at that time Multinationals will pack their bags, leaving China in a social-economic and environmental mess. China also has a 100+ million people just waiting on the chance to break free from a country they don't see themselves belonging to.
 
Can you explain what you mean?


Wha?

Your first post stated countering The Silk Road with infrastructure investment then your 2nd post veers off into drone delivery and 3D printing (that's not infrastructure btw) as options...

Explain yourself again and try to make sense this time...

pointing-and-laughing.gif
 
They can... if you have a 3D printer.

Step 1. Buy a 3-D printer
Step 2. Use 3-D printer to print a another 3-D printer.
Step 3. Return first printer for a refund.
Step 4. Free printer!
 
Step 1. Buy a 3-D printer
Step 2. Use 3-D printer to print a another 3-D printer.
Step 3. Return first printer for a refund.
Step 4. Free printer!

Finally, a plan that doesn't involve me stealing underpants!
 
Well that's different right? I don't think that issue is highly technical like the TPP, but I do take your point that lots of people are talking out of their asses on that issue too.
Thank you for seeing my point on that and I agree, TPP is much more involved of a discussion.
 

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