Bagwork The Side Kick has the highest force output on the bag

Intermission said:
It is not the same thing with swinging kicks. They have more speed and don't need full extensions.

the studies used expert level practioners or above and the highest peak output was from the Side kick.

A non spinning back kick means your back is towards the opponent, that would never happen in sparring. Sparring is dynamic
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Your swinging kicks would also have their power significantly decreased without full extension. It will still have some impact but not full power. Back kick, side kick and many others are the same. I can still hit a very power full back kick or side kick from inches away.

The studies are useless. The first I look up (Pedzich 2006) has only 5 participants with rankings of green to 1st degree black.
Even at 1st degree most people are still learning how to use their back kick. I still agree with you early on side kick is most peoples strongest but this will change after 5-10 years if you work a proper back kick.
 
Ginja_Ninja said:
Your swinging kicks would also have their power significantly decreased without full extension. It will still have some impact but not full power. Back kick, side kick and many others are the same. I can still hit a very power full back kick or side kick from inches away.
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It matters less for power if a roundhouse kick is fully extended or not.
 
Intermission said:
Back kick in traditional, ITF Taekwondo is this. So more or less a side kick. We dont distinguish between back kick and back side kicks
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Yes, this is what I mean. You will notice that this guy does not over rotate the shoulders and is still somewhat backwards on impact. He also shoots his hip a bit more to get the reach. Nice kick

Yes the two kicks that I would call back kick and spinning side kick are very similar. I much prefer the back kick version.
 
Ginja_Ninja said:
Yes, this is what I mean. You will notice that this guy does not over rotate the shoulders
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Okey then That's hair splitting. I threw a full rotational because I felt like doing a side kick. Same kick fundamentally, just more or less rotation
 
Ginja_Ninja said:
The studies are useless. The first I look up (Pedzich 2006) has only 5 participants with rankings of green to 1st degree black.
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The highest measured kick in that graph was a side kick and was a little bit higher but similar to a back kick
 
Intermission said:
The highest measured kick in that graph was a side kick and was a little bit higher but similar to a back kick
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The study was 5 guys with 2-5 years experience. The results don't surprise me that much. Do the same study with people who have been training for much longer and the results will be not be the same.
 
Intermission said:
Okey then That's hair splitting. I threw a full rotational because I felt like doing a side kick. Same kick fundamentally, just more or less rotation
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Turning side kick and back kick are very similar looking but the difference is huge. I wouldn't say they are fundamentally the same. Over rotating takes away a lot of the effectiveness of the kick.
 
Ginja_Ninja said:
Turning side kick and back kick are very similar looking but the difference is huge. I wouldn't say they are fundamentally the same. Over rotating takes away a lot of the effectiveness of the kick.
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You can't say it's overrotated if the purpose is to throw a side kick
 
Anyway, Joe Lewis believed the side kick to be the most powerful and my clip speaks for itself

At any rate higher force than the roundhouse kick, which surprises me.
 
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Intermission said:
You can't say it's overrotated if the purpose is to throw a side kick
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Ok additional rotation then.

Listen, don't take offense. I'm not trying to insult you here, you got some decent power in your side kicks. Keep it up

I do highly suggest working a nice straight back kick. It will have more power and be more effective in sparring when you get it down. If you want some help with it, let me know.
 
Ginja_Ninja said:
It will have more power
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I disagree. Additional rotation increases power as a general principle, and I dont see why it would be an exception for a spinning side kick.

It is a much more difficult pull off though.
 
Intermission said:
I disagree. Additional rotation increases power as a general principle, and I dont see why it would be an exception for a spinning side kick.

It is a much more difficult pull off though.i
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As a general purpose it does add power but rotating to a side kick chamber brings different muscle groups into play. A side kick does not utilize the glutes and hamstrings to the same degree. Also while the rotation of a spinning side kick does add some rotational power, the reduced spin of a back kick allows you to thrust your hip/weight directly at the target as opposed to spinning through the kick.
 
Ginja_Ninja said:
As a general purpose it does add power but rotating to a side kick chamber brings different muscle groups into play. A side kick does not utilize the glutes and hamstrings to the same degree. Also while the rotation of a spinning side kick does add some rotational power, the reduced spin of a back kick allows you to thrust your hip/weight directly at the target as opposed to spinning through the kick.
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You might be right, it's hard to know how the match checks out. But it is a more advanced excercise so there is a point in training it.
 
Ginja_Ninja said:
These numbers mean nothing. There have been lots of skewed studies over the years. I 100% agree with you that sidekick would start out being the strongest kick (that is where you get these stats) but a PROPERLY trained back kick will surpass that over time. For beginners and novice sidekick may be a stronger kick but your back kick is the one with the most potential for maximum impact.
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I agree with you the back kick imo is the strongest kick period, how many times can you name in mma where a side kick has finished a fight just that technique on its own because I can't think of any. How many times has a back kick ended a fight on it's own I can think of more than a few Loiseau against Mccarthy, Jones/Stipe, Hall/Mousasi, Siver/Mohr and more I can't think of at the moment.
 
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