The Rise of Carla Esparza

[dogsdonutsdragons]

If there's anyone that can do it better than Andrade, it's Carla.



Rose being sent to Hades by Carla any day now..

rose has some really off moments and they have resulted in her loses but when shes on shes on and the best there is. carla can beat her.will be a fun fight

 

[dogsdonutsdragons]

Carla is definitely not capable of doing something like that. I don't think people understand how strong Andrade actually is. She was massive for 115, which can be proven by the simple fact that she has had fights not just at 125 but at 135 as well lol.

there are some girls in the ufc who don't identify as female in their private life and i feel this could potentially be an issue for obvious reasons.

 

[jx820]

I mean who do you put ahead of her?
Nunes, Shev, Rousey, maybe Joanna. That's it.

She's 4 or 5 for me.

I'd go Nunes, Rousey, Joanna, Shevchenko, Cyborg as my top 5.

Rose would make my top 10 for sure but we're talking about a 3.5 weight class side of the sport and only one division that's been meaningful for a full decade. How deep does the discussion of the greats have to go for a history that shallow? I don't think we need to lower the bar to the point that 2 non-consecutive defenses puts a fighter in the Mt Rushmore discussion.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

I'd go Nunes, Rousey, Joanna, Shevchenko, Cyborg as my top 5.

Rose would make my top 10 for sure but we're talking about a 3.5 weight class side of the sport and only one division that's been meaningful for a full decade. How deep does the discussion of the greats have to go for a history that shallow? I don't think we need to lower the bar to the point that 2 non-consecutive defenses puts a fighter in the Mt Rushmore discussion.

Cyborgs a drug cheat and a can crusher. No way.

 

[jx820]

Cyborgs a drug cheat and a can crusher. No way.

Everybody's a drug cheat, and she beat who they asked.

Even If took her off the list, I still wouldn't lower that bar to say a pair of non-consecutive defenses is goat level stuff. I'd just shorten my goat list.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

Everybody's a drug cheat, and she beat who they asked.

Even If took her off the list, I still wouldn't lower that bar to say a pair of non-consecutive defenses is goat level stuff. I'd just shorten my goat list.

No, not everyone is a drug cheat. That's a very jaded viewpoint.

 

[Mike]

Carla earned the shot, but if she wins it'll be by LNP. She's not ragdolling and slamming anyone around lmao. Carla doesn't have that kind of raw strength.

 

[Mike]

Everybody's a drug cheat, and she beat who they asked.

Even If took her off the list, I still wouldn't lower that bar to say a pair of non-consecutive defenses is goat level stuff. I'd just shorten my goat list.

No. People that got caught cheating using PEDs are drug cheats. Its hardly fair to apply the same label to people that were never found to be cheating.

A coping mechanism often used by people that want to downplay cheating because they are fans of cheaters.

 

[jitzmonkey]

Running what division? Miesha won the belt in a fight she was losing until locking in a hail mary rear-naked at the end of the fifth and didn't defend it once.

This brings up an interesting question.

Doesn't a title defense occur when a Champion puts their title on the line during a sanctioned fight?

Didn't Miesha unsuccessfully defend (yet defend and not relinquish) her title against Nunes, while Germain De Randamie was stripped of her 145 FW belt when she refused to defend against Cyborg?

Further, is a successful title defense one in which the champion coming in also leaves with the belt?

 

[Ghostoftheville]

Rousey ran the division. Miesha was a pioneer for women but that doesn’t make her more accomplished or more skilled than Rose

Tate won the Strikeforce 135 title before Rose had her 2nd amateur bout. Tate was putting in the work to establish herself as a top female fighter way before Rose was doing anything of note.

Rose has not been tested against a top grappler since fighting Carla, the best she has faced is a toss up between PVZ and Andrade, who she's lost to once and had a paper thin split decision over in the rematch. She's an entertaining, obviously one of the better fighters around but she's inconsistent and untested

 

[randumo24]

I'd go Nunes, Rousey, Joanna, Shevchenko, Cyborg as my top 5.

Rose would make my top 10 for sure but we're talking about a 3.5 weight class side of the sport and only one division that's been meaningful for a full decade. How deep does the discussion of the greats have to go for a history that shallow? I don't think we need to lower the bar to the point that 2 non-consecutive defenses puts a fighter in the Mt Rushmore discussion.

You apparently value a title streak WELL over the actual quality of competition they beat. Even though Nunes proved how outclassed Rousey & Cyborg were when they actually faced skilled competition.

Still quite naïve of you to believe that a title streak is worth more than the quality of opponents you beat. A lot of fighters would be able to go on title streaks if they got to face weak competition. It's not exactly Rose's fault she's faced the most stacked competition relatively to any champion you can possibly think of since winning her first championship. Literally, counting her first title fight, her last 6 fights have been against the other best 3 fighters in her division's history. She has come out of that stretch with a 5-1 record.

 

[jx820]

No, not everyone is a drug cheat. That's a very jaded viewpoint.

I'd call it cynical, but not wrong.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

Tate won the Strikeforce 135 title before Rose had her 2nd amateur bout. Tate was putting in the work to establish herself as a top female fighter way before Rose was doing anything of note.

Rose has not been tested against a top grappler since fighting Carla, the best she has faced is a toss up between PVZ and Andrade, who she's lost to once and had a paper thin split decision over in the rematch. She's an entertaining, obviously one of the better fighters around but she's inconsistent and untested

The fact that Miesha is older than Rose and has been in the game longer is totally irrelevant. Rose has accomplished more, won more titles and fought better competition to win them.

Rose has surpassed Miesha.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

I'd call it cynical, but not wrong.

I would. You cant assume guilt on clean fighters, and put them on the same level as proven drug cheaters. It's unethical.

 

[Mike]

This brings up an interesting question.

Doesn't a title defense occur when a Champion puts their title on the line during a sanctioned fight?

Didn't Miesha unsuccessfully defend (yet defend and not relinquish) her title against Nunes, while Germain De Randamie was stripped of her 145 FW belt when she refused to defend against Cyborg?

Further, is a successful title defense one in which the champion coming in also leaves with the belt?

No.

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

No. People that got caught cheating using PEDs are drug cheats. Its hardly fair to apply the same label to people that were never found to be cheating.

A coping mechanism often used by people that want to downplay cheating because they are fans of cheaters.

First time I've found I've agreed with you.

 

[Mike]

First time I've found I've agreed with you.

There's a first time for everything lmao.

 

[sfer1]

Tate won the Strikeforce 135 title before Rose had her 2nd amateur bout. Tate was putting in the work to establish herself as a top female fighter way before Rose was doing anything of note.

Rose has not been tested against a top grappler since fighting Carla, the best she has faced is a toss up between PVZ and Andrade, who she's lost to once and had a paper thin split decision over in the rematch. She's an entertaining, obviously one of the better fighters around but she's inconsistent and untested

So, you're whole argument rests on Miesha being older and beating cans when WMMA was still in diapers.

Miesha has looked mediocre against every single decent opponent she's faced.

 

[jx820]

You apparently value a title streak WELL over the actual quality of competition they beat. Even though Nunes proved how outclassed Rousey & Cyborg were when they actually faced skilled competition.

Still quite naïve of you to believe that a title streak is worth more than the quality of opponents you beat. A lot of fighters would be able to go on title streaks if they got to face weak competition. It's not exactly Rose's fault she's faced the most stacked competition relatively to any champion you can possibly think of since winning her first championship. Literally, counting her first title fight, her last 6 fights have been against the other best 3 fighters in her division's history. She has come out of that stretch with a 5-1 record.

On point one, I do. Because it's the most important thing. That's the metric in this sport.

On point two you're kidding yourself. The division hasn't gone through some wild overhaul. The #1 contender today is the woman Joanna won the belt from. The #1 contender at 125 is a woman Joanna defended against. Joanna beat both of the women that beat Rose in title fights as well as every other woman who's ever beaten Rose. The biggest and most important difference is Joanna defended against fighters coming off of wins. Rose hasn't done that yet.

Rose may someday win 4 fights in a row. She may defend against someone who's on a winning streak or someone she hasn't already beaten. I'm not denying her her due. I'm just saying she's a middle of the pack champion not a female GSP. If someday she is, I'll be happy for her. I hope she becomes one of the greats. I'm just not going to pretend that winning 4 of 6 title fights with 2 non-consecutive defenses is GOAT status stuff.

 

[jx820]

I would. You cant assume guilt on clean fighters, and put them on the same level as proven drug cheaters. It's unethical.

That's too melodramatic by a third. I live in a free country and I can assume whatever I want.

I think it's unethical to push a faulty system that pretends to sniff out cheating while acknowledging that it has major failings. Then to pretend fighter X is cheating while fighter Y is allowed to keep doing so. I think "it's only cheating if you get caught" is a wildly unethical system.

I think the ethical approach is to assume everyone is doping and not judge anyone.

But I get it, I believed in USADA when they started it too. Unfortunately, like an unintentional metaphore for this whole conversation... it's the best protocol in the sport, just not a great one.